Do You Believe Popes are Sinless?

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I haven’t been here long enough to post a poll, so please answer in the thread with comment if you don’t mind.

I was in conversation with a “non-denominational” Christian Pastor about the Eucharist and discussing Scripture passages when I was challenged about the Pope. The Pastor assured me that the vast majority of Catholics believe that Popes are sinless and perfect.

And, in fact, became a bit angry when I said I knew a whole forum of Catholics and I was pretty sure they would not agree. But what do I know, I haven’t asked. So I am asking in order to collect a bit of data.

Please say if you believe Popes are sinless.
 
Popes are not sinless. There are a few that were quite the opposite actually.🙂
 
This is a classic Straw Man argument from someone who probably has no desire to understand the truth so he creates an argument that is easy to defeat.

The Pope is infallible when intending to use his office to teach on faith or morals. Not everything that comes out of his mouth is infallible. Not even in his statements or writings on faith and morals if he is not intending to teach Ex Cathedra. In addition, it is through no merit of his that he is infallible at anytime, ever. It is through the grace and benevolence of the Holy Spirit who guides the Church from doctrinal error.

As for sin, the Pope is not impeccable. He is quite capable of sin and I am sure views himself as a sinner just like the rest of us. Many popes in history have been incredible sinners. Heck, Peter himself denied Christ three times. No Catholic who is even remotely educated in their faith believes any Pope to be sinless.

Feel free to have the pastor come on here, i’m sure there are plenty of Catholics who would enjoy presenting the official Church position on the Papacy. In the meantime, here is a pretty good write up on the subject: catholic.com/tracts/papal-infallibility
 
There was only one human creature without sin, and she was a very special exception.
 
bearer said:
He was not created. He is eternal.
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Yes Christ is eternal, but his human nature is not. It had a specific beginning. After the incarnation, he was fully human and without sin, as was his mother. Thus, there were two.
 
If you’re going to be an anti-Catholic, at least teach something that is true. I am so sick of the lies spread by so many of the non-denominationals out there.
 
jwinch2 said:
And he is still fully human and without sin. Your post said nothing about “created”, nor did the OP.
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I wrote, “human creature”. And, as all popes are indeed human creatures, there is no point in comparing them to Our Lord God, who has always existed without sin.
 
bearer said:
I wrote, “human creature”. And, as all popes are indeed human creatures, there is no point in comparing them to Our Lord God, who has always existed without sin.
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Yet as I noted above, He has not always been human.

It don’t want to misinterpret you here but it sounds in the above statement as if you are suggesting that there is some difference in the level of humanity between the popes and Christ. If I am in error, which I hope, please let me know.
 
Well, since Popes regularly receive the sacrament of reconciliation, I do not suppose they are sinless.
 
jwinch2 said:
Yet as I noted above, He has not always been human.

It don’t want to misinterpret you here but it sounds in the above statement as if you are suggesting that there is some difference in the level of humanity between the popes and Christ. If I am in error, which I hope, please let me know.
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No, there is no difference in humanity per se, but Christ was assumed, not created, into truly human form, and without losing His divinity. Like I mentioned, he existed before humanity was ever created. That’s the difference between Him and the popes, or Our Blessed Mother for that matter.
 
Julia_Mae said:
I haven’t been here long enough to post a poll, so please answer in the thread with comment if you don’t mind.

I was in conversation with a “non-denominational” Christian Pastor about the Eucharist and discussing Scripture passages when I was challenged about the Pope. The Pastor assured me that the vast majority of Catholics believe that Popes are sinless and perfect.

And, in fact, became a bit angry when I said I knew a whole forum of Catholics and I was pretty sure they would not agree. But what do I know, I haven’t asked. So I am asking in order to collect a bit of data.

Please say if you believe Popes are sinless.
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That is one of the most ridiculous assertions that I have heard in some time. The Church has never, at any time, taught that the Popes are sinless. Pastor is probably confused over the issue of infallibility.

