Do you believe the Flood was a historical event?

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Why didnt God teach Moses English since that is the language most use today? Or why didn’t God teach him advanced mathematics? Because God spoke through the language and understanding of things they had at the time. So, if the entire world to them consisted of the middle East then why would we expect to translate the world as any different using our modern understanding of it. We need to interpret according to the customs and understanding of things they had, not according to our understanding. Since ours is so much different.
Look what Moses learned from God:

Although the Bible is not a scientific book, we know it has a lot of scientific truth in it. Moses is believed to have written the first 5 books of the Bible. He lived 1,500 years before Jesus, science was in it’s embryo stage at best. Moses was not writing science, but if you look at the sequence of Creation he wrote in Genesis it is 100% equal to the sequence that today’s scientists say took place in the span of 4.0+ billion years.
  1. “Let there be light” ==> The Big Bang
  2. “Let the waters below the sky be gathered together in one place and let dry land appear” ==> the birth of “Pangea”, the super continent
  3. “Let the earth produce vegetation, seed-bearing plants, fruittrees bearing fruit with seed, each according to its kind” ==> Plants needed in advance for animal life, Moses even introduces the concept of species (“kind”)!
  4. “Let the water teem with an abundance of living creatures” ==> scientists say life began in the “primeval soup”, at sea
  5. “and let birds fly above the earth” ==> birds appeared after fish as scientists also claim
  6. “Let the earth produce living animals according to their kind” ==> land animals appear after fish and birds as scientists say, and again the concept of species (“kind”)
  7. “Let us make man in our image” ==> the final creature to appear, same as scientists say, man was the last to appear
What are the odds for any person who lived 3,500 years ago to describe the exact sequence of the creation of the universe without any scientific data at hand? 0%, yet Moses nailed it. If having the true sequence of the creation of the universe 3,500 years ago -without being a scientist I must add- does not seem to cause any problem to many reading this thread, why is the flood giving them so much trouble? If God separated the land from the waters, why is it so troublesome that the water got together again just as in the beginning through heavy rain? If the water of the flood causes doubt (where did it go?), why the initial water covering the world is not a big deal (where did it go?)
 
Pangea? Don’t believe those scientists.

You think God would sit around and wait for the world to transfrom over millions of years when He can do what He wants, how He wants, when He wants and all in an instant.
If God was ever short on time, I would agree with you. As it is, I have no idea how what God would view as more important. However, I do believe that while science is very limited truth, what truth we find will not contradict any other truth.
 
Look what Moses learned from God:

Although the Bible is not a scientific book, we know it has a lot of scientific truth in it. Moses is believed to have written the first 5 books of the Bible. He lived 1,500 years before Jesus, science was in it’s embryo stage at best. Moses was not writing science, but if you look at the sequence of Creation he wrote in Genesis it is 100% equal to the sequence that today’s scientists say took place in the span of 4.0+ billion years.
  1. “Let there be light” ==> The Big Bang
  2. “Let the waters below the sky be gathered together in one place and let dry land appear” ==> the birth of “Pangea”, the super continent
  3. “Let the earth produce vegetation, seed-bearing plants, fruittrees bearing fruit with seed, each according to its kind” ==> Plants needed in advance for animal life, Moses even introduces the concept of species (“kind”)!
  4. “Let the water teem with an abundance of living creatures” ==> scientists say life began in the “primeval soup”, at sea
  5. “and let birds fly above the earth” ==> birds appeared after fish as scientists also claim
  6. “Let the earth produce living animals according to their kind” ==> land animals appear after fish and birds as scientists say, and again the concept of species (“kind”)
  7. “Let us make man in our image” ==> the final creature to appear, same as scientists say, man was the last to appear
What are the odds for any person who lived 3,500 years ago to describe the exact sequence of the creation of the universe without any scientific data at hand? 0%, yet Moses nailed it. If having the true sequence of the creation of the universe 3,500 years ago -without being a scientist I must add- does not seem to cause any problem to many reading this thread, why is the flood giving them so much trouble? If God separated the land from the waters, why is it so troublesome that the water got together again just as in the beginning through heavy rain? If the water of the flood causes doubt (where did it go?), why the initial water covering the world is not a big deal (where did it go?)
(2) This describes the dome that separates the waters in the sky. This is the cosmology of their day. Ie the Jewish-Babylonian-Egyptian idea of the flat earth.

