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TheWatcher
Guest
Can you name one instance where magic/“power” was used? I’m very curious.
I personally don’t believe in magic so I’m very curious about the people who do.
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I personally don’t believe in magic so I’m very curious about the people who do.
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Dorothy
Guest
I am talking about evil power that comes from those who ignore the Creator and seek to dabble in things that are forbidden.
I am much more comfortable in speaking about the goodness of God and His plan for us. I do not wish to continue speaking about the dark side.
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TheWatcher
Guest
Yes, I got that you were talking about evil powers. I was curious for an example of such as I don’t actually believe in any sort of magic actually existing.
I also didn’t mean to push you into a conversation that you didn’t wish to partake in. I’m very sorry.
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Dorothy
Guest
I know you didn’t mean it. No problem…
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midori
Guest
Well, one example-- some pagans were chitchatting about how hard it was to be in the workplace after being “outed” as pagan, and how closeminded people were, and how they couldn’t accept them and leave them alone.
One girl who had dedicated herself to Nyx (or was it Hecate?) worked in a workplace where there was one really evangelical-type Christian who kept prosletyzing at her, and she was really annoyed by him. They were standing on the stairwell at work, and he was bothering her, and she prayed to Nyx to get rid of him for her and did a mental-imagery-magicky thing of pushing him away. (The conversation was a while ago; she explained it better than that.
) The next moment, he misstepped on a stair, and fell down about three flights of steps, and ended up breaking his leg in several places. The girl was quick to pray a thank-you to Nyx, but asked that she not be quite so violent in the future. 
The responses to her story were mostly along the lines of, “What a jerk; he deserved it!” and “Yeah, Nyx, don’t mess with her.”People have dedicated themselves to beings besides God for ages. I don’t have any problem in believing that there are entities out there who are happy to accept that dedication, and who perform favors in exchange. It’s totally not something I would ever, ever, ever want to get involved with myself-- but it makes sense to me that instead of being totally imaginary nonentities, that there are beings behind various occult labels. I also think that’s one of the reasons why the occult is so forbidden-- not because there’s imaginary unicorn dust and pink bubble fairies to distract us from God, but because there are beings out there that we really have no business involving ourselves with, no matter how innocently.
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FurtherSuntime
Guest
Is levitation magic…? It has a very interesting history in mystics as well strange or ill-understood individuals…google searched a while back and found the whole matter very curious
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Dorothy
Guest
Without doing research, I have heard about St. Teresa of Avila experiencing levitation during Mass and she didn’t want to be a center of attraction and would ask some nuns near her to hold her down if it should happen.
Also, St. Joseph of Cupertino earned the title Patron of Aviators due to his frequent levitations.
This is not something willed by the person, but something that happens when their spirit is overwhelmed by the presence of the Lord and they are literally caught up in ecstasy.
I stay away from the term “magic” since that can cause an erroneous interpretation.
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FurtherSuntime
Guest
Why don’t you research levitation so you can sound like you know what your talking about
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Dorothy
Guest
I just shared what I recalled to my mind of what I read about in the past. Levitation did indeed happen to them.
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AndyF
Guest
a/some ritual or action causes a call to demonic forces
(demonic forces capable of manipulating nature in usual and supernatural ways unfamiliar to man. Their mandate differing from the desires of the subject now come into play)
b/demons cause desired action
c/subject thinks his action caused the effect
d/demons present case to God. They state subject contrary to Scripture rightly rejected God and desired
on his own to cause something. God lessens subjects compliment of protective graces.
e/subject, now delighted attempts more ritual. Unknown that he has now a lessened
barrier against influence. Demons plant stronger ideas of self reliance, independence and no need for God,etc,etc
and it goes on like this. In a spiritual downward spiral, ever subtly weaker and exploiting his particular weakness, the subject goes on in the deception still thinking he causes the events. And so the cycle repeats at (a).
Andy
(demonic forces capable of manipulating nature in usual and supernatural ways unfamiliar to man. Their mandate differing from the desires of the subject now come into play)
b/demons cause desired action
c/subject thinks his action caused the effect
d/demons present case to God. They state subject contrary to Scripture rightly rejected God and desired
on his own to cause something. God lessens subjects compliment of protective graces.
e/subject, now delighted attempts more ritual. Unknown that he has now a lessened
barrier against influence. Demons plant stronger ideas of self reliance, independence and no need for God,etc,etc
and it goes on like this. In a spiritual downward spiral, ever subtly weaker and exploiting his particular weakness, the subject goes on in the deception still thinking he causes the events. And so the cycle repeats at (a).
Andy
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Job42
Guest
I thought that the reality of magic was part of Church teaching 
maybe not…
well, if one believes in miracles from the Lord it is not much of a stretch IMO to believe in magic. It is just demonic powers manipulating things and deceiving the practitioner of magic into thinking he/she has power when there is none to be had.
maybe not…well, if one believes in miracles from the Lord it is not much of a stretch IMO to believe in magic. It is just demonic powers manipulating things and deceiving the practitioner of magic into thinking he/she has power when there is none to be had.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Would your confusion be from the bible?I thought that the reality of magic was part of Church teaching
well, if one believes in miracles from the Lord it is not much of a stretch IMO to believe in magic. It is just demonic powers manipulating things and deceiving the practitioner of magic into thinking he/she has power when there is none to be had.
Do you read the bible?
