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Jack_Bauer
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This is an obtuse statement that appears to be one to appease the massive dissenters trying to force evolutionary theories down Catholics that reject it. That’s my perception.
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jwinch2
Guest
Take it up with the Holy Father, I guess. He seems to believe in evolution at some level as did his predecessor.
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Jack_Bauer
Guest
I’m not the one acting like I have ALL the answers and am willing to railroad anyone to get my way. SO you take it up with him. I respect him ans will not use his name so flippantly. Have more respect for the Vicar of Christ.
Besides. You have NO idea what I actually believe. I see this from every angle.
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jwinch2
Guest
So you call the Holy Father’s comments obtuse but I am supposed to take it up with him? I happen to think that the Pope’s comments were pretty much spot on so quite frankly, I have no reason to. As for using his name flippantly, I disagree strongly. I quoted him because I thought it might add something to the discussion and shed some light on his thoughts on the topic at hand. I did not offer opinion, analysis, nor use them in any way to attack you or your position.
As for the rest, I am quite sure I have no idea what you are talking about. I have contributed very few posts to this thread, prior to your comment on my quotation of Pope Benedict, I had posted exactly twice in this thread; one where I cited Blessed John Paul II and another where I cited our current Pontiff. At no time have I acted like I have all the answers nor have I railroaded anyone. I would strongly encourage you to check who you are referring to before you go on the attack. If you do so again, I will report your post to the moderation staff.
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Jack_Bauer
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My comment about saying the statement was obtuse, still stands, IMHO. It simply means that it was not precise and to the point, except to leave the door open for another day. Whether he believes in evolution or not is outside of my knowledge base. But you really didn’t have to be snarky about responding to me as you did. I responded in kind. Doesn’t feel very good, does it?
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jwinch2
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My feeling on the matter is pretty much non-existent. If you imagine in some way that your comment hurt my feelings you are giving yourself way too much credit. I simply thought you were out of line, and I still do. I’ll save you the trouble of a response as I will quietly bow out of this particular thread and let you have your fun and also, I am going to block you so I won’t see your comments anyways.
Adios.
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Jack_Bauer
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And I feel the same about you.
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coco2
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Interesting comments. I have been in classes where I have heard from the teacher’s mouth ( a priest) that Adam and Eve were not necessarily real, and that many creation stories are similar. My thought was, maybe they are all similar because they all stem from the same event.
Science is actually now proving that everyone’s DNA began in the same area in Africa. You can actually send a swatch of DNA to National Geographic and other places and they trace your DNA to see where it has been, so you can follow your ancestors throughout the world. So far, out of the millions of people they have done, everyone’s DNA starts in the same place. This seems to me to favor the creation story of Adam and Eve.
Science is actually now proving that everyone’s DNA began in the same area in Africa. You can actually send a swatch of DNA to National Geographic and other places and they trace your DNA to see where it has been, so you can follow your ancestors throughout the world. So far, out of the millions of people they have done, everyone’s DNA starts in the same place. This seems to me to favor the creation story of Adam and Eve.
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Jack_Bauer
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I recently watched a program on BBC about Homo Sapiens and Homo Erectus. They also covered Neanderthals. It makes interesting perspective. The program said that all three lived at the same time. Ironically, the next day I read an article that said “Scientist now know that…” what the BBC program said was not true. My point is that getting straight answers from opposing or contradicting theories is nearly impossible. Having worked in the academic arena, I’ve found so much arrogance in narcissists manipulating other professors to get their way, even with non-academic issues. Our chair threw a conniption fit when an associate professor went out on her own and obtained a huge grant for the GIS lab. It was dumb. The rumors from other departments were just as bazaar. Engineers (moi) are by far the worst. But, I would say that evolutionists fall under anti-God proselytizing types, except for a few that I had in my geology days. At least they acknowledge their belief in God and that they are required to teach evolutionary theory as part of the academic program.
It’s a sensitive subject to a very large population of the world. I’m fascinated by theories. But I don’t limit my faith to it, nor do I buy into everything under they latest Sun.
It’s a sensitive subject to a very large population of the world. I’m fascinated by theories. But I don’t limit my faith to it, nor do I buy into everything under they latest Sun.
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coco2
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I am Christian and a science teacher who teaches evolution in a Catholic school. I do tell the students that evolution is a theory and science is changing constantly as we learn and discover new things. There is a lot of evidence pointing towards evolution, and I see no problem with God creating Earth in His own time frame. How long is one day outside of “time”? God is more complex than we could ever imagine, how easy it is to think that He creates in a way that we can search and explore to find out more and more of His incredible creation.
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Blacksword
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It’s funny, but I actually heard an apologist, Jimmy Akin or someone, on Catholic Answers live on EWTN a few months ago who basically said the same thing about this statement: that the “it is in no way apparent” leaves the door open for theological advance on the issue of polygenism (as understood in Catholic theology) and Adam and Eve being symbolic for an original population of humans. He said that this is an issue that continues to be discussed…there was a thread on here about that radio program awhile back.
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Lui
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Neither do I. I still don’t get what your religion is based on the info of your profile.
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dskysmine
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Aren’t you guys forgetting something? There was a moment of supposed “random mutation” that “made” the first homo sapiens. It’s not like there were dozens of transformations of the hominid. The description of a first male (and female) that understood their surroundings different than other “hominids” is not that farfetched. Don’t forget that even the bible continues to say that Cain went on to make his family with someone… it could in theory be a neanderthal, for example.
I’m just guessing here…
I’m just guessing here…
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Ahimsa
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Good point, but let’s say that we can p(name removed by moderator)oint when this first “human-mutation” occurred, leading to the birth of the first human. Now, was this first human male or female? Biologically, it could have been either gender.
