Do you belive other gods exist?

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Lokadottir said:
Lets leave homosexuals out of this please? I’m requesting some respect for others beliefs.
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Like those innocent businessmen who gun each other down in the street and make their money on the backs of the addicted? I should respect their beliefs too?
 
Elizium23 said:
Like those innocent businessmen who gun each other down in the street and make their money on the backs of the addicted? I should respect their beliefs too?
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Did you really just equate murder and taking advantage of the addicted to anal sex? (and yes you at the very least implicitly did so by offering this response to my request to leave homosexuals out of it)
And yes you should respect their beleifs. Because they are people too. Show that famous Christ-like love!
 
Elizium23 said:
Like those innocent businessmen who gun each other down in the street and make their money on the backs of the addicted? I should respect their beliefs too?
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If they are so bad why do you have a problem with them gunning eachother down in the streets? serious question. As long as they dont harm others why cant they blow each other away all they want?
 
You seem to misunderstand Christ and what He stands for. There are beliefs unworthy of respect. There are actions unworthy of endorsement and acceptance. Christ was forcefully clear in both his mercy and slowness to anger as well as his condemnation of various types of sin. To the woman caught in adultery He said “go and sin no more.” To the woman at the well he exposed her sin for what it was, and offered her the repentance of baptism.

Christian love is about equal parts of mercy and fraternal correction. If we see a brother or sister in sin then it is a sin to remain silent or accept their actions! We are compelled to lead each other to repentance and holiness. True love is concern for the soul and salvation of others.
 
Elizium23 said:
You seem to misunderstand Christ and what He stands for. There are beliefs unworthy of respect. There are actions unworthy of endorsement and acceptance. Christ was forcefully clear in both his mercy and slowness to anger as well as his condemnation of various types of sin. To the woman caught in adultery He said “go and sin no more.” To the woman at the well he exposed her sin for what it was, and offered her the repentance of baptism.

Christian love is about equal parts of mercy and fraternal correction. If we see a brother or sister in sin then it is a sin to remain silent or accept their actions! We are compelled to lead each other to repentance and holiness. True love is concern for the soul and salvation of others.
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You phrase that very well. But this is where we differ significantly. This concept is what has lead some people today to see devout Christians as self-righteous, arrogant, and bigots. Why do the Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons knock on doors? Why is history full of Christian leaders using missionary work as a pretext to oppress non-christians? Why every day are there politicians trying to legislate Christianity into our government? Because of this mindset.

If I meet a starving man on the street I will help him, If i meet a person in social deres i will give them advice the best I know how. but I will never attempt to push my religion on them and say it can solve their problems.

Its simply a matter of religious structure. This way of thinking is built into Christianity, but that dosnt mean that we non-christians have to like it.
 
Skadi said:
You phrase that very well. But this is where we differ significantly. This concept is what has lead some people today to see devout Christians as self-righteous, arrogant, and bigots. Why do the Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons knock on doors? Why is history full of Christian leaders using missionary work as a pretext to oppress non-christians? Why every day are there politicians trying to legislate Christianity into our government? Because of this mindset.

If I meet a starving man on the street I will help him, If i meet a person in social deres i will give them advice the best I know how. but I will never attempt to push my religion on them and say it can solve their problems.

Its simply a matter of religious structure. This way of thinking is built into Christianity, but that dosnt mean that we non-christians have to like it.
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That awkward moment where the non-Christians are more loving…
 
Contarini said:
Let’s see how you treat people you actually think are evil. Then I’ll be impressed . . . .

Edwin
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One moment thats a bit infuriating…
I try not to classify people as evil because that entails a complete lack of goodness. And no matter what I think of a person, I try my best to respect them as just that A PERSON.
 
Lokadottir said:
One moment thats a bit infuriating…
I try not to classify people as evil because that entails a complete lack of goodness. And no matter what I think of a person, I try my best to respect them as just that A PERSON.
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Agreed. No one is entirely evil. That is an orthodox Christian doctrine, as is the proposition that no one can know another person’s motivations and thus know the extent to which their actions are caused by a malicious will as opposed to ignorance or good-faith error or some kind of mental illness. More precisely, I should have said “people whose actions are evil.”

Rapists, say, or perpetrators of genocide.

