M
maklavan
Guest
- Status
V
Veronica
Guest
Actually, the fast use to be abstaining from all food and drink (with the exception of water) from midnight until reception of the Eucharist. It is a discipline of the church and one that can be changed. (Break + fast = break the fast. First meal of the day).
CrusaderNY:
T
turboEDvo
Guest
jc413:
Fridays during Lent are also no-meat days.
Eamon
M
maryprayforme
Guest
- JMJ +
C
cleofet
Guest
What about the people who just LOVE seafood and fish? I know bunches of people who can’t wait for Fridays just to go out to dinner and get their catfish dinners, or oyster plates or even lobster tails. What sacrifice is it for them to eat what they really want in the first place? I would think some other form of penance would be more to the point. What about volunteering some time at your parish, a retirement home for the elderly, at a soup kitchen. More prayers are always something that works for me as I already volunteer on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays anyway. I haven’t read all of the posts yet but I still am not sure if meatless Fridays are in fact an obligation. :yup:
T
turboEDvo
Guest
Meatless Fridays aren’t an obligation, though you are supposed to make a sacrifice. As was noted in an ealier post, no meat isn’t the only option, it’s just at the top of the list. But, some other sacrifice that is more difficult is appropriate. I find, since most of my friends and all of my family do not abstain from meat on Fridays, that giving up meat on Fridays is tough: no In-N-Out on the way home from school when we get out early, no steak dinner at the steak house we went to on our ski trip. It is actually a challenge for me. Sometimes I need to plan ahead, like the retreat I attended this weekend had nothing but meat sandwiches for the teen leaders’ dinner. My friend and I bought vegetarian stuff beforehand. It wouldn’t be a sacrifice if it weren’t a bit difficult.
Eamon
M
Mom_of_5
Guest
Years ago, if we ate meat on Friday it was a “mortal” sin. Then the rules changed and we could eat meat on Friday except during Lent. I remember my brother-in-law asking the “big question”----What happened to all those souls who went to hell because they ate meat on Friday. Did they get a reprieve?
I have never eaten a lot of meat and prefer fish or seafood, so giving up meat is not punishment. If the church exchanged the meat for icecream, then I would suffer more.
Mom of 5
I have never eaten a lot of meat and prefer fish or seafood, so giving up meat is not punishment. If the church exchanged the meat for icecream, then I would suffer more.
Mom of 5
S
SFAgal03
Guest
I only abstain from meat on Ash Wednesday and the Fridays during Lent.But I may start abstaining more frequently. I am trying many new things to bring myself and God much closer. So far, so good. I’m excited.
T
Tiffse
Guest
Many rituals differ from country to country. We live in the Detroit area where Canada is actually 15 minutes SOUTH of us! Our priest said that eating meat on Fridays (I think even during Lent) in Canada is not a sin. I guess Bishops can differ from country to country on rituals and practices.
If I go to Canada for lunch on Friday, can I eat meat without it being a sin?
J
Joanne_ca
Guest
I don’t now, and I have to remind myself all week, “Don’t eat meat on Friday”. When I was a kid, it was the norm, fish every friday but then came Vatican ll, priests no longer preached it and it just petered out. I’ve recently started attending TLM where they encourage it, as it should be. For me abstaining from meat is a real sacrifice, my meals were always centered around meat, so this is my penance.
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
I do not live alone. As I am trying to get out of debt so I can enter religious life I live with my parents once again.
My parents are non-practicing Catholics.
I eat with my parents as we have always eaten as a family. I eat what is placed before me.
During Lent we will not eat on Fridays, but during the rest of the year it is hit or miss.
My parents are non-practicing Catholics.
I eat with my parents as we have always eaten as a family. I eat what is placed before me.
During Lent we will not eat on Fridays, but during the rest of the year it is hit or miss.
