Do you believe there is one true church?

[Chancellare]

This goes right to what I am saying. You cannot just lump all Protestants together so that you can call the Catholic church a minority in the US. Case and point, would you ever see a Baptist minister preach in a Methodist church?? Obviously the answer is no. And for the second time, I did not say suppress I said the way in which Catholics TREAT Protestants. Vast difference and you know it!

Excuse me. It was a survey and respondent said they ARE PROTESTANTS and they were counted. It was the respondents who lumped themselves not we.

So back to the facts please. Don’t split Protestants just because it fits your argument.

 

[RNRobert]

And in finding common cause, American Protestants generally shared - at the very least - a tacit understanding of the wrongs of “Romanism”. Please learn a little of the history of the Catholic Church in the US - always a minority party, and frequently the target of discrimination (look up “Know Nothing Party” Read about the Kennedy campaign.)

Also read about Al Smith- the Catholic governor of NY who ran on the Democratic ticket in the 1928 presidential election. The anti-Catholic smear campaign against him was as bad as Kennedy’s, if not worse.

 

[Swamp_Yankee]

Ladies and Gentelmen, what a fine discussion! If I could, I would like to boil down the entire conversion to one question. When all is said and done, will only one denomination go to heaven? Is the heavenly Kingdom populated only by SDA’s, or only Baptists, or ONLY anything? Does God accept the catholic only and reject all others?

 

[contramundum7]

I believe that the Catholic church has used unspeakable arrogance for centuries to convince folks that their’s is the one true church. They are no better that the Jehovah’s Witnesses or the L.D.S. Jesus didn’t preach one and only one true church, this is an infamous misconception of scripture that your magisterium has used to keep the meal ticket working for all these centuries. Look at your popes and the Vatican. The popes are carried into and out of the mass and the Vatican is just grossly crawling with riches upon unfathomable wealth. Peter on the otherhand was a poor fisherman. He never even claimed to be infallible and in fact claimed just the opposite. Peter wasn’t even all that smart. And in fact he was the bishop of Jerusalem much longer than he was ever the bishop of Rome. In fact, it was in Rome where Peter was crucified upside down. Absolutely no connection to who the early church’s leader was then and whom he SUPPOSEDLY is today. The Catholic church is NOT the one and only church of Christ.

You sound as though you believe that there is no one true Church?
Well, u know, i have thought many of the same things as you say in your Post. I have been sorely disappointed in the Church over the years… (long, long story). Even so, i am still Roman Catholic…
You say Peter never said he was infallible. No Catholic ever said that either. Infallible things came out of Peter’s mouth (like when he said that Jesus was the Christ, the son of the living God), but no Catholic has ever claimed that Peter himself and every utterance he’s ever made is/was infallible… The pope is not infallible either… His teachings are only infallible when he speaks ex-cathedra (from the Chair of Peter), when he is teaching official Church doctrine… There are many criteria for his words being considered infallible.
And Jesus did speak of “My Church” (Matthew 16:18). He said the gates of Hell would not prevail over it. He never promised that the gates of Hell would not prevail over INDIVIDUALs… The devil is too strong for us as individuals… but the Real Presence of Christ dwells, physically, in the Roman Catholic Church 24/7…
The pope lives in a very simple “room” with a simple bed, a table and chair… There is not even any air conditioning in his room, or at least there wasn’t as of a couple years ago… the Church spends its money on good works thoughout the world. I ought to know - i give money to many Catholic endeavors over-seas…
If the pope is carried into the Church for Mass, t hat is news to me. But even if so, it doesn’t mean what u imply… Jesus was carried into Jerusalem… right? The pope represents Jesus on Earth… Jesus said he would be with us always - and he meant in a very real, tangible way…
I believe the Church is centered in Rome mostly because Rome at that time was the center of the civilized world…
Did you know that the RC Church is, as Jesus said in Matt 16:18, literally, built on Peter? His bones are buried under the Church in Rome…
“Thou art Peter and on this rock, i will build my Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.”
2007 years and counting…

 

[RNRobert]

Ladies and Gentelmen, what a fine discussion! If I could, I would like to boil down the entire conversion to one question. When all is said and done, will only one denomination go to heaven? Is the heavenly Kingdom populated only by SDA’s, or only Baptists, or ONLY anything? Does God accept the catholic only and reject all others?

The Catholic Church does recognize those in other Christian communities who’ve received a valid trinitarian baptism as fellow Christians.

 

[contramundum7]

Ladies and Gentelmen, what a fine discussion! If I could, I would like to boil down the entire conversion to one question. When all is said and done, will only one denomination go to heaven? Is the heavenly Kingdom populated only by SDA’s, or only Baptists, or ONLY anything? Does God accept the catholic only and reject all others?

