Do you ever feel sorry for Judas Iscariot?

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William you post in a complete circle…It appears to me you need far more help than any of us can give you

I accidently chopped off 2 words in my posting about the book of Revelation and they are important ones…I was unable to edit so I will repost

Q. If the Book of Revelation is meant to inspire hope, why does it scare people instead?
A. Many people’s understanding of Revelation is dictated by the media and popular culture which emphasize the book’s supposed doomsday scenarios. All you have to do is look at a newspaper rack to find stories linking the Book of Revelation to the end of the world. Disaster movies like Armageddon, which draws its title from the Book of Revelation, also encourage incorrect associations. Finally, many people who read the Bible are unfamiliar with the book’s literary style and distort its meaning by taking it literally. That’s how a book about Jesus Christ and hope is twisted into a book about fear and death
 
It shows to me that you don’t undertand scripture…The New testament was foretold in the old. by the writings of the prophets…The New Tesment reveals how Christ was the end result of all of the things that were fotetold in the old

Siant Augustine, perhaps the finest mind in the church said this

gloria.tv/?video=d0cibopbzo0noooszp2l
Hi,

I was reading over reading your post again …

Don’t you think that it was just a tad “judgemental” in its reference to my knowledge of Scripture?

Just to let you know … I have studied the Scriptures, psychologies, philosophies, of many religions and sects, and, although I would, by no means, refer to myself as “an expert”, nor would I say that I “do not understand” (although my understanding is admittedly “imperfect”, hence my questioning).

Perhaps it would have been fairer and moree charitable of you to have said :

“It shows to me that you don’t have the same understanding of Scripture that I have” …

and this makes my point that changing one or two words can entirely change the meaning of a sentence (which, of course, I believe to have potentially very serious implications for “elsewhere”…).

Once again, with best wishes

God Bless

William
 
William you post in a complete circle…It appears to me you need far more help than any of us can give you

Q
Hi,

please be assured that you do indeed “give me help” by taking the time to reply to my postings, and also that I appreciate the fact that you have taken the time and the effort.

Also be assured that you have given me much to think of, and, from that “much to think of” I hope to learn much.

To let you understand, I have a deep concern for the times we are living in, when I see what seems to be everything decent in the world being dismantled before my eyes, and I am trying to understand how my perspective fits in with the scheme of things.

YOur responses are most welcome and most appreciated.

Thank you

God Bless

William
 
You seem to want a Catholic opinion and when you get one you say its wrong…You can’t ask for opinion and then say you are being uncharitible…I am telling you what my understanding about what you post is
. I have never said a word about your character
 
You seem to want a Catholic opinion and when you get one you say its wrong…You can’t ask for opinion and then say you are being uncharitible…I am telling you what my understanding about what you post is
. I have never said a word about your character
Hi

please accept that my motives are entirely genuine …

But you say that I say that I have said that Catholic opinion is “wrong”, but I have stated (sometimes, I fear, to the point of being boring) that I do not see myself as in a position to say that anybody’s opinion is “wrong”.

I merely, in the spirit of brotherly friendship, ask for the opinions of others, and, when they do not coincide with mine, I endeavour examine them in more detail, to better understand not only these “other” opinions, but also my own).

There is no animosity in anything that I say whatsoever, nor ever will there be … I am only grateful for the opinions expressed, and, even when putting a contrary opinion or a question, treat the other opinion with respect.

Again, assuring you of my thanks and best wishes

God Bless

William
 
I would recommend that you go to Scott Hahn’s website and take his course on line…he is a convert to Catholicism and a scripture scholar…You need to start from scratch if you want to get Catholic teachings about Scripture and the mass…He is one of the best in his field

He has written a few books that might be of use to you…One is Rome Sweet Home…it deals with his conversion…he was a protestant pastor…another is The Lambs Supper…also if you get EWTN on your TV watch Marcus Grodi an other ex Protestant pastor that is a Catholic convert

You need to get a big picture of things, not just a glimpse of a few verses of scripture to understand what we believe and why we do, and where it says that is the Bible…its all in there…but it is a bigger job than anyone here can supply you with…Another option for you is to take a RCIA course at a Catholic church…you are not required to convert to take it
 
I would recommend that you go to Scott Hahn’s website and take his course on line…he is a convert to Catholicism and a scripture scholar…You need to start from scratch if you want to get Catholic teachings about Scripture and the mass…He is one of the best in his field

He has written a few books that might be of use to you…One is Rome Sweet Home…it deals with his conversion…he was a protestant pastor…another is The Lambs Supper…also if you get EWTN on your TV watch Marcus Grodi an other ex Protestant pastor that is a Catholic convert

You need to get a big picture of things, not just a glimpse of a few verses of scripture to understand what we believe and why we do, and where it says that is the Bible…its all in there…but it is a bigger job than anyone here can supply you with…Another option for you is to take a RCIA course at a Catholic church…you are not required to convert to take it/QUOTE

I thank you most kindly for your advice, I will look into it.