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Julia_Mae
Guest
Well, some of these types of things have been studied closely by scientists for decades now and confirmed in repeated experiments. They know that it works, now they are trying to figure out how. Remote viewing, for instance, or affecting something material by directed consciousness isn’t magic or paranormal or anything, it’s just something we didn’t understand before and are just beginning to now. Probably a genetically linked trait of some sort.
There’s no magic, IMO.
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Aelred_Minor
Guest
Regarding Christian levitation, this I believe would fall under the category of miracles, which are quite distinct from magic.
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Lost_Wanderer
Guest
Only the magic of and within the imagination.
To say that if one believed in miracles would mean one would believe that the demonic is capable of a fantastic sort of magic is to equate one with the other. That just cannot be and in fact puts one at risk of attributing the powers of God to Satan.
For one thing, miracles aren’t (at least not completely) a product of pure human effort. They require the power and will of God. Secondly, demons are fallen angels so it’s not much of a stretch to assume that they’re in fact far, far more limited and inferior in terms of power.
I’m sure demons are capable of giving the possessed the phenomena of levitation, increased strength, and perhaps eerie psychic abilities but that is a far cry from shooting out arcane blasts from your hands, transforming into a dragon, or turning your next door neighbor’s big doberman into a sheep.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to eat dinner and then work on my little fantasy story… hopefully, I’d have rid myself of the song the thread title so deviously planted into my head! DX
To say that if one believed in miracles would mean one would believe that the demonic is capable of a fantastic sort of magic is to equate one with the other. That just cannot be and in fact puts one at risk of attributing the powers of God to Satan.
For one thing, miracles aren’t (at least not completely) a product of pure human effort. They require the power and will of God. Secondly, demons are fallen angels so it’s not much of a stretch to assume that they’re in fact far, far more limited and inferior in terms of power.
I’m sure demons are capable of giving the possessed the phenomena of levitation, increased strength, and perhaps eerie psychic abilities but that is a far cry from shooting out arcane blasts from your hands, transforming into a dragon, or turning your next door neighbor’s big doberman into a sheep.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to eat dinner and then work on my little fantasy story… hopefully, I’d have rid myself of the song the thread title so deviously planted into my head! DX
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Job42
Guest
Yes I have read the Bible, and there are a couple of places in there that refer to the reality of magic, e.g., Aaron and Moses facing Pharaoh’s sorcerers, and Saul conjuring the spirit of Samuel.
But more than that, the Catechism:
2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.
What I would like to know is if there is any encyclical or Papal document or some such that says that magic is nothing more than an illusion and in no way supernatural.
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SteveGC
Guest
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OrdinaryMelkite
Guest
I agree with that. There IS a such a thing as Magic, but we should stay as far away from itas possible. It is against the teachings of the Bible and the magisterium of the CC-----plus it concerns itself with giving powers to man that only God Allmighty Himself is entiled to have. Plus, it places our souls in jeopardy since it is a sin—plus it has the potential to attract demonic, negative entities into our life overall. Good thread.
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holmj2674
Guest
When I was a Potestant Evangelical I played a little game called Dungeons and Dragons (still do in another form). You would not believe the amount of misconception/misinformation/ ignorance/ and fear that exists out there when you mention the word magic, sorcery etc. out there in the protestant (mostly fundamentalist) world. Wow. On another note they still execute people for witchcraft in some muslim countries…
I do not believe that magic exists in the sense that it really works. However, I believe that people who believe in magic may have some form pf placebo effect in their behavior when “casting” spells, such as wiccans performing a ritual/casting a charm (or whatever you call it) to bring them greater confidence for a work interview or some such.
When I think of magic in the real world I automatically think of Alister Crowley and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. Modern Gnosticism also treads close to “magic” as it has become intertwined with the new age movement over the last 100 years thanks to Madam Blatavsky and her Theosophy movement.
My wife at one point before becoming Catholic had thought about becoming wiccan, and had a bunch of books on the subject and a “spellbook” called a “Book of Shadows.” I can’t bear to throw books away so they are sitting in the attic in a box… but I believe these books are a real danger and “magic” though useless, is not harmless. They worldview it engenders is completely contrary to the scriptures and Catholic teaching.
I do not believe that magic exists in the sense that it really works. However, I believe that people who believe in magic may have some form pf placebo effect in their behavior when “casting” spells, such as wiccans performing a ritual/casting a charm (or whatever you call it) to bring them greater confidence for a work interview or some such.
When I think of magic in the real world I automatically think of Alister Crowley and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. Modern Gnosticism also treads close to “magic” as it has become intertwined with the new age movement over the last 100 years thanks to Madam Blatavsky and her Theosophy movement.
My wife at one point before becoming Catholic had thought about becoming wiccan, and had a bunch of books on the subject and a “spellbook” called a “Book of Shadows.” I can’t bear to throw books away so they are sitting in the attic in a box… but I believe these books are a real danger and “magic” though useless, is not harmless. They worldview it engenders is completely contrary to the scriptures and Catholic teaching.
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Whitacre_Girl
Guest
The funny thing about the magic of ancient times is that it fell into two categories:
- Unseen magic that was based largely off coincidence and “spells.” Like casting a “spell” for someone to become sick and then a week later by pure CHANCE they catch a cold.
- Science and medicine. Occult practitioners believed in the power and magic of certain plants. They would make a religious ceremony of creating potions and concoctions of these plants to bring about healing or even poisons. These plants were later found by science to contain healing properties. They were medicating while believing it was a power unseen by a pagan god.
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