Do you believe the Flood was a historical event?

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yes, i believe it was historical event.

i could not support it with scientific and historical fact, but base on my limited knowledge i say that the flood was true.

ancient people believed that the world was flat and it was surrounded by water. that was their world before.

when noah started building the ship, he cutted tres, maybe thousands of tres were cutted just to have a huge ship.

here in the philippines some region suffer from flood because of illegal cutting of tres.

and so. like what had happened to noah’s time, he cutted many tres and the effect was “flood”.

the flood was so great that it covers the whole world (their flat world).

sorry if im not good in grammar and spelling.
 
I agree with much of your thinking. My personal thinking on these subjects are:
  1. Oh, Genesis didn’t literally happen, it’s all symbolic.
    I don’t believe that it is all symbolic. I think that there is a element of both.
Genesis is true history in its truest sense. While the CC does state that symbolic language is used in Genesis, that does not mean that we can disregard Genesis as nothing more than cute stories.

The Church has spoken: Adam and Eve were REAL people. Adam was created from the dust of the ground IMMEDIATELY (no evolution) and Eve was created from the side of Adam.
  1. Our ancestors were hominids who, one day, developed the ability to detect God.
    This is not my vision. I don’t understand the mind of God so I don’t understand how He made this happen.
Fail…see above
  1. The Flood is impossible because science tells me so.
    “The Flood” probably did happen but perhaps only in the known world at that time.
Fail…creation scientists compared to evolutionists have offered compelling evidence that a worldwide flood did indeed happen; exactly as stated in scripture.

Besides, tradition is unanimous in teaching a world wide flood and as a Catholic are compelled to believe it.
The word symbolic is not a bad word unless it is used with the words only and just as in “Only Just Symbolic”
True, but far too many Catholics use that simple word as defense in their almost complete rejection of official Church teaching regarding Genesis.
When I was a girl I was dating a young man who was planning on become a protestant minister. I asked him the first question and he honestly said that he would cease believing in God. At the time I thought that this was so very sad and I still think that this kind of logic is so very sad. To have one’s faith placed on such fragic ground is a mistake.
What is sad is that you consider the word of God and his teaching Church to be “fragic ground”
 
yes, i believe it was historical event.

i could not support it with scientific and historical fact, but base on my limited knowledge i say that the flood was true.

ancient people believed that the world was flat and it was surrounded by water. that was their world before.

when noah started building the ship, he cutted tres, maybe thousands of tres were cutted just to have a huge ship.

here in the philippines some region suffer from flood because of illegal cutting of tres.

and so. like what had happened to noah’s time, he cutted many tres and the effect was “flood”.

the flood was so great that it covers the whole world (their flat world).

sorry if im not good in grammar and spelling.
and if the author of that great flood account lived in palistine or somewhere in palistine, the whole word he meant is only the palistine or the middle east. im not sure if it is correct. just correct me if im wrong.
 
The Church has spoken: Adam and Eve were REAL people. Adam was created from the dust of the ground IMMEDIATELY (no evolution) and Eve was created from the side of Adam."
I think you added the word “immediatedly” in the text.

FYI - If you accept that the Church has spoken about Adam and Eve being real people, understand the Church has also chosen to take no position on whether they came to be through some form of evolution or immediate creation. There is no Church position of the reality or extent of the flood. I personally tend to take the story rather literal, or at least literaly to some degree, but it is not a matter of the faith.
 
Even though the NT authors referred to Adam and Eve as real people, Paul talks about Adam, Peter talks about Eve, does that not seem to give the Holy Spirit’s stamp of approval that they were real? Did sin enter the world through people who didnt really exist?
 
I do believe it was a historical event. Plus, take into account all of the stories from around the world of a global flood and you do have good evidence for it.
 
Yes, I most certainly do beleive that it was a historical event and I say this through the Authority of Scripture which is where we come to know of the actual event.