Quick! Get you own copy of Catholicism for Dummies. Then read up and defend your faith with confidence!

I had a Seventh Day Adventist, a pastor’s daughter, ask me if we prayed to the Pope!

Ignorance flashes like lightning, while truth plods along slowly.
 
bearer said:
No, there is no difference in humanity per se, but Christ was assumed, not created, into truly human form, and without losing His divinity. Like I mentioned, he existed before humanity was ever created. That’s the difference between Him and the popes, or Our Blessed Mother for that matter.
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Agreed, 100%. However, I would then argue that at one time, walking the earth, were two fully human and sinless people. The only two. The popes? Not so much… 😃

Thank you for your clarification of your earlier comment.

Peace,
 
jwinch2 said:
Agreed, 100%. However, I think we have to be cautious in being tempted to take away from Christ’s humanity. Just because he kept His divinity that does not mean he was not fully and completely human as well. Thus, at one time, walking the earth, were two fully human and sinless people. The only two. The popes? Not so much… 😃

Thank you for your clarification of your earlier comment.

Peace,
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You are right that we must not minimize His humanity. I’m certainly no theologian, and referring to the Catechism just now, I read this:
470 Because “human nature was assumed, not absorbed”, in the mysterious union of the Incarnation, the Church was led over the course of centuries to confess the full reality of Christ’s human soul, with its operations of intellect and will, and of his human body. In parallel fashion, she had to recall on each occasion that Christ’s human nature belongs, as his own, to the divine person of the Son of God, who assumed it. Everything that Christ is and does in this nature derives from “one of the Trinity”. The Son of God therefore communicates to his humanity his own personal mode of existence in the Trinity. In his soul as in his body, Christ thus expresses humanly the divine ways of the Trinity:
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The Son of God. . . worked with human hands; he thought with a human mind. He acted with a human will, and with a human heart he loved. Born of the Virgin Mary, he has truly been made one of us, like to us in all things except sin.
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Although His divinity makes Him different from the rest of us, that distinction does not necessarily contradict your statement.

I suppose my argument is that God is incapable of sin because He is indeed divine; Mary was incapable of sin because she was created that way. In other words, perhaps you are right that there were two human beings without sin, and I am right that there was only one human creature without sin.

I’m tempted to ask Fr. Serpa about this, but since he’s so busy, I figure I’ll do some more reading and try to find the answer.
 
Popes are not sinless. They are just considered qualified for the job. 🙂
 
jwinch2 said:
This is a classic Straw Man argument from someone who probably has no desire to understand the truth so he creates an argument that is easy to defeat.

The Pope is infallible when intending to use his office to teach on faith or morals. Not everything that comes out of his mouth is infallible. Not even in his statements or writings on faith and morals if he is not intending to teach Ex Cathedra. In addition, it is through no merit of his that he is infallible at anytime, ever. It is through the grace and benevolence of the Holy Spirit who guides the Church from doctrinal error.

As for sin, the Pope is not impeccable. He is quite capable of sin and I am sure views himself as a sinner just like the rest of us. Many popes in history have been incredible sinners. Heck, Peter himself denied Christ three times. No Catholic who is even remotely educated in their faith believes any Pope to be sinless.
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Thank you jwinch. Well said. 🎉
 
bearer said:
You are right that we must not minimize His humanity. I’m certainly no theologian, and referring to the Catechism just now, I read this:

Although His divinity makes Him different from the rest of us, that distinction does not necessarily contradict your statement.

I suppose my argument is that God is incapable of sin because He is indeed divine; Mary was incapable of sin because she was created that way. In other words, perhaps you are right that there were two human beings without sin, and I am right that there was only one human creature without sin.

I’m tempted to ask Fr. Serpa about this, but since he’s so busy, I figure I’ll do some more reading and try to find the answer.
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catholic.com/quickquestions/how-could-jesus-christs-human-nature-be-part-of-the-trinity-if-it-is-not-co-eternal-w

Not exactly the answer, but close…
 
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