One thing puzzles me, however (and this question is not in the least confrontational, but of genuine curiosity …): what makes you think that I might need to “convert”? Or am I misreading your posting(if so, forgive me)?

“For the record”, however (and, because I do not have any reason for keeping it a secret), when I was asked to provide a profile when I signed up, I put “Lapsed Catholic, considering …”.

(and, again, I would emphasize that my question bears no animosity or indignation whatsoever, and is motivated only by curiosity…)

God Bless you

William
(Your friend, I hope, even if “in print”)
 
redrosetea;4308572:
I would recommend that you go to Scott Hahn’s website and take his course on line…he is a convert to Catholicism and a scripture scholar…You need to start from scratch if you want to get Catholic teachings about Scripture and the mass…He is one of the best in his field

He has written a few books that might be of use to you…One is Rome Sweet Home…it deals with his conversion…he was a protestant pastor…another is The Lambs Supper…also if you get EWTN on your TV watch Marcus Grodi an other ex Protestant pastor that is a Catholic convert

You need to get a big picture of things, not just a glimpse of a few verses of scripture to understand what we believe and why we do, and where it says that is the Bible…its all in there…but it is a bigger job than anyone here can supply you with…Another option for you is to take a RCIA course at a Catholic church…you are not required to convert to take it
I just assumed because you seemed so unclear about Catholic positions that you were not one…I never pay any attention to people profiles, or even bother to look…This is the net and people can post they are anything they wish, it doesn’t mean they are ,or they arent ,what they say. It is really of no interest to me to check out people’s profiles
 
Hi again,

And, now, to make the point as I understand it …

Psalms 41:9 Even my bosom friend in whom I trusted, who ate of my bread, has lifted his heel against me.

[Some versions of this prophecy translate it to say: “has lifted his heel to betray me”, but I am conscious that the argument might come back that not all translations of the Bible are “acceptable”.]

I then look to the meaning behind the words “lifted his heel”… and, in the Polyglot Bible (which attempts to give the meanings of the original words), I see …

H6119
עקּבה עקב
עָקֵב עִקְּבָה ‎ ‛âqêb ‛iqqebâh
aw-kabe‘, ik-keb-aw‘
From 6117 a heel (as protuberant); hence a track; figuratively the rear (of an army). (lier in wait is by mistake for 6120 ): - heel, [horse-] hoof, last, lier in wait by mistake for 6120 , (foot-) step.

Then, I ask myself, what does it mean if we accept the allusion as being to the “rear of an army”?

If the rear of an army rises up against its own leader, is this not the lowest of betrayals?

Or, do we take it that Judas was being alluded to as a “lier in wait” … a lier in wait to"betray"?

I don’t know … these questions just present themselves to me …

Then I think of:

John 13:16 Truly, truly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him.
John 13:17 If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them.
John 13:18 I am not speaking of you all; I know whom I have chosen; it is that the scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me.’

and I am led to the conclusion that Judas had to do what he did to fulfill the prophecy of Psalms (and I am not sure whether, in 13:17, Jesus might not even be “commiserating” with Judas, as it is shortly afer this that he hands the bread to Judas as the one who would “betray” him, and thence, “seals the part”, it might be argued, that Judas is to play…

too many questions, without answers … why muse upon them when God has not considered it appropriate, or important enough, or whatever (and for whatever His reasons may have been: it is not mine, I believe, to question God’s reasons) to inform me?

Again, I do not see it as mine to “judge” Judas for what he did, and, so, therefore, neither do I “feel sorry for Judas” nor not “feel sorry for Judas”.

God, I believe, “worked” through Judas, and I cannot see how I can accept it as within me to imply anything other than that a Divine Plan was being carried out (and the conjectures, then, that, “if it was not Judas, it would have been somebody else”, and “Judas chose to do what he did” become redundant).

In the end, I cannot see it for me to “feel sorry” for Judas … I was not party to God’s plan for him … and God chooses not to reveal that plan in His Word -the Bible- … so who am I to “better guess”?