As for the Eucharistic Miracles, Yes I am aware of them, but these aren’t scientific proof that Transubstantiation does take place, given that not every Host in the world consecrated at every Mass is going through that same physical transformation that we see in those miracles. The simple point is that I beleive in the Real Presence not because Science can prove or dissprove it, rather I accept it on the authority of Chirst and his Church. As Edwest mentioned above, Faith does not need to hold up to science.
The Host (bread) bleeds, it was proven in a lab that it’s tissue from the heart. To the doubter that will suffice. Our protestant brothers reject the Eucharist, at least they should pay close attention to these miracles and think about them. What else does it have to do, talk? Even if the host would talk it would not be enough for many.

This miracle happened to a priest who was doubting the host was the real body and blood of the Lord.That was 1200 years ago, the host we can see today is the same host that the priest hold in his hands that long ago, and it hasn’t decomposed. Leave a piece of regular bread inside a jar in your home and let’s see if it’s the same a year from now.

Allow me to get a bit (a lot?) off topic here to make my point:

What I don’t get is why do so many Catholics have been brainwashed (can’t think of a better word) that everything has to be explained by science. Are scientists infallible and never make a mistake? Is every explanation coming from a scientist DOGMA? As I said in my previous post, these sciences (geology, paleontology, astronomy and such) are not exact sciences, a lot is inferred. For example, when studying the stars scientists have noted that analyzing the light of distant stars it tends to fall to the red or blue of the spectrum. Scientists decided that if it falls to the blue it means the star is moving away from us, if it falls to the red it’s coming toward us (or vice versa, I’m talking from memory here). Is this a proven fact? Does the shifting really mean movement?

I either believe what they say or not. I know they cannot see a star physically “move”, all they have is their light. I have often wondered, if I’m holding a flashlight 1000 miles away from a scientist at night, can he tell me if I’m moving in, out, sideways or not moving at all by analyzing just the light of the flashlight in the spectrum?

These are questions I have in my mind. I cannot prove one way or the other and I guess neither can they. All they have is a ray of light that falls towards the blue or the red. Just as people of ancient time believed the Earth was flat because it was obvious to them, they could see “it was flat”, we will have to believe what they tell about the shifting because that’s what they have at this moment.

With that said, all I wanted was to hammer the fact that these sciences are not exact even though they might appear to be. Besides, these are fairly new sciences, they are still in their infancy, they don’t know it all yet. To me they can’t prove the flood didn’t happen. We have the written account of that event told not just by the Bible.

Back to Transubstantiation: it happens as you say in every consecrated host in every mass in all the world. Science cannot prove it or disprove it. We should leave science at the lab for other matters. We don’t have to expect science to answer all the questions, some of them science can’t answer. Science works only with matter. There is a spiritual world which science can’t detect. I have always said that love cannot be proven scientifically: science cannot tell me its size, weight, smell, color, shape, whether it’s coming or going (no shifting towards red or blue), growing or fainting. But love does exists. And God is Love.
 
The Host (bread) bleeds, it was proven in a lab that it’s tissue from the heart. To the doubter that will suffice. Our protestant brothers reject the Eucharist, at least they should pay close attention to these miracles and think about them. What else does it have to do, talk? Even if the host would talk it would not be enough for many.

This miracle happened to a priest who was doubting the host was the real body and blood of the Lord.That was 1200 years ago, the host we can see today is the same host that the priest hold in his hands that long ago, and it hasn’t decomposed. Leave a piece of regular bread inside a jar in your home and let’s see if it’s the same a year from now.

Allow me to get a bit (a lot?) off topic here to make my point:

What I don’t get is why do so many Catholics have been brainwashed (can’t think of a better word) that everything has to be explained by science. Are scientists infallible and never make a mistake? Is every explanation coming from a scientist DOGMA? As I said in my previous post, these sciences (geology, paleontology, astronomy and such) are not exact sciences, a lot is inferred. For example, when studying the stars scientists have noted that analyzing the light of distant stars it tends to fall to the red or blue of the spectrum. Scientists decided that if it falls to the blue it means the star is moving away from us, if it falls to the red it’s coming toward us (or vice versa, I’m talking from memory here). Is this a proven fact? Does the shifting really mean movement?