V
Veronica
Guest
There is actually a whole Cuisine of Lenten dishes that have been around for centuries in different parts of the world that pertain to lent. catholicmom.com/lent_recipes.htm even shares some of them. Catholic cookbooks even have chapters dedicated to just this topic. And if you have older relatives from Europe, they have recipes just for meatless, lent meals. It is an interesting topic. Even cookbooks about the Great Depression Cooking are helpful, because many dishes were sparse of meat or used very little. Our family has always celebrated Friday as a meatless day and share our memories of childhood meals that our mothers made. Tomato soup and grilled cheese sandwiches for dinner is probably the most popular.
A
adanneya
Guest
NORMALLY HERE IN NIGERIA,THE CATHOLIC BISHOPS OF NIGERIA RECOMMEND THAT WE THE FAITHFULS SHOULD ABSTAIN FROM MEAT EVERY FRIDAY,THIS IS REENFORCED IN THE CHURCH AND RELIGOUS HOUSES.
PERSONALLY I DON'T EAT MEAT SO IF IT IS ON THE BASES OF PENANCE,I SHOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND THAT I LAY MY HANDS ON OTHER FORMS OFPENANCE.
G
Genesis315
Guest
I think Friday confession is a good idea. I’m luck, my parish has confession everyday after daily Mass (not just Saturday like most places)!
F
Forest-Pine
Guest
My family has been abstaining on Fridays for several months. When we made that decision, it was without the knowledge of the continuation of Friday sacrifices after Vatican II, nor of the request to offer up the suffering for the end of abortion. I wrote an article in favor of this practice, which I will post below. This is not directed at any individual, here or elsewhere. I am not being derogatory to those with a differing opinion. I just offer it here for your reading pleasure. Hopefully it speaks to a heart or two…
-Christina
-Christina
F
Forest-Pine
Guest
To Eat or Not to Eat; Meat Is The Question
Our US Conference of Catholic Bishops has excused us from the specific obligation of abstaining from meat on regular Fridays. However, we are still required to show some sort of sacrifice on each Friday, and they encourage Catholics to abstain as this sacrifice. Many people, myself included for quite some time, argue that it is no big deal to not eat meat in our society. They argue it means much more to give some other sort of sacrifice or charity that is more meaningful and difficult. Is it really sacrificial to someone who loves seafood to have a seafood dinner? No. Or for a near-vegetarian such as myself to have a Boca burger? No. So they would instead have us do some other form of penance, like say the sorrowful mysteries of the rosary or go to Mass or Confession or donate our time to a worthy charity. But I argue that if it is not a sacrifice, why not go ahead and abstain AND do another form of penance? It might not do much for you in a sacrificial way, but it does do quite a lot for the Church as a whole:
A. Even while enjoying your lobster feast, you are reminded of the Passion of our Lord by making a conscious effort to plan and choose a non-meat meal for that day. As Mandi so pointedly stated, “I keep Fridays to ponder the Blood of my sacrificed Lord. Not the blood of a cow!” By making each Friday a non-bloody night, you must remember the Passion every week. You must remind yourself and your family every Friday about the Sacrifice our Lord made for us and contemplate HIS blood. This remembrance would be a good thing and would be directly to the point of why we abstain.
B. By abstaining on regular Fridays, you are standing in solidarity with our Catholic brothers and sisters around the world, showing a unified action, and thus supporting the Church, her mission, and her teachings. It might be “easier” for us here in a richer society (where we can just go out for a seafood buffet instead) to abstain from meat than those who are not as financially blessed. How very un-Christian of us to therefore say since it is easy, we needn’t do it! I find the very opposite to be true: since it is “easy” for us to abstain, we should do that, and more. How would we like it if the rule were the richest needn’t pay any taxes. Since it is easier for them, they are just exempt… I find the typical outrage over celebrities who get off without paying to be indicative that we feel when something is “easier” for a group of people, it is all that much more important that they suffer, to whatever extent possible, with the rest of society, who find it difficult but still find a way to do what is right. In this same regard, I feel it is important to do whatever little thing we can to support our brothers and sisters in Christ in their struggles, to preach the Gospel of the Sacrificed Lamb with our actions and our words, and to remain in unity with the people of faith, in history and modernity.