I see it, rather, as mine to “accept” that it happened as told, and to be satisfied with the extent to which I am told by God.

I believe the whole Catholic way of life necessary for salvation is contained in the Bible … and that that “way of life necessary for salvation” is as relevant, in its entirity, to this so-called “modern world” as it ever has been in the past.

I fully acknowledge that there will be others who will disagree with my evaluation of things, but they are my evaluation of things, and, for my evaluation of things, I believe I shall be judged on the Last Day…, and, for that reason, and not for mischief, impertinence, or hard-headedness, I hold fast to what I see as “my God given ability to reason and question”, the better to understand … the better to give (as John Milton said in “On His Blindness”: “… my true account, lest He, returning, chide …”

Again, only with best wishes, and

God Bless

William
 
Somethings you all may wish to ponder:

1.) It was necessary for Jesus to be put to death at Passover. This was because he was to bring about the New Covenant, for him to be the True Lamb of God. That symbolism doesn’t work if Jesus was put to death the week after Passover. There was no guarantee that Caiphus would have found Jesus at that critical time had Judas not handed Jesus over. Although it’s true that Jesus drew crowds, he and the Disciples were pretty elusive about their celebration of the Passover meal. Likely that they could have hidden through Passover. Thusly, Judas’s actions were absolutely necessary for Jesus to bring about the New Covenant.

2.) God sent his own Son into the world so that He would die so that we could live. Why is it so farfetched for anyone to believe that Judas was a key part of that plan and has received his reward in heaven?

3.) Thusly, couldn’t “better he was not born,” refer to the emotional and Earthly sufferring that Judas would endure for his actions?
 
Somethings you all may wish to ponder:

1.) It was necessary for Jesus to be put to death at Passover. This was because he was to bring about the New Covenant, for him to be the True Lamb of God. That symbolism doesn’t work if Jesus was put to death the week after Passover. There was no guarantee that Caiphus would have found Jesus at that critical time had Judas not handed Jesus over. Although it’s true that Jesus drew crowds, he and the Disciples were pretty elusive about their celebration of the Passover meal. Likely that they could have hidden through Passover. Thusly, Judas’s actions were absolutely necessary for Jesus to bring about the New Covenant.

2.) God sent his own Son into the world so that He would die so that we could live. Why is it so farfetched for anyone to believe that Judas was a key part of that plan and has received his reward in heaven?

3.) Thusly, couldn’t “better he was not born,” refer to the emotional and Earthly sufferring that Judas would endure for his actions?
Hi,

I would broadly agree with you … in fact, I believe I made very similar points some posts ago …

God Bless

William
 
Could Judas have been a co conspirator with Jesus in the action that would set his Passion in motion? I am sure many of you have heard this. What do you think?
 
You must understand God is outside of time as we know it…He knows everything about everyone, all the choices they are going to make before they even make them

Think of a script written and every actor has a part to play,they are cast in their roles…God used the peoples choices to work out salvation…He didn’t make the choices for the people, He used the free choices they made

We have free will ,God does not force us to choose as we do…When Scripture was written to God it had already all had taken place…We have to wait to see things revealed…God knows everything, this includes the outcome of things before they happen

He knew Judas would betray Christ and when it would happen…You must remember all scripture is inspired by God, so when it was written God was slowly revealing his plan for salvation to mankind…We are given free will…God doesn’t make any of us bad to fulfill some evil plot…We chart our own course and God merely uses what we freely chose for ourselves, for His works to be made known to man

Mary could have said no, God knew she wouldn’t before she answered ,because she was pure…He knew that she would be the Mother of Christ that is why she was created sinless…

Remember God called us by name before we were born,as far as Saul being given a second chance…Judas saw Christ , the Son of God daily ,saw the miracles he performed…Judas knew Christ was the Messiah, but he didn’t want to protect Him…he wanted to use what power he had, to gain for himself…Saul repented as soon as he knew he was wrong…Judas knew he was wrong right from the beginning, but chose his path anyway

God knows all of this will happen before it does because past, present, and future all all one with Him
 
Could Judas have been a co conspirator with Jesus in the action that would set his Passion in motion? I am sure many of you have heard this. What do you think?
Hi,

I would pose a question in response to your question: How could God ever be seen as a “conspirator” (whether we take the word etymologically literally, or with its modern “connotations”)?

