Do You Believe Popes are Sinless?

[Disciple4Christ]

I have heard some crazy things from poorly catichised Catholics but never have I heard a Catholic that believes the Pope is sinless. Why would the Pope so frequent reconciliation if he was sinless. They may very well understand sin much better than most of us
The cause of many of these misunderstandings is directly related to the lack of Catholics on fire for their faith (luke warm) . Even more reason we need to turn up the heat fan the flames of the Spirit.

 

[odile53]

Sure I do, about as much as I believe in the tooth fairy!

Popes aren’t sinless. You may be confusing “sinless” with “infallibility.” Popes are infallible under very narrowly defined terms, when they are speaking ex cathedra on matters of faith and morals. That means, they are speaking in a teaching or pastoral role, to the whole Church, and they cannot contradict previously set-forth dogma. They aren’t infallible under any other circumstances. Still, since most of them have been very learned and holy men, what they have to say bears a lot of weight and is full of sound teaching and thought.

Also, the subject manner has to be faith or morals. They aren’t infallible if, for example, they are speaking about the upcoming basketball season!

 

[HOLY_POOH_FAN]

The main difficulty is that INFALLIBILITY does not refer to the ability of the Pope not being able to sin but he is only INFALLIBLE in certain clearly defined circumstances ex cathedra. That happened twice, once in 1856 and once in 1950- the whole Church and its history were involved in both decisions. The writing of the Bible, its acceptance, the faith in the sacraments and the role of the Pope as defined as infallible in 1870 at Vat 1 are all acts of different Councils ratified by the Pope. We cannot be sure, but we could imagine a Pope dropping the F Bomb at Pelosi, Obama, and others for their a-moral sexual teachings and on the Tea Party and GOP and others for balancing budgets on the backs of the poor. I am back here in Europe where the actors are different, same agenda. China is funding the world banks and markets but those same leaders do not object to their persecution of the Church and defiance of the Pope in making bishops illegally. Same leaders ignored Mubarek, Gadaffi and Syria’s Assad family and Israel’s horrific policiis and killings for decades for their gain. The chickens have come home to roost, Israel and Iran an Saudi Arabia and . Bahrain may be next.Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan will follow once the USA gets out. All because of ignorance, lack of historic knowledge an the hatred of the West an its coddling of the gestapo-nazi tactics of Israel toward its Palestinian citizens. PROTESTANT Evangelicals .seeem to have not thought that the BIBLE was written by sinful people, infallibly guided by the Church, not “dictated” as such and approved by CATHOLIC BISHOPS in Council who dumped the fake books, but they cannot see the same HOLY SPIRIT guiding the same Church today! They also attack us for believing what the Bible says re Eucharist, Mary and other key topics. Mainline Protestantism has gone so far left in its leadership- not all its members, shows that in prractice they are rudderless ships in an ocea.n of huge waves and storms. Thank God despite our sins PETER’S BOAT is still safe, buffeted by Satan’s devils, including other Christians and but still heads HOME INTACT IN TEACHING. Praise HIM!

 

[Francis95]

Julie, as a life long Catholic, I have never believed, nor have I ever been taught by another Catholic that Popes are sinless. As a matter of fact, I cannot remember any Catholic - faithful Catholic - ever stating they believed the Pope was sinless. I have heard/read non-catholics stating that Catholics may believe that. I remember once when I was very young my father saying that he was amazed how so many non-catholics seemed to know more about the catholic faith than catholics. He of course, was joking.

 

[JonathonofOhio]

I haven’t been here long enough to post a poll, so please answer in the thread with comment if you don’t mind.

I was in conversation with a “non-denominational” Christian Pastor about the Eucharist and discussing Scripture passages when I was challenged about the Pope. The Pastor assured me that the vast majority of Catholics believe that Popes are sinless and perfect.

And, in fact, became a bit angry when I said I knew a whole forum of Catholics and I was pretty sure they would not agree. But what do I know, I haven’t asked. So I am asking in order to collect a bit of data.

Please say if you believe Popes are sinless.