C. By abstaining, you are forcing schools, restaurants, and other institutions to take note of the power of Catholicism. Have you noticed even Wendy’s has a fish sandwich in Lent? Support that! You would be surprised how many schools don’t even offer a meatless meal on the Fridays in Lent, much less year-round. This show of solidarity has an impact much larger than the Wendy’s menu: it was the Knights of Columbus who pushed through the “One Nation Under God” wording of the pledge through Congress. It is a very small, but united group of atheists who are working so hard to remove it. Catholics united are able to effect social change. We need to show this unity in our everyday lives, not just when something big or important arises. This is the very basis for why so many abstain for the cause of abortion. Social change can be effected through spiritual unity. If we are not united in our thoughts, actions, and prayers, the atheists will be able to effect their own changes for the worse.
Our US Conference of Catholic Bishops has excused us from the specific obligation of abstaining from meat on regular Fridays. However, we are still required to show some sort of sacrifice on each Friday, and they encourage Catholics to abstain as this sacrifice. Many people, myself included for quite some time, argue that it is no big deal to not eat meat in our society. They argue it means much more to give some other sort of sacrifice or charity that is more meaningful and difficult. Is it really sacrificial to someone who loves seafood to have a seafood dinner? No. Or for a near-vegetarian such as myself to have a Boca burger? No. So they would instead have us do some other form of penance, like say the sorrowful mysteries of the rosary or go to Mass or Confession or donate our time to a worthy charity. But I argue that if it is not a sacrifice, why not go ahead and abstain AND do another form of penance? It might not do much for you in a sacrificial way, but it does do quite a lot for the Church as a whole:
A. Even while enjoying your lobster feast, you are reminded of the Passion of our Lord by making a conscious effort to plan and choose a non-meat meal for that day. As Mandi so pointedly stated, “I keep Fridays to ponder the Blood of my sacrificed Lord. Not the blood of a cow!” By making each Friday a non-bloody night, you must remember the Passion every week. You must remind yourself and your family every Friday about the Sacrifice our Lord made for us and contemplate HIS blood. This remembrance would be a good thing and would be directly to the point of why we abstain.
B. By abstaining on regular Fridays, you are standing in solidarity with our Catholic brothers and sisters around the world, showing a unified action, and thus supporting the Church, her mission, and her teachings. It might be “easier” for us here in a richer society (where we can just go out for a seafood buffet instead) to abstain from meat than those who are not as financially blessed. How very un-Christian of us to therefore say since it is easy, we needn’t do it! I find the very opposite to be true: since it is “easy” for us to abstain, we should do that, and more. How would we like it if the rule were the richest needn’t pay any taxes. Since it is easier for them, they are just exempt… I find the typical outrage over celebrities who get off without paying to be indicative that we feel when something is “easier” for a group of people, it is all that much more important that they suffer, to whatever extent possible, with the rest of society, who find it difficult but still find a way to do what is right. In this same regard, I feel it is important to do whatever little thing we can to support our brothers and sisters in Christ in their struggles, to preach the Gospel of the Sacrificed Lamb with our actions and our words, and to remain in unity with the people of faith, in history and modernity.
C. By abstaining, you are forcing schools, restaurants, and other institutions to take note of the power of Catholicism. Have you noticed even Wendy’s has a fish sandwich in Lent? Support that! You would be surprised how many schools don’t even offer a meatless meal on the Fridays in Lent, much less year-round. This show of solidarity has an impact much larger than the Wendy’s menu: it was the Knights of Columbus who pushed through the “One Nation Under God” wording of the pledge through Congress. It is a very small, but united group of atheists who are working so hard to remove it. Catholics united are able to effect social change. We need to show this unity in our everyday lives, not just when something big or important arises. This is the very basis for why so many abstain for the cause of abortion. Social change can be effected through spiritual unity. If we are not united in our thoughts, actions, and prayers, the atheists will be able to effect their own changes for the worse.