Do you notice that the plants were made before the sun. This hardly fits with what know today from plant science. Plants need the sun to survive. If it was just for a day the plants might survive. But the earth made in 7 days does not jibe with scientific knowledge either.
 
Do you notice that the plants were made before the sun. This hardly fits with what know today from plant science. Plants need the sun to survive. If it was just for a day the plants might survive. But the earth made in 7 days does not jibe with scientific knowledge either.
That begs the question can science prove everything?
 
Pangea? Don’t believe those scientists.

You think God would sit around and wait for the world to transfrom over millions of years when He can do what He wants, how He wants, when He wants and all in an instant.
I’m not a young earth Catholic. Sorry. He’s God. He can do what wills.
 
That begs the question can science prove everything?
No it can not prove everything but it can prove that which can be observed and verified. I never stated that science can prove everything but only what the scientific evidence is.

Science is really a method for determining truth. Thus science and religion are not at odds since both seek the truth. Not everything can be proved by science. You can’t prove historical events using a scientific experiment for instance. But you can make a reasonable hypothesis or models of events.

A religious dogma is something that must be accepted by faith and is revelatory in nature. It wasn’t wholey derived from reason but was in some way revealed to us through scripture and Tradition. We may apply reason to this revealed truth to better understand it but its nature is prophetic. The Trinity for instance can not be known through reason but only as revelation.

Science must be derived from facts and observation and verified by repeatable experiments. It is a useful tool to learn about our world and then we can use that knowledge for applications.

Not everything can science prove. So we must have other tools to understand our world.

5 Things science can not prove according to Dr. William Craig:
  1. Logic and Mathematics
  2. Metaphysical truths
  3. Ethical beliefs
  4. Aesthetic judgments
  5. Science itself
 
No one thinks science can. But I would rather ask are there really people who think science can prove nothing?
Personally I don’t have a problem with science but I have met quite a few people, christian or not who rely on science wholly for everything and don’t rely on the common sense that should avail us.

Do I think science and faith can mix? Absolutely, however science (like all occupations) can study things that most people would consider a waste of time, for example a study was released in New Zealand (where I live) a few years ago stating that alcoholics were 4 times more likely to develop problems with their liver. This sort of thing has been common knowledge for more years that I care to count.

When science investigates something that could improve our quality of life or shed light on something else important then by all means go for gold.

The main issue I have is Christians who rely on experiments for belief in God & who have lost that basic element of faith.
 
I voted that it is symbolic, though to me it’s a very puzzling subject, and I’m not very confident about what little understanding I think I have about it. Certainly there seems to be no physical evidence for a world-wide flood, though it’s possible to imagine very complex scenarios in which the physical evidence and the idea of an actual world-wide flood could be reconciled.
Ever seen a National Geographic or Discovery Channel show about Great Plains or the Russian steppes and the narrator says something like “Millions of years ago this was a vast inland sea.” Seashells found in mountain soil, polystratic trees, man made objects found in coal, all give evidence of a world wide flood. Google the topics if you don’t believe me.
 
There was great floods from ice ages 11000 to 14000 years ago. Could these be the source of the flood stories from around the world? I am not sure I would want to speculate. Some seem to say it was Noah’s flood that caused the ice age. Of course this is all speculation on their part.

www.cosmographicresearch.org/ice_age_floods.htm
One thing that seems sure: human history goes back far before we used to think it did, which was about 4000 B.C.
 