I would have said that this is a straw-man argument and I would say that this is like me saying all of his followers believe he is perfect, act as if that was factual, and then expect him to defend his supposed belief. It’s not logical to assume what someone else believes without any factual evidence to support the claim.

You should set boundaries with people when discussing your faith and do not accept arguments from people that are full of common fallacies. Remember that the truth is not found in illogical reasoning.

To answer: No. No one believes that pope is sinless.

 

[TheGreatestLove]

The words of God say ‘anyone who says they are without sin are liars’
I don’t believe the pope said that…although pope john paul II- was in my eyes a perfect example of Jesus and obedience thereof. He chose a room in the vatican that resembled a prison cell. He said what more do i need I have a bed and a nite stand.

The man pope JOHN II - drew tears and crowds…because of his example.
without sin- nope! Even veniel sins are sins…with what i observed of him I am sure he got pissed off at alot of other ones in vatican …that did not humble themselves… maybe most likely…No one is without sin!

That pastor you were talking to…I have discussed similiar in other threads…Bashing the catholic religion— as I have seen catholics bash the christians…When all that is rectified…by a miracle it seems…is when unity in christ will exist among Gods children.

No man is A God- We are merely servants thereof- There is only One God We call Him Jesus.

The popes calling is to bring the people to God…

 

[fbl9]

no i don’t beleive the pope is sinless.
even in my wandering days i never thought this let alone heard that we beleive popes to be sinless.

 

[kowsky]

For pope to be sinless , he must not be a normal human being…(according to the Scripture … for all have sinned and went short of glory) …(Edited as off topic)
Thank you
Glory be to the soon coming Saviour Jesus now and for ever…

 

[Julia_Mae]

For pope to be sinless , he must not be a normal human being…(according to the Scripture … for all have sinned and went short of glory) …in answering to this posted question i saw some of our friends mentioning " non- denominational" christians… it would be more appropriate to use non-denominational"Christians:" Christ is more important than denominations…why should we give more importance to pope when our Saviour Jesus Christ has said ." come to me(not to popes or saints) those who are heavily laden … I will give you rest…" … " he who comes to Me( not to popes or some oters) , I will never cast him away)…
Thank you
Glory be to the soon coming Saviour Jesus now and for ever…

Since I started the thread, I feel like I should say something. First, you are off topic. The topic is whether Catholics think the Pope is sinless. When you post as you did and are off-topic, it can be seen as proselytizing. This gets you into trouble with the moderators. We don’t want* that* to happen. So, if you have a question about the role of the Pope in the Universal Apostolic Christian Church we call Roman Catholicism (or the other churches in union with us) perhaps you could start a thread in apologetics. Then you define the topic and are asking for discussion. Welcome to CAF, BTW.

Meanwhile, I say again how much I appreciate everyone’s responses.

 

[GlobalWolf]

I’m not sure who said it, but there’s a quote saying that there are very few people who truly hate the Catholic Church. A lot of people hate what they believe the Catholic Church is, and if those things were true, most Catholics would, too. I tend to agree with that. I think that the best answer to people who do believe that Catholics teach Papal sinlessness is to simply prove that Catholics do not believe anything of that sort. Point out that modern Popes have stated that they go to frequent confession, and that some medieval Popes were looked upon so unfavorably in their time that Dante actually placed one of them in the outer level of Hell, being stung by bees for all eternity.

The latter example should definitely prove that Catholics don’t teach Papal sinlessness

 

[Julia_Mae]

I think that the best answer to people who do believe that Catholics teach Papal sinlessness is to simply prove that Catholics do not believe anything of that sort.

Precisely why I started this thread which I will have open on my screen at the Pastor’s next visit. Again, I don’t think this person was being hateful, in any purposeful way.

 

[HOLY_POOH_FAN]

There is no room on any of these CATHOLIC sites for snide comments about our teaching, especially when a Bible quote is used to defend nonsense. “Come to me…” not the POPE?? The same JESUS named Simon CEPHAS, PETER THE ROCK and built His CHURCH on him and the apostles, see MT 16 and 18. He got the KEYS, see references to DAVID and that meaning; Add JOHN 20- whatever you/loose on earht/retain on earth/is bound/loosed in HEAVEN. I agree it is about the sinlessness of the POPE, this is well answered already, but if you cite the Bible please do so from one with ALL its PAGES and CHAPTERS in it.

