Do You Believe Popes are Sinless?

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Every single person I’ve ever heard say that Catholics believe the Pope is sinless was a non-Catholic. Without exception. :o
Not that there might not be some ignorant Catholics, but it seems it’s the non-Catholics spreading the fiction.
 
Do I as a Catholic believe that Popes are sinless? One word: NO. Why be verbose when you can answer such a simple question with a simple reply? 😉

(And just in case he thinks we’re being coached or denying it on purpose so that we don’t look too suspicious, ask him this: name one official Catholic source which states something to the effect that Popes can commit no sin. 🤷)
 
I really want to thank everyone for their responses and I hope I get a few more. I think the way to combat misunderstanding is with fact. Your posts are the facts of what Catholics believe or don’t.
 
Including Pope Benedict XVI, there have been 265 popes. Only about 84 or so are canonized/beatified (I only had time for a quick count and may be slightly off). If Catholics actually believe that all the Popes are “sinless and perfect” (as the nondenominational pastor stated) then why hasn’t the Catholic Church canonized all of them? If what this pastor said were true, then this means that Catholics believe that the popes who actually were canonized/beatified were somehow more sinless and perfect than those who weren’t. Otherwise, what made them worthy of the distinction of being a saint or blessed, as compared to the other popes? And yet, how could a pope who is a saint be somehow more holy than a pope who isn’t a saint, when both of them are “sinless and perfect”?

As a side note, the Catholic Church does not believe that a person has to be “sinless and perfect” to be a saint, so we don’t even say this about the popes who happened to be canonized. Moreover, we believe that Jesus and Mary were the only sinless and perfect humans (referring to Jesus in his human nature). But my point is, if Catholics actually believed that a person was sinless and perfect, this person would obviously be canonized, and yet the vast majority of popes have not been given this designation.
 
The popes are not sinless. They are infallible when teaching faith and morals. In fact if he were sinless The Holy Fathers weekly confession would be sacrilegious.
 
No. And the Popes are the first to agree that they are not sinless.
 
**Popes are not sinless…they are human. The only 100% human that was sinless was the Blessed Virgin Mary (however some may include Jesus ).

Is this question referring to more than personal sins of the Popes (like infallability)? If so that is an entirely different question.**
 
No, popes are not sinless and that has never been a teaching of the Church. I have been around Catholics in this forum and in Church for years and I have **never **heard a Catholic say that the Pope is sinless. You might want to check online to see if there has been some sort of national poll that asked that question… I doubt it, but check.

There may be some former Catholics or possibly current Catholics who have grossly misunderstood what the Church means by infallibility, which has nothing to do with sinlessness. But I suspect that it is the pastor himself that has misunderstood it rather than hearing it from Catholics. On the other hand, it is possible that the pastor is confusing the pope with the Blessed Virgin who we do believe was without sin. If you are going to engage in further conversation with the pastor, you might want to get a real firm understanding of the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception— especially looking at biblical typology as a support for the dogma.
 
Dante placed several Popes among the damned in his version of Hell. His Inferno is a work of fiction, of course, but that does indicate that even hundreds of years ago, a devout Catholic had no problem with the idea that Popes could sin and even be damned.

I’ve even read, though I do not know for sure, that of all the actual named individuals assigned to Dante’s Hell, “pope” is the most common occupation.

Usagi
 
Dante placed several Popes among the damned in his version of Hell. His Inferno is a work of fiction, of course, but that does indicate that even hundreds of years ago, a devout Catholic had no problem with the idea that Popes could sin and even be damned.

I’ve even read, though I do not know for sure, that of all the actual named individuals assigned to Dante’s Hell, “pope” is the most common occupation.

Usagi
For a real-life example, Alexander VI (born Roderic Borja, aka Rodrigo Borgia) is proof that Popes are not sinless. 😉 Hey, we don’t hide the fact that there were Popes who had illegitimate children and were sexually active (as opposed to married) before and after receiving Holy Orders. 🤷 In fact Paul III (reign 1534-1549) delayed his ordination to the priesthood on purpose just so he could continue his promiscuous lifestyle, all while already being a Cardinal-deacon since 1493. By the time he became a priest (1519), he already had four children with his mistress!
 
“The road to hell is paved with the skulls of erring priests, and is lit with the skulls of erring bishops.”-St. John Chrysostom

He lived in the late 300’s, early 400’s. The Pope is a Bishop.
 
No. The first Pope was hardly sinless.

"Then Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, “God forbid, Lord! No such thing shall ever happen to you.” He [Jesus] turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are an obstacle to me. You are thinking not as God does, but as human beings do.” "
  • Mt 16:22-23
“At that he [Peter] began to curse and to swear, “I do not know the man.” And immediately a cock crowed. Then Peter remembered the word that Jesus had spoken: “Before the cock crows you will deny me three times.” He went out and began to weep bitterly.”
  • Mt 26:74-75
Scott hahn on the Pope
catholic-pages.com/pope/hahn.asp
 
I haven’t been here long enough to post a poll, so please answer in the thread with comment if you don’t mind.

I was in conversation with a “non-denominational” Christian Pastor about the Eucharist and discussing Scripture passages when I was challenged about the Pope. The Pastor assured me that the vast majority of Catholics believe that Popes are sinless and perfect.

