Do you believe in magic?

  • Thread starter Thread starter TheWatcher
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

TheWatcher

Guest
Another thread was asking if magic was evil. This made me really curious.

Do you believe that magic exists?

If yes, can you name an instance where magic influenced something? A link to a source, if possible, would be helpful.

Thank you!
 
We need a working definition of magic here.
I believe there are people who practice magic, but it is nothing more than illusion.
 
That’s a very tricky question. I don’t not believe in it, but at the same time I don’t exactly believe in it. It’s one of these things that I believe could exist. In any instance, it’s not something I feel comfortable about messing with, even before I became Catholic I was always very uneasy about the practice of magic and witchcraft.
 
wcknight said:
No,… only in the song by the " Lovin Spoonful"…
Click to expand...
ROFL!

It makes me feel groovy. Like an old time movie!

I had a classic turbo stasis deck that was never beaten!

Oh, you mean other magic? 😉
 
my friends brother used to be a wiccan and practice magic i believe satan will give you powers like that as long as it gets you away from God and magic is against God’s commandments
 
TheWatcher said:
The use of paranormal methods to manipulate natural forces.
Click to expand...
Well, if a magican can do this or that trick I love to watch and it’s fun to suspend disbelief. Same reason I like wrestling-it’s fun.
 
Rascalking said:
Well, if a magican can do this or that trick I love to watch and it’s fun to suspend disbelief. Same reason I like wrestling-it’s fun.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t say that is “paranormal” though, as an illusionist is using science to create his illusion.

I also enjoy “magic tricks” but I’m asking if people believe in actual magic. As in, able to cast spells and those spells actually do something.
 
TheWatcher said:
I also enjoy “magic tricks” but I’m asking if people believe in actual magic. As in, able to cast spells and those spells actually do something.
Click to expand...
I’m sorry, I misunderstood.

That’s rubbish. It only “works” if you think it does.
 
TheWatcher said:
Another thread was asking if magic was evil. This made me really curious.

Do you believe that magic exists?

If yes, can you name an instance where magic influenced something? A link to a source, if possible, would be helpful.

Thank you!
Click to expand...
I believe in the grace of God and miracles.

Magic in the way you described it, (manipulation, paranormal) is forbidden to Christians. We are to seek the Creator, our loving Father, who created us and loves us and desires our eternal happiness.
 
only in fairy tale books or cartoons:) i believe in God not magic in rel life. its a trick like a magician in on stage,movies or circus. its not real:love::signofcross:
 
TheWatcher said:
If yes, can you name an instance where magic influenced something? A link to a source, if possible, would be helpful.

Thank you!
Click to expand...
Hello:) Trends in Ecology & Evolution, Volume 26, Issue 8, 389-397, 18 May 2011 has an abstract. Magic traits in speciation: magic but not rare? that was of interest to me. The authors are Maria R. Servedio, G. Sander Van Doorn, Michael Kopp, Alicia M. Frame, Patrik Nosil. cell.com/trends/ecology-evolution/abstract/S0169-5347(11)00113-3?script=true

“What is a magic trait? Even though magic traits are often studied purely at the phenotypic level, a precise definition requires reference to the underlying genetics. This is because magic traits are encoded by ‘magic genes’, that is, genes subject to divergent selection that also pleiotropically affect reproductive isolation. The fundamental requirement of pleiotropy guarantees an association between divergent selection and non-random mating that cannot be broken by recombination; this is what renders magic traits effective in driving speciation with gene flow in theoretical models (Box 1). Usually, one thinks of magic-trait genes as controlling a single trait; many magic traits identified phenotypically will undoubtedly fall into this category. However, this need not necessarily be the case. A complex of two identifiable phenotypic traits, one under divergent selection and one involved in non-random mating, can be considered magic if the two component traits share a common genetic basis. We collectively refer to both these cases as a ‘magic trait’ (note that in the latter case, if the traits are polygenic then pleiotropy can be partial, rendering the trait complex partly magic).” p.g.
ebio.colorado.edu/labs/nosil/files/2009/09/ServedioetalTREE2011proofs.pdf

I’m interested in science and this is a scientific article. I happy to present it because I support science. 🙂
 
40.png
Dorothy:
I believe in the grace of God and miracles.

Magic in the way you described it, (manipulation, paranormal) is forbidden to Christians. We are to seek the Creator, our loving Father, who created us and loves us and desires our eternal happiness.