The Catholic Church teaches that All can be saved, even if one is not Christian… but it is much easier to be saved when one belongs to and participates in, the One True Church that he established…

I’ve been outside the Church and i have been inside. Being in the Church is not always a picnic… (because of the members of the Church…) but being inside is, nonetheless Better…
I’m told it is better to do one’s Purgatory here on Earth… that to do Purgatory in the next life is like paying a million dollars for soemthing you could have gotten for a penny. A saint said that…
so, even though i suffer in many ways as a Catholic, i know that my sufferings are getting me closer to Heaven…
“Work out your salvation with fear and trembling…” (Philippians 2:12).
“Fear of God is the beginning of all wisdom” (Old Testament… Psalms??)

 

[teachccd]

I never said suppressed I simply said the way Catholics treat Protestants. And again, you are not a minority so please don’t play the victim role here. There are more Catholics in this country than any other denomination. I realize that we do the math differently because I will not lump all Protestants together as most Catholics would and the reason is because there are huge differences in belief and doctrine among a variety of so called Protestant denominations.

All claiming truth…

 

[guanophore]

I believe that the Catholic church has used unspeakable arrogance for centuries to convince folks that their’s is the one true church.

This is an interesting read, since I just got off a thread with a bunch of OSAS posters who are convinced they are elect, and nothing can stop them from being saved. The Catholic Church says they are having arrogant presumption upon the mercy of God.

Jesus didn’t preach one and only one true church,

Actually, He did! He also spoke of how important is unity. “FAther, that they may all be one, as you and I are one, that all may know that you have sent me.” Surely you cannot deny that the fractures in the Body of Christ are a poor witness to Him?!

this is an infamous misconception of scripture that your magisterium has used to keep the meal ticket working for all these centuries.

Actually, I think the meal ticket has been vastly compromised by this teaching. If the Catholic Church were more accomodating of Protestants, more money would be coming in!

Look at your popes and the Vatican. The popes are carried into and out of the mass and the Vatican is just grossly crawling with riches upon unfathomable wealth.

I think you may have a skewed perception of these situations.

Peter on the otherhand was a poor fisherman. He never even claimed to be infallible and in fact claimed just the opposite. Peter wasn’t even all that smart. And in fact he was the bishop of Jerusalem much longer than he was ever the bishop of Rome.

Peter was, indeed, and humble man, and would not let others even kneel in front of him. There are many leaders today that would do well to follow that example, both in and out of the Catholic Church. Infallibility is not a claim that is made by Peter, or the successors of Peter. It is a promise that Christ gave to Him, and it is based on the divine character of Christ, not the fallen character of mankind. I also think you are confusing infallibility with inerrancy , and those are two separate matters. The fact that Peter was not “learned” is even more a testimony to the grace of God in leaving Peter in charge of His flock. It was Peter’s faith, not his smarts, that Jesus counted on to succeed.

I don’t think Peter was ever Bishop of Jerusalem. I think James was Bishop. But, I think He might have been in Antioch, and you are right, only spent his few last years and his blood in Rome.

In fact, it was in Rome where Peter was crucified upside down. Absolutely no connection to who the early church’s leader was then and whom he SUPPOSEDLY is today. The Catholic church is NOT the one and only church of Christ.

I think you will have to check your early church fathers for the primacy of the see of Rome. If you enter this in the “search” you will find a lot of good posts on that here in the forum.

Another error you are making is conflating the visible church with the invisible. Since Christ only started one church, there is only one. He does not have more than one Body. There is only one body of christ. All who belong to Christ are members of it.

 

[StMarkEofE]

Is there only one true Christian church?

I would like your answer to this question.

In other words: Did Jesus intend for there to be so many different churches? Why / why not??

I believe that there is only one true church and Christ said that they all be one.

 

[Efrain]

Come on, that is just self-serving man. I am an ex cradle Catholic turned Anglican and was is and always will be rock solid in the Eucharist and the body and blood of Christ, not symbolism make no mistake. As for the Catholic church being the only church, nothing proves that even though I do believe in most all teachings of the Catholic church as do most Anglicans.

No matter how much you claim that you beleive in the Eucharist it can only be a symbol in your church. The reason being that your “priests” do not have the authority of transubstantiation of the Eucharist. In your case and with all other “churches” the Eucharist will always be a symbol.

 

[Sixtus]

 

[Chancellare]

Ladies and Gentelmen, what a fine discussion! If I could, I would like to boil down the entire conversion to one question. When all is said and done, will only one denomination go to heaven? Is the heavenly Kingdom populated only by SDA’s, or only Baptists, or ONLY anything? Does God accept the catholic only and reject all others?