 

[DavidWJackson]

No, the Pope is not sinless. He probably sins at least seven times a day.

 

[bmonk]

No time to go through the whole thread, but I will add my vote to those who say the popes are sinners.

We all are sinners in the Church–except those who have become saints in heaven (canonized or not). The Church is for sinners. By God’s grace, it is composed of sinners as well. This includes the Pope and all the clergy: ordination is not a rite that makes us perfect.

One effect of this is that we do pray for the Pope and bishops every day. It’s right there inthe Eucharistic Prayers–they need it because without grace how can they guide the Church as God wills?

 

[MaryIrene]

[/COLO[COLOR=“Red”]Hello, There is only one sinless individual - Jesus the Son of God, He always was and is still sinless. There is no other person who is sinless. The popes are not sinless, neither was Mary.

 

[MaryIrene]

[/COLO[COLOR=“Red”]Hello, There is only one sinless individual - Jesus the Son of God, He always was and is still sinless. There is no other person who is sinless. The popes are not sinless, neither was Mary.

 

[fbl9]

[/COLO[COLOR=“Red”]Hello, There is only one sinless individual - Jesus the Son of God, He always was and is still sinless. There is no other person who is sinless. The popes are not sinless, neither was Mary.

Hello welcome to the forums
Please provide evidence of your claim.
And no the pet scripture verse isn’t evidnece. Why? because of the fact that there are people who seek God
The grace of calvary was applied to Mary when she was concived so thus she was/is sinless.

 

[HOLY_POOH_FAN]

B]SIZE=“2”]More bashing the Bride and the Mother of Christ. HIS PASCHAL VICTORY was anticipated in human time language by the HOLY SPIRIT who gave the FULLNESS OF GRACE as Gabriel addressed MARY in her mother’s womb and blocked original sin and its full consequences from her. This topic has been stuided, writtten and prayed over for 2100 years by saints, scholars and bellieved by the whole CHURCH guided by the same HOLY SPIRIT - was acceoted by Luther Zwingli and Calvin at the Revolt-amation in the 16th c.********** Small bigoted minds today try to deny that using ne verse of PAUL who logically was including JESUS in the ALL have sinned. Study the Greek and. the Fathers and the Tradition but stay off here please until you do.
THIS IS ABOUT THE POPES. In addition to bmonk’s ref., I]I see the Pope on EWTN celebrating Mass and he always joins in the I CONFESS - he does not order the sinners out there to do so while he shuts **up.

 

[bmonk]

(Edited)

That said, the Popes are certainly not sinless.

---

Nor does infallibility imply they are sinless–it only speaks of their ability to judge correctly when making a solemn decision on faith and morals. It is interesting that even some Evangelicals apparently hold a similar idea–I find that very many Evangelical ideas are consistent with Catholic doctrine, especially of the early centuries–in the 10th or 11th volume of the Left Behind series, Tsion Ben-Judah, leader of the Jewish converts to Christ, is worried about whether he is the right person for the job.

The other characters speak about the million converts he is responsible for, and ask him if he thinks the Holy Spirit was wrong to choose him, or if the Spirit would now abandon him and leave those million who depend on him in the lurch if he goes astray. He realizes that the Spirit would never do that.

Now, what if it were a billion faithful, that is 1000 times as many? What if, further, the faithful of future generations also depended on that person? Would the Spirit, having been promised, allow him to go astray? But that is exactly the position of the Pope (and college of Bishops), who is promised the support of the Spirit, not for their personal salvation, but for the good of the whole People of God.

 

[bmonk]

For pope to be sinless , he must not be a normal human being…(according to the Scripture … for all have sinned and went short of glory) (Edited as off topic)
Thank you
Glory be to the soon coming Saviour Jesus now and for ever…

So, actually on some points, we agree!

Christ is the center; the Pope and saints point to Christ, or they are obstacles.

The Pope is not sinless.