Do you believe you can follow God by devoting to the Catholic faith?

[Lenten_ashes]

Exactly.

Her answer presupposes that denominations are only options that contain unnecessary teachings. If a person chooses to accept one of those teachings, fine. But they’re not following a teaching which is necessary for salvation.

Catholics don’t buy that presupposition. All of the things that this person might view as being unnecessary we would say are quite necessary and, indeed, are Apostolic in origin. Moreover, we see denominations as being various points in a gradation of dissent from Christ’s Church. They’re not simple window dressing, they’re not Okay for some but not Okay for others. They’re wrong. And while not everyone who belongs to a particular denomination might be in a state of mortal sin, and while they may even have a great deal of holiness, this is not due to their formal dissent from the Church, but through God’s mercy and their ignorance.

Most importantly of all: the Catholic Church is not a denomination. It IS Christianity as Christ intends it to be, complete with all the requisite pieces in place.

I think the standard feel on this is don’t give the Church any authority…any church. Because in their minds, Catholicism had that and they messed it up. So better and safer to become a church unto yourself.

Of course i totally disagree with all that. But i understand their rational.

 

[pianistclare]

You might get more comprehensive answers if you re-worded the title.
“devoting: is not the word.”

We can be faithful, practicing Catholics. Faithful to the Magisterium, and the teachings of Christ. We can believe the Catholic church is the Church instituted by Christ. We following and adhere to the teachings of the Catholic Church, the Popes, and the Saint,

Devoting is the wrong word leading to incorrect connotations, as I think we have seen by the responses.

 

[elohimrules]

The Catholic church is our mother. If we listen to her we shall not be steered wrong. She leads us into all truth if we follow her teachings and listen to her leaders. I believe the Catholic church is the Way. That Christ created this church and has kept her pure throughout the ages in doctrine. He is present in the Eucharist and with us always. He gives us His mother to be our mother. What fellowship does light have with darkness? Not all ways are the path to God. But God is merciful and will judge us and the whole world on what we know. The enemy has created many false ways. Be careful that you test the spirits and walk in the truth.

 

[JonNC]

I think the standard feel on this is don’t give the Church any authority…any church. Because in their minds, Catholicism had that and they messed it up. So better and safer to become a church unto yourself.

Of course i totally disagree with all that. But i understand their rational.

Do you find that to be the case in the writings of most non-catholic communions? I ask because that was not my experience in my catechesis.

 

[DanielStDominic]

When I read about prayer in the Bible, it’s always an act of worship.

As always in these discussions, this answer presupposes that Sola Scriptura is true, and that therefore any doctrine must be found in the Bible in some sort of explicit or even implicit manner (in the eyes of the exegete) in order for it be followed.

And as always, we Catholics deny that this teaching is itself Biblical, and therefore believe that it’s self-refuting.

But let’s set that aside.

I would say and admit that all examples of Biblical prayers are at the very least a sort of sub-species of worship, because they have God as their final end, and assume His power and willingness to aid those who love Him, even if the prayers themselves are not direct praise per se. And indeed, there are examples of non-praise prayer in the Bible.

But that’s the rub. All prayer to the Saints is also ultimately directed at God as its final end, and thus itself could be stated as being a sub-species of worship of Him.*

 

[DanielStDominic]

But i understand their rational.

I agree: subjectivism and using the Bible to figure out all truth necessary for salvation all on one’s own is at the heart of Protestantism. Even if authorities are utilized, they are only seen as being advisors, and can be thrown out at any moment.

 

[snowcree]

Mark 9:40 – For he that is not against us is for us.

 

[DanielStDominic]

Do you find that to be the case in the writings of most non-catholic communions? I ask because that was not my experience in my catechesis.

Excuse me for jumping in, but the authority that confessional Protestants put in their very confessions of faith is ultimately rooted in their own individual and subjective understanding of Scripture.

No Protestant believes that a particular confession of faith is valid based on the authority of the ones who wrote it.

 

[Kliska]

Ok, that is better than what I was understanding.

Still, there is a bit of “relativity” in your view, no?

What I mean is you say we can loyally follow either a Protestant denomination faith or the Catholic faith, and still be following God.

Trust me, I realize there are many genuine Christian communities, and so it is very possible to follow the same catholic (universal) faith whether one is Catholic or Protestant. But would God lead one person to join the Catholic Church, and his neighbor a Protestant church?

No relativity, just order of importance. Again, you switch around what I would normally say, and that’s fine, it’s just a difference in wording. I say we can loyally and faithfully follow God first and foremost and trust Him to guide all true seekers where they need to be, IF they listen. That’s it; there’s no hidden Catholic bashing anywhere in what I’m saying, or a support of subjectivism.

 

[Kliska]

You might get more comprehensive answers if you re-worded the title.
“devoting: is not the word.”