F
Forest-Pine
Guest
D. You are providing an example to others. We must remember to be witnesses in our every action. Even if you are right with the Lord by providing an alternative penance, will your actions put others right with the Lord as well? Recall the story of PhilJane: “One day we were traveling & we went into a restaurant in a small town & my husband said to me, “I am having a burger.” I replied, “It is the first Friday in Lent.” …We both ordered fish & chips. After the meal we started talking to the people [beside us] …He told me that I had to go to confession tonight. I asked him how he knew that we were Catholic; he said that when my husband & I walked into the restaurant, the 2-year-old granddaughter pointed to the Benedictine cross that my husband wore around his neck & said “Amen.” My husband was happy that he had not had that burger!”
Even Saint Paul had this VERY same circumstance. He wrote about it in 1 Corinthians 1:8… He says in part:
7b "There are some who have been so used to idolatry up until now that, when they eat meat sacrificed to idols, their conscience, which is weak, is defiled.
8 Now food will not bring us closer to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, nor are we better off if we do.
9 But make sure that this liberty of yours in no way becomes a stumbling block to the weak.
10 If someone sees you, with your knowledge, reclining at table in the temple of an idol, may not his conscience too, weak as it is, be “built up” to eat the meat sacrificed to idols?
11 Thus through your knowledge, the weak person is brought to destruction, the brother for whom Christ died.
12 When you sin in this way against your brothers and wound their consciences, weak as they are, you are sinning against Christ.
13 Therefore, if food causes my brother to sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I may not cause my brother to sin.
It isn’t the meat that is the issue. It is the example we set and the lives we touch that is so important to the Catholic Christian. You can see the whole chapter, and its footnotes, at the USCCB website here: 1 Cor 1:8 The effect it has on us individually is not the greatest concern: the rippled effects it has on a God-less society, to see another supposed “Pagan” among them, or to see an obvious follower of Christ, is much more important than if you “know” that you can eat the meat and be right with God.
Likewise, the touched upon subject of whether to eat meat placed in front of you at a non-believer’s/non-follower’s house is answered in the Bible, as several others have pointed out. In the tradition of oikonomia, both Luke in Luke-Acts and Paul in his letters say the unity and good order (communion) of the believing community is always to be valued over theoretical or legal correctness (to paraphrase Sister Laurel). “Whoever eats, eats for the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while whoever abstains, abstains for the Lord and gives thanks to God.” (Romans 14:6) Paul argues, “Do we not have the right to eat and drink?” He knows that he does have this right along with such other rights as marriage and compensation for his work, but answers his own question:
Even Saint Paul had this VERY same circumstance. He wrote about it in 1 Corinthians 1:8… He says in part:
7b "There are some who have been so used to idolatry up until now that, when they eat meat sacrificed to idols, their conscience, which is weak, is defiled.
8 Now food will not bring us closer to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, nor are we better off if we do.
9 But make sure that this liberty of yours in no way becomes a stumbling block to the weak.
10 If someone sees you, with your knowledge, reclining at table in the temple of an idol, may not his conscience too, weak as it is, be “built up” to eat the meat sacrificed to idols?
11 Thus through your knowledge, the weak person is brought to destruction, the brother for whom Christ died.
12 When you sin in this way against your brothers and wound their consciences, weak as they are, you are sinning against Christ.
13 Therefore, if food causes my brother to sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I may not cause my brother to sin.
It isn’t the meat that is the issue. It is the example we set and the lives we touch that is so important to the Catholic Christian. You can see the whole chapter, and its footnotes, at the USCCB website here: 1 Cor 1:8 The effect it has on us individually is not the greatest concern: the rippled effects it has on a God-less society, to see another supposed “Pagan” among them, or to see an obvious follower of Christ, is much more important than if you “know” that you can eat the meat and be right with God.