And, in fact, became a bit angry when I said I knew a whole forum of Catholics and I was pretty sure they would not agree. But what do I know, I haven’t asked. So I am asking in order to collect a bit of data.

Please say if you believe Popes are sinless.
Incapable of sin? Well, if this is true, Blessed John Paul the Great wasted a lot of time going to confession every single day from the first day of his Papacy to his last.
 
+1 to every post here. Of course popes can and do sin. This is a classic (bad) misinterpretation of “infallibility” to include “impeccability”.
 
+1 to every post here. Of course popes can and do sin. This is a classic (bad) misinterpretation of “infallibility” to include “impeccability”.
Yes, and it’s a reminder to me (one I shouldn’t need, since I think I used to hold this misunderstanding myself–an example of how a “paradigm shift” makes it hard even to remember what it was like to hold the old paradigm) not to get annoyed with Catholics who endlessly repeat “infallibility is not impeccability” when I want to ask more questions about why their understanding of the Church requires one and not the other:D.

Edwin
 
Yes, and it’s a reminder to me (one I shouldn’t need, since I think I used to hold this misunderstanding myself–an example of how a “paradigm shift” makes it hard even to remember what it was like to hold the old paradigm) not to get annoyed with Catholics who endlessly repeat “infallibility is not impeccability” when I want to ask more questions about why their understanding of the Church requires one and not the other:D.

Edwin
Because we can see that Christ granted Peter the charism of infallibility (Mt 16:19 and others), but clearly he did not grant him impeccability (denying Christ, etc). 😃
 
Great responses. I love the historical examples and quotes. I read a book once about a Pope everyone hated so much when he died they left his body on the floor naked for like, days, because his servants stole everything including his clothes and no one wanted to spend the money to bury him. I think it was Innocent Xth.
 
I’ve seen a few comments in this thread about “lies” and “straw men.” Let’s keep in mind that this particular pastor may just be passing on what he was always taught. When people believe false statements about Catholicism, it’s not always their own fault.

Now Julia Mae has some info to take back to him, if the discussion arises again.
I haven’t been here long enough to post a poll, so please answer in the thread with comment if you don’t mind.

I was in conversation with a “non-denominational” Christian Pastor about the Eucharist and discussing Scripture passages when I was challenged about the Pope. The Pastor assured me that the vast majority of Catholics believe that Popes are sinless and perfect.

And, in fact, became a bit angry when I said I knew a whole forum of Catholics and I was pretty sure they would not agree. But what do I know, I haven’t asked. So I am asking in order to collect a bit of data.

Please say if you believe Popes are sinless.
 
I’ve seen a few comments in this thread about “lies” and “straw men.” Let’s keep in mind that this particular pastor may just be passing on what he was always taught. When people believe false statements about Catholicism, it’s not always their own fault.

Now Julia Mae has some info to take back to him, if the discussion arises again.
Yes, exactly. It seemed to me more a matter of misinformation and self-righteous anger in defense of Jesus, really. I thought if I asked here, I can just show the thread responses and maybe get a more open dialogue.
 
Great responses. I love the historical examples and quotes. I read a book once about a Pope everyone hated so much when he died they left his body on the floor naked for like, days, because his servants stole everything including his clothes and no one wanted to spend the money to bury him. I think it was Innocent Xth.
On his deathbed in 1513, Julius II granted an audience to Paride de Grassi, the papal master of ceremonies. The pope recalled “having seen many popes, who, once dead, were immediately abandoned by relatives and servants, and preyed upon even for indispensable things, such that they were left lying there in a shameful way, downright nude with their private parts exposed, a thing which, for someone of authority - of majesty - as elevated as that of the papacy, was scandalous and degrading.” In order to prevent something similar from happening to his body, the pope wanted to pay de Grassi in advance and discussed with him how he would be buried.

When Sixtus IV died in 1484, then master of ceremonies, Johann Burchard complained how the abbot of San Sebastiano, who acted as sacristan, quickly stole the bed and all the furnishings as soon as the corpse had been taken out of the room, that Burchard had to (unsuccessfully) hunt for items such as a clean shirt with which to dress Sixtus’ body for hours. As an aside, Burchard later admitted to having made a faux pas in dressing the corpse: as Sixtus was a Franciscan, he should have been dressed in the habit of the order instead of the pontifical under his vestments.

A little later, upon the death of the infamous Alexander VI in 1503, his son Cesare, too ill to attend to the business himself, sent Don Michelotto da Corella, his chief bravo, to seize the Pope’s treasures before the death was publicly announced. Burchard (still master of ceremonies) recalls how da Corella and a number of people went to close the doors of the papal palace, but one of the crowd drew a dagger and threatened a cardinal to hand over the keys. The mob then went through a back room and looted all the plate and two chests containing a hundred thousand ducats. When the announcement of the pope’s death was made, it was the servants’ turn to pillage the storerooms, so that only the papal throne and some cushions and hangings were left at the end of the day. Furthermore, when the funeral ceremonies were beginning, some guards of the Papal palace broke into the chapel and tried to loot the candlesticks. In the ensuing pandemonium, the corpse was left abandoned - Burchard and three others had to step in to save the pope’s bier. In the end, the bier had to be transferred into another chapel, with only two torches for company.
 
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