To those who think science has nothing to tell us about the flood. reason tells us that because it is described as a natural historical event on a large scale it should have evidence of having happened. That classifies it as being in the area of scientific verification. Another thing to consider is If we take the story literally and it was a worldwide flood and all of the animals in the world were on the ark in pairs then that means all animals we see today would have started from one point on the earth after the flood starting from just one pair. If there has been only a few thousand years for animal to repopulate the earth is that really enough time to see the vast species variation around the world we see today?
 
yes,

"Georges Cuvier, scientist-administrator extraordinaire who firmly established the disciplines of both vertebrate paleontology and comparative anatomy, was a professor of zoology at the College de France who also held an influential post in the Museum d’Histoire Naturelle. [37] He was also a nominal Protestant who, according to his biographer Dorinda Outram, viewed Protestantism as “a series of opportunities rather than as a body of belief.” His handling of the issue of the flood, says Outram, was not motivated by any deep spiritual attachment to Scripture. In his Essay on the Theory of the Earth, an introduction to his monumental multi-volume work on fossil vertebrates, Cuvier proposed that the secondary and tertiary strata had been formed during successive sudden catastrophes caused over long ages by “repeated irruptions and retreats of the sea.” [38]

The idea of multiple catastrophes was suggested by fragmented and overturned strata, the presence of heaps of debris and rounded pebbles found among the solid strata, and the carcasses of large quadrupeds that had been partially preserved in surface deposits of the northern regions. Cuvier maintained that natural catastrophes had caused the permanent extinction of several large mammals such as the mammoth. Cuvier asserted on zoological grounds that the most recent of these catastrophes could not have been very ancient, consistent with the existence of many traditions, including that of Moses, that the globe had suffered a recent catastrophe. Cuvier fully agreed that

“if there is any circumstance thoroughly established in geology, it is, that the crust of our globe has been subjected to a great and sudden revolution, the epoch of which cannot be dated much farther back than five or six thousand years ago; that this revolution had buried all the countries which were before inhabited by men and by the other animals that are now best known; that the same revolution had laid dry the bed of the last ocean, which now forms all the countries at present inhabited; that the small number of individuals of men and other animals that escaped from the effects of that great revolution, have since propagated and spread over the lands then newly laid dry; and consequently, that the human race has only resumed a progressive state of improvement since that epoch, by forming established societies, raising monuments, collecting natural facts, and constructing systems of science and of learning.” [39]

Cuvier stopped just short of an explicit identification of this recent catastrophe with the Mosaic flood"
in order for a fossil to be formed, an organism must be BURIED RAPIDLY. Of all the buffaloes killed when the whites came to the Americas, practically no fossils were formed—because they were not buried rapidly.

There is much evidence that proves the earth is not billions or even millions of years old. This science is rarely discussed. For example, before we landed on the moon, scientists calculated that since the moon was “billions of years old” there should me a great amount of space dust. People like Isaac Asimov predicted that the moonlander would descend out of view into a great layer of dust. But guess what? When we landed on the moon there was only a few THOUSAND years worth of dust accumulated—only a couple centimeters. There are many many unexplainable facts of science that show this earth and universe are young
SHALOM
GOD Bless
 
Yes, because it is spoken by St. Peter in two letters. St Peter is infallible.
 
Any “flood” that occured would have been localized and not world wide…it impacted those in who’s time the account was first related…a “localized history” attributed to an “act of God” and judgement…suffering and destruction was seen at that time as “punishments” of some deity…a flood which destroyed a whole region of a populated area would have been ingrained into the memories of the survivors and “mythologized” to find a deep meaning in the suffering that occured.
 
Ever seen a National Geographic or Discovery Channel show about Great Plains or the Russian steppes and the narrator says something like “Millions of years ago this was a vast inland sea.” Seashells found in mountain soil, polystratic trees, man made objects found in coal, all give evidence of a world wide flood. Google the topics if you don’t believe me.
They give no evidence that all of these places were under the water at the same time, though. Furthermore, I do not think the few weeks Noah was in the Ark was enough for a ecosystem to develop everywhere world wide. Sure God could have just created all this at once for the sake of those few weeks, but it hardly seems consistent with wiping out the world and having Noah start everything.
 
If the Body and Blood of Christ can exist beneath the appearances of wine and bread then the Garden of Eden can exist beneath the appearances of present day Iraq.

If that is true and if it is also true that time doesn’t work the same way here as it does in eternity or aeverternity–just ask St. Thomas Aquinas or high fangled smart physicists–

Genesis can be true and yet SEEM to be in contradiction to what SOME scientists say.