This sounds like you believe magic (paranormal) is possible, just forbidden. Am I correct in my understanding?
 
LogisticsBranch said:
TheWatcher;8253514:
If yes, can you name an instance where magic influenced something? A link to a source, if possible, would be helpful.

Thank you!
Click to expand...
Hello:) Trends in Ecology & Evolution, Volume 26, Issue 8, 389-397, 18 May 2011 has an abstract. Magic traits in speciation: magic but not rare? that was of interest to me. The authors are Maria R. Servedio, G. Sander Van Doorn, Michael Kopp, Alicia M. Frame, Patrik Nosil. cell.com/trends/ecology-evolution/abstract/S0169-5347(11)00113-3?script=true

“What is a magic trait? Even though magic traits are often studied purely at the phenotypic level, a precise definition requires reference to the underlying genetics. This is because magic traits are encoded by ‘magic genes’, that is, genes subject to divergent selection that also pleiotropically affect reproductive isolation. The fundamental requirement of pleiotropy guarantees an association between divergent selection and non-random mating that cannot be broken by recombination; this is what renders magic traits effective in driving speciation with gene flow in theoretical models (Box 1). Usually, one thinks of magic-trait genes as controlling a single trait; many magic traits identified phenotypically will undoubtedly fall into this category. However, this need not necessarily be the case. A complex of two identifiable phenotypic traits, one under divergent selection and one involved in non-random mating, can be considered magic if the two component traits share a common genetic basis. We collectively refer to both these cases as a ‘magic trait’ (note that in the latter case, if the traits are polygenic then pleiotropy can be partial, rendering the trait complex partly magic).” p.g.
ebio.colorado.edu/labs/nosil/files/2009/09/ServedioetalTREE2011proofs.pdf

I’m interested in science and this is a scientific article. I’m happy to present it because I support science. 🙂
Click to expand...
I should also add this link that compliments what was presented above. It’s from the University of Cambridge’s Genetics Group - Department of Zoology : “Magic traits in speciation: ‘magic’ but not rare? We enjoyed reading the review of magic traits by Maria Servedio and colleagues in TREE. In particular, they ‘find that the level of support [for magic traits] varies widely … In only one case have both criteria been met by manipulative experiments … mimetic wing color-patterns in tropical Heliconius butterflies‘. Couldn’t have put it better.”
heliconius.zoo.cam.ac.uk/2011/magic-traits-in-speciation-%e2%80%98magic%e2%80%99-but-not-rare/

The Watcher, as you can see the word magic has a different usage as compared to others that have contributed to your topic. Thanks for giving me the oportunity to share my here too! 😃
 
TheWatcher said:
This sounds like you believe magic (paranormal) is possible, just forbidden. Am I correct in my understanding?
Click to expand...
Yes, and any kind of “power” gained with occult means would be to our undoing, not to our benefit.
 
No. It does not exist. It is illusion or scientific principles. Or delusion in some cases.
 
I highly doubt that magic rituals have any intrinsic paranormal power, but I could see magic (not illusion, which this thread clearly isn’t about) being efficacious in one of these three ways:
  1. The “magic” actually takes advantage of true, natural properties of something. For example, in past ages and still in some parts of the world certain herbs have been used in “magic”, and indeed some of these herbs contain secondary compounds which do in fact have medicinal uses, hallucinogenic effects, etc. I suppose there might be some “magic” today which similarly is efficacious through some natural causes we do not yet understand scientifically, or which the magic practitioner (witch doctor, etc.) doesn’t understand, anyway.
  2. Demons may cause an otherwise powerless spell or other magic ritual to appear efficacious by themselves doing what the magic was meant to do. In this case it’s really likely another form of illusion, not from the person performing the magic but from something else, likely for the sake of deluding the person performing the magic and anyone else who might witness the apparent success of the magic.
  3. I wouldn’t have admitted this possibility just a month or two ago, but upon further reflection I suppose it is possible that the human soul has abilities which would appear paranormal from a materialist perspective. This idea goes very much against my own instincts and reflections on the soul, and generally I go by the assumption that all supposed paranormal abilities (mind reading, telekinesis, etc.) are cases of fraud or delusion. But I can’t exclude the possibility in an absolute way.
All three possibilities really come down to the “magic” actually being some kind of natural activity.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top