Traditional Christians believe certain things, mostly of a sexual nature, to be morally wrong which other people in our society don’t believe are wrong. But that really has nothing at all to do with how loving we are. It’s easy to be “loving” to people whose actions you think are morally unproblematic, and pat your self on the back regarding your moral superiority to those nasty Christians. But that’s not much of a test, is it?

Edwin
 
Lokadottir said:
Actually you did. I accidentally deleted it. You referred to drug carriers being adherents. I’m not saying that the practice falls within Catholicism. I’m merely saying what you have stated are not good grounds to condemn it so rudely. Now there may be other viable reasons. I have not researched the practice extensively. Please don’t damn it soley on its veneration of death , its practitioners, or it “otherness.”
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I did no such thing.

Further, I did not say anything concerning it itself. Stop putting words into my mouth. I simply said that it is condemned and disowned by the Church. This is not my judgement, but the Church’s.
 
Lokadottir said:
Skadi’s post #105
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It seems odd to claim that a failure to offer your religion as a solution to a person’s problems is “loving.” There are two possible reasons for this stance:
  1. You don’t think your religion has an answer to the person’s problems (which has nothing to do with how loving you are) or
  2. You don’t care sufficiently about helping the person (which is obviously less loving).
To be fair, Skadi said “push my religion on him.” To push one’s religion is indeed a very bad idea. But those who do so are not failing in love, but rather in wisdom and understanding. They are acting out of love, but misguided love. They are doing what they genuinely think is best for the person in question.

Perhaps we need to discuss what “love” means. Because we appear to mean very different things by it. I mean by “love” an earnest desire for what is good, and specifically in this context a desire for the good of others.

Edwin

P.S. On further thought, I don’t want to stand by the claim that pushing one’s religion on a person is in no sense a failure of love. You can’t separate one virtue from another. A well-formed and vigorous love will recognize the dignity of the other and thus will not coerce. But flawed though the love may be that leads people to be pushy in proselytism, it is still a form of love. It’s not at all clear to me that following the norms of a pluralistic society by keeping one’s religion up one’s sleeve is more loving than even so misguided a form of love as that shown by most would-be evangelists for Christianity.
 
Lokadottir,

Did you get that pm i sent you? perhaps your inbox is full?

Just clarifying that is all.
 
dshix said:
I did no such thing.

Further, I did not say anything it itself. Stop putting words into my mouth. I simply said that it is condemned and disowned by the Church. This is not my judgement, but the Church’s.
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No you called it “demonic” then you said it had been condemned. You also illustrated all the nasty evil people who follow it. However I apologize if I’m reading in between the lines wrongly.
 
Lokadottir said:
No you called it “demonic” then you said it had been condemned. You also illustrated all the nasty evil people who follow it. However I apologize if I’m reading in between the lines wrongly.
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Generally, it’s not a good idea to read between the lines on a public forum like this where there is no inflection of voice and you do not know the person.

I am puzzled as to why you persist in saying that I said anything about the “nasty evil people” who follow it. I did not do so; search my posts in the thread. Are you talking about someone else?
 
Cider said:
I’m not speaking for the poster, but Jews and a variety of pagans and polytheists agree that YHVH is the tribal God of the Jews. And that Jesus is basically the tribal God of Christians.
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Reigious Jews don’t worship “YHWH” per se–they worship “HaShem” or “The Holy One, Praised Be He” or “The Master of the Universe.” True, all of these are terms for the one who revealed Himself to the ancient Hebrews as “YHWH.” But my point is that no devout Jew (except maybe a very liberal/postmodern one) would say that they simply worship a tribal god. A non-Orthodox Jew, with historical sensibilities, might grant that as originally understood by the Hebrews YHWH was a tribal god.

The belief that “Jesus is the tribal god of the Christians” seems patently irrational to me, if it really implies that there is a divine being called “Jesus” who somehow conned a billion people into believing things about Him that weren’t true. This seems to violate Ockham’s razor at every level, and it is certainly in no sense a “respectful” view.

Edwin
 
dshix said:
Generally, it’s not a good idea to read between the lines on a public forum like this where there is no inflection of voice and you do not know the person.

I am puzzled as to why you persist in saying that I said anything about the “nasty evil people” who follow it. I did not do so; search my posts in the thread. Are you talking about someone else?
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Quite possibly I apologize
 
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