Likewise, the touched upon subject of whether to eat meat placed in front of you at a non-believer’s/non-follower’s house is answered in the Bible, as several others have pointed out. In the tradition of oikonomia, both Luke in Luke-Acts and Paul in his letters say the unity and good order (communion) of the believing community is always to be valued over theoretical or legal correctness (to paraphrase Sister Laurel). “Whoever eats, eats for the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while whoever abstains, abstains for the Lord and gives thanks to God.” (Romans 14:6) Paul argues, “Do we not have the right to eat and drink?” He knows that he does have this right along with such other rights as marriage and compensation for his work, but answers his own question:
F
Forest-Pine
Guest
“I have not used any of these rights, however, nor do I write this that it be done so in my case. I would rather die. Certainly no one is going to nullify my boast. If I preach the gospel, this is no reason for me to boast, for an obligation has been imposed on me, and woe to me if I do not preach it! If I do so willingly, I have a recompense, but if unwillingly, then I have been entrusted with a stewardship… Although I am free in regard to all, I have made myself a slave to all so as to win over as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew to win over Jews; to those under the law I became like one under the law–though I myself am not under the law–to win over those under the law. To those outside the law I became like one outside the law–though I am not outside God’s law but within the law of Christ–to win over those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak. I have become all things to all, to save at least some. All this I do for the sake of the gospel, so that I too may have a share in it.” (1 Cor 9)
He did not need to keep kosher, yet in a Jewish house he did. He was raised with the kosher tradition, and many Christians still held to the kosher law in his time. He was greatly condemned by Jewish-Christians (even Peter) when he ate with the Gentiles and did not keep kosher. He is clear in his rebuttal that it is not the food that is the issue: it is the charity to a hostess, the personal sacrifice to be able to shine the light of Christianity to others… it is perfectly acceptable, and even desirable, that he break with his own tradition to be able to “win over the weak.” To apply this to our own situation, he is in favor of eating the meat while witnessing to the Lord with his actions, so that one day he might be able to convert the people he is dining with. (Such as Jamie took the opportunity to do with her Catholic mother-in-law, but wisely refrained from mentioning to her anti-Catholic relatives.) Just as PhilJane was reminded that our every action is being watched, and interpreted as the actions of Christ himself, it is important that we be above reproach not only to the Lord, but to our neighbors as well.
It is clear that there is not a firm “law” that we eat or not eat, or what, or when. Such dietary restrictions were moot with the death of Jesus and the ending of the telos (law). Those who enjoy a big family barbeque meal and instead offer some other form of penance are completely correct in doing so. And those who graciously eat the food their mothers or hostesses give them are also correct. I argue, though, that there are many who are weaker in faith than we are, and that the example we give them must be beyond reproach. For while we know “It is not what enters one’s mouth that defiles that person; but what comes out of the mouth is what defiles one.” (Mt 15:11) there are many others who do not know the Lord and can only see him in our actions. So while exceptions abound, I hold that the average person should offer the sacrifice of abstinence on regular Fridays of the year to the conversion of a great many souls, and if they feel so called, should also offer another form of sacrifice, charity, or penance. The good this creates-through unity with our Catholic brothers and sisters through history and across the world, a strengthening of faith, a remembrance of Jesus’ passion, a witnessing to the world, a strengthening of discipline, and an avoidance of leading others into sin-has a clear tradition in scripture, in history, and in faith. The USCCB, just as Paul, understands that there are times when, in the favor of *oikonomia *(which also has a strong tradition in scripture, history, and faith), a strict adherence to this norm is not in the best interest of the individuals or Christianity. It remains true, then and now, however, that those cases are the exception and not the norm.