We can be faithful, practicing Catholics. Faithful to the Magisterium, and the teachings of Christ. We can believe the Catholic church is the Church instituted by Christ. We following and adhere to the teachings of the Catholic Church, the Popes, and the Saint,

Devoting is the wrong word leading to incorrect connotations, as I think we have seen by the responses.

I think “devoting” is another word that has connotations to people that vary widely. I’m not saying anyone is wrong or right, I’m saying I wouldn’t tend to use that word that way.

 

[Wesrock]

To fully devote oneself to the practice of the Catholic faith is the way to most fully devote oneself to following Jesus.

 

[JonNC]

Excuse me for jumping in, but the authority that confessional Protestants put in their very confessions of faith is ultimately rooted in their own individual and subjective understanding of Scripture.

No Protestant believes that a particular confession of faith is valid based on the authority of the ones who wrote it.

What they believe is that confessions are a right reflection of scripture. That’s the authority. It isnt individual or subjective. It fact, sola scriptura is supposed to prevent that type of thinking.
I think that, in most cases, this is just as much a mis-characterization of those in many non -Catholic communions as the the idolatry charge against Catholics.

 

[TomFromMD]

When I read about prayer in the Bible, it’s always an act of worship. I do see verses about the intercession of the Holy Spirit, but not intercession of the saints who are with the Lord.

Do a search for “pray thee” in a bible (e.g. ASV, KJV) , and you’ll find a bunch of references. The word “pray” is often used to indicate a sincere request.

Genesis 50:17, KJV

So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him.

Judges 6:18, KJV

Depart not hence, I pray thee, until I come unto thee, and bring forth my present, and set it before thee. And he said, I will tarry until thou come again.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Do you find that to be the case in the writings of most non-catholic communions? I ask because that was not my experience in my catechesis.

Not necessarily any writings, just life experience and day to day interactions with them.

Now, the Anglicans would be the exception, from my experience. The faithful ones from whatever conservative parishes that are left out there do believe in church authority and trusting in the clergy. Just not to the extent that we do as Catholics.

 

[rcwitness]

You might get more comprehensive answers if you re-worded the title.
“devoting: is not the word.”

We can be faithful, practicing Catholics. Faithful to the Magisterium, and the teachings of Christ. We can believe the Catholic church is the Church instituted by Christ. We following and adhere to the teachings of the Catholic Church, the Popes, and the Saint,

Devoting is the wrong word leading to incorrect connotations, as I think we have seen by the responses.

I think “devoting” is another word that has connotations to people that vary widely. I’m not saying anyone is wrong or right, I’m saying I wouldn’t tend to use that word that way.

I didn’t say “devote to the Church” but “devote to the Catholic faith”.

I use devote in the Biblical sense… such as in Acts 2:42

 

[pianistclare]

I didn’t say “devote to the Church” but “devote to the Catholic faith”.

I use devote in the Biblical sense… such as in Acts 2:42

It’s still an odd way to express what you mean, as witness by the wide response.
Devoting is not a verb. I’m not sure it’s even a word properly used in this particular context.

 

[Vico]

I also asked this question to a Christian, who I respect, and she replied with this:
We are having a problem with this one because I would never describe myself as being devoted to a particular group within Christianity, but I would always describe myself as being devoted to God and Jesus. Because I’m devoted to God and Jesus I’m willing to follow Him where He leads, and I’m assuming other Christians devoted to God would as well.
This answer implies that devotion to the Catholic faith would restrict one from following God and Jesus. Does this mean we need to follow all denominations in order to follow Jesus?

I’m a little confused by this.

Catholics believe in one Church of Christ which subsists fully in the Catholic Church. There are many ecclessial communities and sister churches that do not have the full faith. So some non-Catholics believe in denominationalism, which seems to be the case for this person who uses the phrase: “to a particular group within Christianity”.

 

[Wannano]

Do you believe that if you faithfully devoted yourself to the Catholic faith, that you would be able to serve, worship, and obey Jesus?

This is a very interesting question. The crux of it for me are the words “faithful” and “able.” I know many Catholics who are faithfully devoted to the Catholic faith but are not faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church. Certainly Catholics are able to serve, worship and obey Jesus but unfortunately some do not even though they are faithfully devoted to the Catholic faith. This is also true of other Christians as well.

 

[Memaw]

This is a very interesting question. The crux of it for me are the words “faithful” and “able.” I know many Catholics who are faithfully devoted to the Catholic faith but are not faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church. Certainly Catholics are able to serve, worship and obey Jesus but unfortunately some do not even though they are faithfully devoted to the Catholic faith. This is also true of other Christians as well.

How can one be “faithfully” devoted to the Catholic Faith and NOT be faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church, Can’t have it both ways. We can only try to fool ourselves but we will NEVER fool God. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Wannano]

How can one be “faithfully” devoted to the Catholic Faith and NOT be faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church, Can’t have it both ways. We can only try to fool ourselves but we will NEVER fool God. God Bless, Memaw

You are right in that we fool only ourselves but we will never fool God.