Come on people–this subject is so TIRESOME–use a little bit of imagination!

Do we have to hear from the either/or minds with no imagination?!

I believe the bible and what the Catholic church has to say about the bible.

I believe in science.

How they square with one another–I don’t know–but I don’t know how to create the universe–exactly how many of you geniuses out there know HOW to do that?

I do believe that Jesus ROSE from the dead with a glorified body.

That doesn’t make small minded scientific sense but it doesn’t negate the fact that it is true!

If the universe is true then ANYTHING is possible.

God knows how to do ANYTHING.

He can even give us minds large enough to KNOW that!
 
Aragon John got that right. GEORGES CUVIER! WOOHOO! Father of paleontology, and observer of “Catastrophism.” Evolutionistas had to marginalize uber-observer Georges Cuvier because a laboratory-like setting of constancy was demanded. So no seashells on the Hiimalayas, no dramatic upheaval, could be admitted. Throw out data–and scientists–when not conforming to the atheist-inspired pseudo-science of evolution (now shivering behind punctuated equilibrium; and masked in adaptation) riddled with fraud and mockery, including tinkering around with Neanderthal jaws and dentition to make them more primitive-looking.

It can’t rain without an electrical charge. God sparked that electrical charge and tore the theorized idyllic vapor canopy wide open. It rained forty days and forty nights. Hydraulic pressure burdened the earth and she broke open the fountains of the deep, subterranean water. Waves of translation swept the globe. Mountains were pushed into the sky. And one such highland was the landing site for our Ark-onauts. Thanks, God.
 
There are many many unexplainable facts of science that show this earth and universe are young
I can see where those like Sungenis and Chick who believe in a young earth could also believe in a world wide flood. Fortunately, as Catholics, we have the option of being open to observational evidence, including the 200 years worth of observation since the time of Cuvier. Any dinosaur fans remember the iguanadon goof from that era where they stuck the thumb on the head because they thought it was a dragon?
 
If the Body and Blood of Christ can exist beneath the appearances of wine and bread then the Garden of Eden can exist beneath the appearances of present day Iraq.

If that is true and if it is also true that time doesn’t work the same way here as it does in eternity or aeverternity–just ask St. Thomas Aquinas or high fangled smart physicists–

Genesis can be true and yet SEEM to be in contradiction to what SOME scientists say.

Come on people–this subject is so TIRESOME–use a little bit of imagination!

Do we have to hear from the either/or minds with no imagination?!

I believe the bible and what the Catholic church has to say about the bible.

I believe in science.

How they square with one another–I don’t know–but I don’t know how to create the universe–exactly how many of you geniuses out there know HOW to do that?

I do believe that Jesus ROSE from the dead with a glorified body.

That doesn’t make small minded scientific sense but it doesn’t negate the fact that it is true!

If the universe is true then ANYTHING is possible.

God knows how to do ANYTHING.

He can even give us minds large enough to KNOW that!
I agree, it is very tiresome. But, just as some claim the Bible is not a science book, some of the same people treat it like it it is.

We cannot deny to God the ability to perform miracles and violate what most people call science and its rules.

Pope John Paul II is one miracle away from being declared a saint.

Peace,
Ed
 
Aragon John got that right. GEORGES CUVIER! WOOHOO! Father of paleontology, and observer of “Catastrophism.” Evolutionistas had to marginalize uber-observer Georges Cuvier because a laboratory-like setting of constancy was demanded. So no seashells on the Hiimalayas, no dramatic upheaval, could be admitted. Throw out data–and scientists–when not conforming to the atheist-inspired pseudo-science of evolution (now shivering behind punctuated equilibrium; and masked in adaptation) riddled with fraud and mockery, including tinkering around with Neanderthal jaws and dentition to make them more primitive-looking.

It can’t rain without an electrical charge. God sparked that electrical charge and tore the theorized idyllic vapor canopy wide open. It rained forty days and forty nights. Hydraulic pressure burdened the earth and she broke open the fountains of the deep, subterranean water. Waves of translation swept the globe. Mountains were pushed into the sky. And one such highland was the landing site for our Ark-onauts. Thanks, God.
Thanks : )

Shalom
 
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