He did not need to keep kosher, yet in a Jewish house he did. He was raised with the kosher tradition, and many Christians still held to the kosher law in his time. He was greatly condemned by Jewish-Christians (even Peter) when he ate with the Gentiles and did not keep kosher. He is clear in his rebuttal that it is not the food that is the issue: it is the charity to a hostess, the personal sacrifice to be able to shine the light of Christianity to others… it is perfectly acceptable, and even desirable, that he break with his own tradition to be able to “win over the weak.” To apply this to our own situation, he is in favor of eating the meat while witnessing to the Lord with his actions, so that one day he might be able to convert the people he is dining with. (Such as Jamie took the opportunity to do with her Catholic mother-in-law, but wisely refrained from mentioning to her anti-Catholic relatives.) Just as PhilJane was reminded that our every action is being watched, and interpreted as the actions of Christ himself, it is important that we be above reproach not only to the Lord, but to our neighbors as well.
It is clear that there is not a firm “law” that we eat or not eat, or what, or when. Such dietary restrictions were moot with the death of Jesus and the ending of the telos (law). Those who enjoy a big family barbeque meal and instead offer some other form of penance are completely correct in doing so. And those who graciously eat the food their mothers or hostesses give them are also correct. I argue, though, that there are many who are weaker in faith than we are, and that the example we give them must be beyond reproach. For while we know “It is not what enters one’s mouth that defiles that person; but what comes out of the mouth is what defiles one.” (Mt 15:11) there are many others who do not know the Lord and can only see him in our actions. So while exceptions abound, I hold that the average person should offer the sacrifice of abstinence on regular Fridays of the year to the conversion of a great many souls, and if they feel so called, should also offer another form of sacrifice, charity, or penance. The good this creates-through unity with our Catholic brothers and sisters through history and across the world, a strengthening of faith, a remembrance of Jesus’ passion, a witnessing to the world, a strengthening of discipline, and an avoidance of leading others into sin-has a clear tradition in scripture, in history, and in faith. The USCCB, just as Paul, understands that there are times when, in the favor of *oikonomia *(which also has a strong tradition in scripture, history, and faith), a strict adherence to this norm is not in the best interest of the individuals or Christianity. It remains true, then and now, however, that those cases are the exception and not the norm.
V
Veronica
Guest
(C. By abstaining, you are forcing schools, restaurants, and other institutions to take note of the power of Catholicism. Have you noticed even Wendy’s has a fish sandwich in Lent? Support that! You would be surprised how many schools don’t even offer a meatless meal on the Fridays in Lent, much less year-round. This show of solidarity has an impact much larger than the Wendy’s menu: it was the Knights of Columbus who pushed through the “One Nation Under God” wording of the pledge through Congress. It is a very small, but united group of atheists who are working so hard to remove it. Catholics united are able to effect social change. We need to show this unity in our everyday lives, not just when something big or important arises. This is the very basis for why so many abstain for the cause of abortion. Social change can be effected through spiritual unity. If we are not united in our thoughts, actions, and prayers, the atheists will be able to effect their own changes for the worse.)
I miss the Catholic Culture. We use to be able to go to any restaurant and they would offer clam chowder as the soup of the day on Fridays. Not anymore. Even our local Catholic school’s cafeteria doesn’t offer Friday as an meatless day.
My family has always kept Friday as a meatless day. We try to eat fish. And now diets have shown that eating more fish is healthy too!
I miss the Catholic Culture. We use to be able to go to any restaurant and they would offer clam chowder as the soup of the day on Fridays. Not anymore. Even our local Catholic school’s cafeteria doesn’t offer Friday as an meatless day.
My family has always kept Friday as a meatless day. We try to eat fish. And now diets have shown that eating more fish is healthy too!
Y
yochumjy
Guest
Luckily our cafeteria here at work always has a of clam chowder on Fridays.
In general we give up meat on Lenten Fridays.
John
In general we give up meat on Lenten Fridays.
John
- Status