Do you belive other gods exist?

[Cider]

The First Commandment says that we should have no other gods before/besides God.

So do we as Catholics or even if you are not Catholic do you believe that other gods exist or not?

It is kind of funny that the Bible/Torah says that, if there are no other Gods. It’s one thing I haven’t been able to reconcile, the wording doesn’t make sense if there are no other Gods. Why not just say, you shall not pray to false gods? I would have to drag out my Torah commentary to refresh my memory as to what it says regarding this passages meaning.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I would have to drag out my Torah commentary to refresh my memory as to what it says regarding this passages meaning.

Well, I would be interested if you had the time to do that.

 

[Cider]

Well, I would be interested if you had the time to do that.

It’s in a box since I moved about a month ago, but off the top of my head what I remember is that the scripture telling the Israelites “you shall have no God before me” is referring to the relationship between YHVH and the Israelites. IE he is the exclusive God of their “nation” as it were, and they are to worship only him. Since there were many different cults worshipping a variety of Gods in the Palestine/Levant area at the time.

I once made my husband translate the original Hebrew from that passage for me but he’s at work at the moment and I can’t remember what it was it’s been so long now.

Of course the above interpretation doesn’t exactly jive with the Catholic view, since it emphasizes the tribal nature of YHVH, over the Catholic universal view. Which is why it doesn’t make total sense to the Catholic mind when taken at it’s original meaning, as the Jews saw it.

 

[dshix]

It is interesting to me how Contarini attempts to dominate the discussion by presuming to define “gods” as he wishes. It is also interesting how he presumes to know what the OP meant by “gods” in the original post. Post #47.

Methinks everyone must agree on what exactly we are talking about when we say "gods,’ before Contarini tells them that they “misunderstand the question,” or are having “linguistic confusion.”

 

[dshix]

It is kind of funny that the Bible/Torah says that, if there are no other Gods. It’s one thing I haven’t been able to reconcile, the wording doesn’t make sense if there are no other Gods. Why not just say, you shall not pray to false gods? I would have to drag out my Torah commentary to refresh my memory as to what it says regarding this passages meaning.

The reason the First Commandment says it in this way is because it is not just speaking of other deities. It is also speaking of worldly attachments which we value more than God himself. This could be money, fame, reputation, talent, pleasure, possession, or any number of other things.

The First Commandment is essentially saying that we must put all worldly things behind God, including other gods.

 

[Skadi]

The First Commandment says that we should have no other gods before/besides God.

So do we as Catholics or even if you are not Catholic do you believe that other gods exist or not?

Yes, i believe there are other gods out there, but I dont know which ones are real or associate myself with them. I have my Gods and thats all I need.

 

[Contarini]

It is interesting to me how Contarini attempts to dominate the discussion by presuming to define “gods” as he wishes. It is also interesting how he presumes to know what the OP meant by “gods” in the original post. Post #47.

Methinks everyone must agree on what exactly we are talking about when we say "gods,’ before Contarini tells them that they “misunderstand the question,” or are having “linguistic confusion.”

I’m happy to be corrected by the OP. But nearly all the responses are irrelevant to the OP, since the OP said explicitly as a starting point that of course the worship of other gods is wrong.

Responding “obviously there are no other gods, because we aren’t to worship them” makes no sense in light of the OP.

I am defining “gods” in a manner that actually makes sense of the interactions between Christianity and paganism, particularly in the early Church, rather than in a straw-man fashion.

Edwin

 

[Cider]

Yes, this is the Non-Catholic forum after all.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

I don’t neccessarily deny devils who have claimed to be gods.

 

[Lokadottir]

Christianity is not soul insurance.

Forgive me. That was an insensitive oversimplification. I’ll try again. Christians believe that through Christ their souls are saved from Hell. One could argue with a belief in the afterlife and a belief that one is spared from damnation would be enough to curb the fear of physical death. Again I apologize.

 

[rfournier103]

Umm… No. :dts:

 

[Cider]

Well, I would be interested if you had the time to do that.

Instead of searching boxes I just went to the Chabad website since they have the Tanakh with the original Hebrew and an English translation. I’ve noticed in the past that many times the Christian translations do not match the original Hebrew so I like to double check. From the complete Jewish Bible with Rashi commentary:

Exodus 20:3

You shall not have the gods of others in My presence. לֹא יִהְיֶה לְךָ אֱלֹהִים אֲחֵרִים עַל פָּנַי:

Christians generally interpret the “before me” translation as “more than me” or higher than me or even equal to me.

The “in my presence” translation seem to be more in line with the whole, YHVH being the God of the Israelites ( I brought you out of Egypt is stated just prior to this passage) and seems to reinforce the idea of national boundaries.

Reminds me of the other commandment so often mistranslated, “thou shall not kill” is actually murder.