We can take this further. What if the first human was actually a set of twins? Male and female, non-identical twins, who both had this first “human-mutation”: that would certainly help explain why Eve was made from Adam’s rib – because the rib-story would be a symbol for the fact that they grew in the same womb at the same time.
The possibilities are endless.
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Jack_Bauer
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That’s odd. I speak Pratholox. Protestant - Catholic - Orthodox.
All that needs to be known is my Catholicity. left as one, came back as five. My wife and oldest son converted to Catholicism with me reverting. Our 2 little ones are now baptized Catholics. I baptized my oldest son. I used to be a seriously fundamentalist/evangelical with a touch of Catholic. But I believed Catholics were condemned to hell by their rejection of truth. I thought the Church was a lie and joined a Church I believe was in fact the true Church. The reason is that I was not raised Catholic. My mother was very anti-Catholic and loved to fill me full of huge lies. My dad was a fundamentalist Catholic, which I’ve discovered many on this board. He taught me that most priests and bishops would go to hell. He taught me that all non-Catholics would in fact go to hell. And after many of the illicit things I’ve witnessed as a Catholic seminarian, it was impossible to refute with what I knew.
However, once I converted to the Church of Christ (a sect started in the 1800s by a man named Alexander Campbell - former Presbyterian) I discovered similar issues - the very same that drove me to believe the Catholic Church was evil and condemened. I begged God to lead me where He wanted me, even if it was supposed to be Catholic. But I needed proof to become Catholic because of all the lies I was taught growing up. I learned that in the midst of my huge bible brain that I was really ignorant.
Well, leaving out all the scandals before, during and after, my family is Catholic and learning our faith as best we can. Evolution vs. Creation was a huge topic for me and I did tons of research and contemplation. The Catholic Church’s acceptance was one of the stumbling blocks to me early on. To me, and to all of my family, it is a heresy and no one should have anything to do with anyone who pushes it. You can simply disregard others feelings on the subject, but that is very uncharitable. The issue is not a salvation issue in my book and therefore full of hot air on all sides of the fences. What I believe, I protect from those that are trying to rob me of it. I have many ideas of what may or could have happened. But I do not accept the simple case of evolution as stated by many. I predict that the theory will change many times by the next century.
Ben Steinberg presented a case for intelligent design amidst atheists and found that they don’t mind as long as there is a rational theory underpinning it. And there is such a thing. The problem is that Christians, mostly Catholic and atheists, are beating everyone else up that doesn’t accept their opinion on the subject. Have mercy on those that want to continue believing in the biblical version of the creation story. They don’t deserve to be beat up, at least most of them.
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ETEXAS
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Actually I believe …in Adam Eve! Better safe than sorry is my motto.
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Larry1700
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Howdy from Waco, ETEXAS!Actually I believe …in Adam Eve! Better safe than sorry is my motto.
If you ever get a chance, go to Glen Rose and visit the Creation Evidence Musuem, which I visited a couple weeks ago. I can’t say with 100% certainty that the exhibits and theories are completely accurate (but based on Ben Stein’s excellent movie “Expelled,” the big-time atheists’ “facts” aren’t 100% certain, either).
Anyway, I did a little internet research to see who believes the creation-type theories and the evidence at the museum, and found that there are many reputable folks who do.
I also ordered a few videos from a Catholic lay apostolate called the Kolbe Center for the Study of Creation (www.kolbecenter.org).
In addition, I found some very interesting stuff about the Dinosaurs of Acambaro (I don’t have a web site address; just do a search for it), They’re figurines of dinosaurs–over 30,000 of them–which are dated to between 500 B.C. and 500 A.D. One of the types of dinosaurs is an iguanadon, which was unknown at the time the figurines were dug up.
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Larry1700
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I’m 52 years old, a former Southern Baptist, and have been Catholic for the last 30 years. I’ve gone back and forth on the Genesis-creation-story vs. evolution-is-God’s-hand-too pendulum, and am currently more towards the Genesis account.
There are several reasons why I believe you should be careful about what you teach our children. In a recent scripture study class at church, we had a book which essentially said (in so many words) that the creation story, the flood story, the Exodus story, etc. (i.e., the “biggies” in salvation history) were simply myths which the ancient Hebrews borrowed and modified to explain God’s hand in their people’s history. Wow, what a faith-killer! I read on these forums that the book had a similar effect on others.
I don’t know what I would do if I were in your shoes, but I strongly encourage you to watch Ben Stein’s movie, “Expelled,” and share it with your students. It’s a real eye-opener, which shows that evolution may just be more ideology than science–an ideology designed to remove God from society, or at least put Him in his place–at home, not in the public arena. We don’t want our children’s faith to be eroded away, and for them to do the same to their children, etc., etc.
Also, read up on the Dinosaurs of Acambaro, the Alvis Delk footprint, and similar accounts which I have recently encountered. As I posted earlier on this forum, I don’t know with 100% certainty that they’re true, but they seem to have reputable folks that back them up, and I have grown to realize via “Expelled” and other sources that evolution isn’t as certain as I used to think.
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dskysmine
Guest
The Dinosaurs of Acambro are considered a hoax…
Considering that Adam and Eve were real is not the same thing as believing that the Earth was created in 144 hours.
Please be careful with misleading information.
Believing in evolution does not mean we do not believe in the Bible, and you have no basis, other than the Bible, to assert that the Earth was created in 144 hours. I see nothing wrong in believing that Genesis is not a literal description of what happened, after all it depicts events that happened before there were even humans as if someone was there to report on what God was doing. >_>
God bless,
Daniel
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David89
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This is a vote for both, I dont understand why some people think both cant be reconciled. I think currently the science for evolution is large, yet I still believe God created Adam and Eve as the first fully human people with soul’s created instantaneously.
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