I either believe what they say or not. I know they cannot see a star physically “move”, all they have is their light. I have often wondered, if I’m holding a flashlight 1000 miles away from a scientist at night, can he tell me if I’m moving in, out, sideways or not moving at all by analyzing just the light of the flashlight in the spectrum?

These are questions I have in my mind. I cannot prove one way or the other and I guess neither can they. All they have is a ray of light that falls towards the blue or the red. Just as people of ancient time believed the Earth was flat because it was obvious to them, they could see “it was flat”, we will have to believe what they tell about the shifting because that’s what they have at this moment.

With that said, all I wanted was to hammer the fact that these sciences are not exact even though they might appear to be. Besides, these are fairly new sciences, they are still in their infancy, they don’t know it all yet. To me they can’t prove the flood didn’t happen. We have the written account of that event told not just by the Bible.

Back to Transubstantiation: it happens as you say in every consecrated host in every mass in all the world. Science cannot prove it or disprove it. We should leave science at the lab for other matters. We don’t have to expect science to answer all the questions, some of them science can’t answer. Science works only with matter. There is a spiritual world which science can’t detect. I have always said that love cannot be proven scientifically: science cannot tell me its size, weight, smell, color, shape, whether it’s coming or going (no shifting towards red or blue), growing or fainting. But love does exists. And God is Love.
Excellent post. I’d like to add a few things about redshift.

haltonarp.com/articles/faint_quasars_give_conclusive_evidence_for_non_velocity_redshifts

Make sure to read his biography.

There is one more problem. Objects in space moving faster than the speed of light. This is called superluminal.

ned.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/ESSAYS/Cohen/cohen.html

Peace,
Ed
 
I think this is probably the most likely. A flood in the cradle of civilization at the time.
I agree. I think it was a massive flood in that region of the world…but a flood that covered the entire earth? Highly unlikely.
 
I agree. I think it was a massive flood in that region of the world…but a flood that covered the entire earth? Highly unlikely.
Highly unlikely?

Do you know what is more unlikely?

A man dying and rising from the dead.

Bread and Wine turning into the Body and Blood of Christ.
 
I think you added the word “immediatedly” in the text.

FYI - If you accept that the Church has spoken about Adam and Eve being real people, understand the Church has also chosen to take no position on whether they came to be through some form of evolution or immediate creation. There is no Church position of the reality or extent of the flood. I personally tend to take the story rather literal, or at least literaly to some degree, but it is not a matter of the faith.
except that the Church also teaches that death did not come into the world before the Fall, and evolution requires death in order to work. Its entire principle is Natural Selection and the Survival of the Fittest.
 
except that the Church also teaches that death did not come into the world before the Fall, and evolution requires death in order to work. Its entire principle is Natural Selection and the Survival of the Fittest.
Where does the Church teach that?
 
except that the Church also teaches that death did not come into the world before the Fall, and evolution requires death in order to work. Its entire principle is Natural Selection and the Survival of the Fittest.
Where does the Church teach that?
The Church does not teach this, but as I said, allows for the possibility of evolution within guidelines.

Pope Pius XII:
ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P12HUMAN.HTM
For these reasons the Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter
Pope John Paul II
In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation, provided that we do not lose sight of certain fixed points.

…Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than an hypothesis.* In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines.
 
I will disagree that the Church has a position on this, unless someone can show me where. The Early Fathers also believed the Earth was the center of the universe, but they taught theology, not geology. I believe it is a true story, though as Noah did not circumnavigate the globe, it could be true only from that perspective, though it would still be truly miraculous.
Since the universe is still growing, the Earth could be at the center if it ever were to stop growing. I think maybe you are referring to the sun revolving around the earth, that is wrong, but was not that the astrologists’ opinion at the time, and not the Early Fathers?
 
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