God Bless

William
 
You must understand God is outside of time as we know it…He knows everything about everyone, all the choices they are going to make before they even make them

Think of a script written and every actor has a part to play,they are cast in their roles…God used the peoples choices to work out salvation…He didn’t make the choices for the people, He used the free choices they made

We have free will ,God does not force us to choose as we do…When Scripture was written to God it had already all had taken place…We have to wait to see things revealed…God knows everything, this includes the outcome of things before they happen

He knew Judas would betray Christ and when it would happen…You must remember all scripture is inspired by God, so when it was written God was slowly revealing his plan for salvation to mankind…We are given free will…God doesn’t make any of us bad to fulfill some evil plot…We chart our own course and God merely uses what we freely chose for ourselves, for His works to be made known to man

Mary could have said no, God knew she wouldn’t before she answered ,because she was pure…He knew that she would be the Mother of Christ that is why she was created sinless…

Remember God called us by name before we were born,as far as Saul being given a second chance…Judas saw Christ , the Son of God daily ,saw the miracles he performed…Judas knew Christ was the Messiah, but he didn’t want to protect Him…he wanted to use what power he had, to gain for himself…Saul repented as soon as he knew he was wrong…Judas knew he was wrong right from the beginning, but chose his path anyway

God knows all of this will happen before it does because past, present, and future all all one with Him
Hi again,

I think I agree with almost all -if not, indeed, all …- of your posting, and would, then, ask: “Should we feel sorry for Judas?”

Best regard as always, and

God Bless

William
 
I feel sorry for Judas because I know I am a sinner unworthy of salvation ,and because I am glad I was not created to be Judas, but to be myself, as sinful as I am

I guess it doesn’t make much sense… I feel relief because what Judas did, is one sin I won’t have to answer for, and I am relieved

I would have hated to be him
 
Hi,

I would pose a question in response to your question: How could God ever be seen as a “conspirator” (whether we take the word etymologically literally, or with its modern “connotations”)?
I used the word conspiracy because only the two of them knew.

I will tell you a story. One winter a group of people were hunting deer near my house. During a drive in the woods, everyone heard two shots a few minutes apart. They found a father and his son lying dead on top of each other. The authorities determined that the father accidentally shot his son. When the father realized what he had done and killed himself in a fit of sorrow. He could not live one more second.

When I heard the story I thought of Judas. He could not live one more second. Insane with grief.

Its a feeling I have. ( I read Kazintzakas )
 
I used the word conspiracy because only the two of them knew.

I will tell you a story. One winter a group of people were hunting deer near my house. During a drive in the woods, everyone heard two shots a few minutes apart. They found a father and his son lying dead on top of each other. The authorities determined that the father accidentally shot his son. When the father realized what he had done and killed himself in a fit of sorrow. He could not live one more second.

When I heard the story I thought of Judas. He could not live one more second. Insane with grief.

Its a feeling I have. ( I read Kazintzakas )
Hi,

I agree that your “story” is a sad one …

However, in regard to “sonspirators”, I looked at the word as being an implication that the incident of the betrayal had been conspired in between Judas and God, and I feel that God is never a “co-inspirer” but always “The Inspirer”.

Further, if you check out my posting above, the Gospel of John has Jesus saying: [John 13:17] “If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them”.

And the very “if” from the mouth of Jesus Christ tends to make me lean towards the discoiunting of the “conspiracy theory”.

But, I hasten to add, this is only my opinion, and I fully acknowledge that I might be wrong …

Again, best wishes, and

God Bless

William
 
I feel sorry for Judas because I know I am a sinner unworthy of salvation ,and because I am glad I was not created to be Judas, but to be myself, as sinful as I am

I guess it doesn’t make much sense… I feel relief because what Judas did, is one sin I won’t have to answer for, and I am relieved

I would have hated to be him
HI, again,

and I assure you that I respect your right so to believe (not that I suggest that you neen my acceptance).

Might I say, on a personal note that, although my “experience” of you is very limited, I somehow am impressed and touched by what perceive as the “depth of your Faith”.

Best wishes, and

God Bless

William
 
HI, again,

and I assure you that I respect your right so to believe (not that I suggest that you neen my acceptance).

Might I say, on a personal note that, although my “experience” of you is very limited, I somehow am impressed and touched by what perceive as the “depth of your Faith”.

Best wishes, and

God Bless

William
This, I have just noticed, contains an error …

the sentence should have read:- "…impressed and touched by what I perceive as the “depth of your faith”.

Best wishes

William
 
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