Even the criteria of who will go to heaven is not clear among the different groups of Protestants. Some say only the Elect will go to heaven and the rest are consigned to go to hell no matter what they do.

The Catholic believes in an infinitely merciful God that only those who deliberately reject God and disobey His teachings until the time of his death will go to hell.

Your question now perhaps will be:
Will those who insist in following an erroneous teaching even when already informed of such error, go to heaven?

 

[Traveller1534]

The Catholic Church does recognize those in other Christian communities who’ve received a valid trinitarian baptism as fellow Christians.

This is so self righteous it makes me just about want to puke! I cannot for the life of me believe that Catholics can be so thick headed as to think that they are the only one and true church that Christ founded. Just because the name “Roman Catholic” has stood over the centuries certainly and positively doesn’t mean that the same beliefs and the same practices by the same ordained ministry by succession takes place even today. This is a total misconception of truth. The Catholic church has changed its position and changed its practices on many counts over the years. This total misrepresentation to the parishioners and the lies and deceitment is precisely why I left the Catholic church 4 years ago!

 

[guanophore]

The Catholic church has changed its position and changed its practices on many counts over the years. This total misrepresentation to the parishioners and the lies and deceitment is precisely why I left the Catholic church 4 years ago!

Can you please explain more about this, Traveller? What “lies and deceitment” drove you to the Anglican church?

Also, do you equate changes in rule/discipline to be the same as changes in doctrine?

 

[Traveller1534]

Changes such as Vatican 2 and so fourth. These were not just mere changes but alterations to ancient traditions. I became Anglican because Anglicanism sticks to ancient traditions such as kneeling to take the Eucharist, and giving both the body and blood. We also do not have Ordinary time on our liturgical kalender because this was a change made by the Catholic church. We still count the Sunday’s after the seasons of Epiphany and Pentecost just like they did in the early church. We also do not practice authoritarianism because the early church was not. This is what the split in the 11th century involving the Romans and the Orthodox was about. You can just make changes and then say that you are the one and only entity that may do so and then still call it the original teachings of Christ. Not so!

 

[Ani_Ibi]

The popes are carried into and out of the mass and the Vatican is just grossly crawling with riches upon unfathomable wealth.

A wealth based on the value placed on the treasures by Catholics themselves.

An example: A friend of mine painted Padre Pio for his first Feast. The materials cost $80. By the time the painting was blessed and donated to Fr Ramon who was in a coma from being run over by a car on World Youth Day, it was beyond price. (Fr Ramon by the way recovered.)

Now let’s say the Catholic Church was to capitulate and hand over all Her treasures to John Hagee or someone like him, what would happen to the treasures? Technically folks who create strawmen about the Church’s treasures, claim to have no use for the treasures because they are ‘idols.’ So all that ‘treasure’ technically would be burned. That’s a bit of a dog-in-the-manger attitude isn’t it?

Also much of the treasures were commissioned, created, or bought by secular authorities.

Also much of Catholic art was used to instruct the people over the course of centuries when over 90% of the Church was illiterate, poor, or members of the non-leisure class laity. Most Catholics certainly had no access to or use for Bibles even after the Bible was compiled.

 

[Traveller1534]

I have a response to this; “uhhhh, What?!”… I simply made a valid and solid statement that what the catholic church claims to be a succession to Peter does not resemble him nor what scripture says about him in the least. Can you show me in scripture where Peter was carried around in a chariot by Vatican officers and how he stood as an authoritarian alone for the entire church to follow as directed??

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Traveller1534:

Excuse me for being so bold sir but these FEW men you refer to are in your church’s own doctrine as those who are in the place of Christ behind the altar in the only church where the sacrements are trully celebrated, so before you go making excuses for your infallible church, you had better check the facts and the seriousness of the situation.

Infallible church? What are you talking about?

As for the few men: you do realize that those whom you so liberally accuse number far fewer in the Catholic Church than in any other group?

And may I be so bold as to remind you of the pot and the kettle? You talk as though Catholic priests are the only offenders, which is an absurdity of the very first order.

Traveller1534:

This makes me nausiated to put Christ into the same line as these priests.

That hasn’t stopped you, though, has it?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

I have a response to this; “uhhhh, What?!”… I simply made a valid and solid statement that what the catholic church claims to be a succession to Peter does not resemble him nor what scripture says about him in the least. Can you show me in scripture where Peter was carried around in a chariot by Vatican officers and how he stood as an authoritarian alone for the entire church to follow as directed??

Red herring. This does not respond in any way shape or form to what I posted.

 

[Traveller1534]

well I guess you are in a state of extreme or should I call it magisterial denial about the travesties that MANY priests in your church have caused. If the numbers are so many less than other churches, then show me who else has over a billion dollars in lawsuits pending for sexually abusing children???