 

[Skadi]

Instead of searching boxes I just went to the Chabad website since they have the Tanakh with the original Hebrew and an English translation. I’ve noticed in the past that many times the Christian translations do not match the original Hebrew so I like to double check. From the complete Jewish Bible with Rashi commentary:

Exodus 20:3

You shall not have the gods of others in My presence. לֹא יִהְיֶה לְךָ אֱלֹהִים אֲחֵרִים עַל פָּנַי:

Christians generally interpret the “before me” translation as “more than me” or higher than me or even equal to me.

The “in my presence” translation seem to be more in line with the whole, YHVH being the God of the Israelites ( I brought you out of Egypt is stated just prior to this passage) and seems to reinforce the idea of national boundaries.

Reminds me of the other commandment so often mistranslated, “thou shall not kill” is actually murder.

And right here is how I believe in my gods but dont necessarily disbelieve in YHWH. I see him, existent or not, as the Jewish god. Nothing more or less.

 

[dshix]

I’m happy to be corrected by the OP. But nearly all the responses are irrelevant to the OP, since the OP said explicitly as a starting point that of course the worship of other gods is wrong.

Responding “obviously there are no other gods, because we aren’t to worship them” makes no sense in light of the OP.

I am defining “gods” in a manner that actually makes sense of the interactions between Christianity and paganism, particularly in the early Church, rather than in a straw-man fashion.

Edwin

I beg to differ. The OP asked the question, essentially, of whether or not the other pagan Gods mentioned in the Bible actually do exist at all.

I agree with you that if we take these gods to be demons or other beings then the answer could possibly be yes, but you cannot decide what the definition of “gods” actually is, and if you do, your statement must be conditional.

There are two possible definitions here, as I understand:

1: “God” means a supernatural being that has great or infinite power intrinsic to him/her/itself, and is capable of creation. A necessary being.

1. “God” means a supernatural or otherwise more powerful being that is greater than other normal beings, and considered capable of some power. Not a necessary being.

If we answer the question in consideration of the first definition, the answer is no. There cannot be two such Gods.

If we answer the question in consideration of the second definition the answer is “maybe.” It is certainly possible, and pagan Gods could be considered to have some existing being behind them (Church Fathers teach these were demons) but there is no evidence for it. Furthermore, the True God of Israel and Christianity is the only one which has consistently manifested His existence through miracles and other means.

---

For anyone to say that either of these definitions given by someone else is “wrong” would be incorrect, because either answer could be relevant to the question based on the point of view.

I further wonder why you didn’t make this answer I have, Contarini, in answering the question from both points of view, if you knew so well what the answer was.

 

[jsaldar]

Nope.

 

[Contarini]

Forgive me. That was an insensitive oversimplification. I’ll try again. Christians believe that through Christ their souls are saved from Hell. One could argue with a belief in the afterlife and a belief that one is spared from damnation would be enough to curb the fear of physical death. Again I apologize.

But this faith isn’t knowledge. It’s faith. In very holy people it does overcome the fear of death.

Also, while many Christians speak about their souls being saved from hell, that isn’t really the best or most orthodox way to speak of it. We believe that in Christ we have been made sharers in God’s life, and that our bodies and souls will be raised from death. We have to go through death first. And death is intrinsically scary.

On the other hand, there’s also St. Francis’ “sister death.” Again, this is the point of view of a great saint whose life was filled with God’s life. It’s an ideal, not necessarily something that should come easily.

Some people seem to be free from the fear of death because they don’t really take death seriously. Others because the fear is mastered by love and faith. These attitudes may seem superficially the same, but are radically different.

Edwin

 

[Lokadottir]

And right here is how I believe in my gods but dont necessarily disbelieve in YHWH. I see him, existent or not, as the Jewish god. Nothing more or less.

Same. I tilt my hat (metaphorically, I rarely wear hats) whenever I’m forced in close quarters with Jesus, but I don’t worship him.

 

[Contarini]

Same. I tilt my hat (metaphorically, I rarely wear hats) whenever I’m forced in close quarters with Jesus, but I don’t worship him.

But why? What or who do you believe Jesus is? Are you simply honoring the faith/imagination of your fellow human beings, or do you believe that there is some reality behind the figure whom we worship as Jesus Christ, the Logos Incarnate?

Edwin

 

[Skadi]

Same. I tilt my hat (metaphorically, I rarely wear hats) whenever I’m forced in close quarters with Jesus, but I don’t worship him.

agreed, i respect Christianity like I do all religions, but when im forced by circumstance to sit through mass I will not participate, no matter how much my mother jabs me in the ribs.

 

[Skadi]

But why? What or who do you believe Jesus is? Are you simply honoring the faith/imagination of your fellow human beings, or do you believe that there is some reality behind the figure whom we worship as Jesus Christ, the Logos Incarnate?

Edwin

No, i simply have respect for the people who worship him. Even if you dont believe a religion you can still respect it.