Do you fear that you may go to Hell?

[Hatikvah]

I’m interested in opinions from all Religions.

Do you ever think that you may not make it to Heaven based on the tenants of your Religion, or are you sure that you will go to Heaven?

I cannot be too precise: do I understand eternal matters entirely? No, I do not, and neither does anyone else. I fear the possibility of Hell (as in my placement there, not in that I’m doubting Hell or treating it as a theory), as many sane people do.

What I do know is that God’s retribution is in the favor of those who choose Him (Isaiah 35:4). I have faith (defined as a specific confidence in Hebrews 11:1) in Jesus Christ. Confessing my sins before Him (1 John 1:9) and repenting, I can be forgiven. The only sin that cannot be forgiven is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, rejecting God’s forgiveness (Matthew 12:31).

 

[ajcstr]

OK, so it sounds to me like you are of the Calvinist tradition?

How would you answer my questions in post 222 ?

I’ll give your questions a shot but I have to know what tradition you are coming from. Please Catholics, correct me if I am off on anything.

can those who have NOT received the gift of faith from God go through the narrow gate?
can those who have received the gift of faith from God NOT go through the narrow gate?

God’s grace is offered to everyone, those who have rejected this grace have chosen the path that leads to destruction.

Those who have received the gift of faith can fall also

Romans 8:29-30
For those whom He foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified.​

note: who is dong the action in the above verses…

Was every person whom God will glorify also justified by God?
Was every person whom God will justify also called by God?
Was every person whom God will call also predestined by God?

Here is the big question:
Is their anyone who was predestined to glory** by God** that God will not glorify?

So obviously if you lean calvanist, we will differ in what we mean by predestination. Yes we have free will but yes we are predestined by God but only in the sense he knows our response before we give it. Predestination is not a strong area for me but please answer my question and also, if you are a Calvanist are you a TULIP ?

To your big question, my answer is no but for a totally different reason than you would answer no. In my faith, I have no assurance of salvation.

Look, I am happy to answer any questions but not looking for a full debate here. These differences have existed for 500 years and I would guess nothing I say is going to sway you and vice versa.

 

[ajcstr]

I cannot be too precise: do I understand eternal matters entirely? No, I do not, and neither does anyone else. I fear the possibility of Hell (as in my placement there, not in that I’m doubting Hell or treating it as a theory), as many sane people do.

What I do know is that God’s retribution is in the favor of those who choose Him (Isaiah 35:4). I have faith (defined as a specific confidence in Hebrews 11:1) in Jesus Christ. Confessing my sins before Him (1 John 1:9) and repenting, I can be forgiven. The only sin that cannot be forgiven is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, rejecting God’s forgiveness (Matthew 12:31).

And herein is another Catholic-Protestant difference IMO

Protestant theology views all as sinners (is depraved the right word?) that have no way to rectify their condition. The blood of Christ provides an imputed righteousness.

Catholic theology views all as sinners but views us as essentially good but fallen. Concupiscence (the inclination to sin) is present but God’s grace helps us to grow in holiness and resist this appetite for sin. Gods grace is healing and actually infuses us with righteousness. The implication here is that we can still stray and we strive to as you do to repent.

My biggest personal issue is that Jesus tells us to repent and sin no more yet as we would all agree it is impossible for anyone to sin no more so have I ever really repented?

 

[LatinRight]

**Please Catholics, correct me if I am off on anything.

In my faith, I have no assurance of salvation**.

Blessings Ajcstr

**The Catholic Church affirms predestination as a *DE FIDE

Dogma (the highest level of binding theological certainty).*

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA

THE CATHOLIC DOGMA. – The predestination of the elect

**Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, has

been IRREVOCABLY FIXED FROM ALL ETERNITY. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it

were possible that a predestined individual should after all be CAST INTO HELL or that

one not predestined should in the end REACH HEAVEN, then God would have been

MISTAKEN in his foreknowledge of future events; He would NO LONGER be omniscient.

God’s unerring foreknowledge and foreordaining is designated in the Bible by the beautiful

figure of the “Book of Life” (liber vitæ, to biblion tes zoes). This book of life is a list which

contains the names of ALL THE ELECT and admits NEITHER ADDITIONS NO ERASURES.

(2) The second quality of predestination, the DEFINITENESS of the number of the elect,

follows NATURALLY from the first. For if the eternal counsel of God regarding the

predestined is UNCHANGEABLE, then the number of the predestined must likewise be

UNCHANGEABLE and DEFINITE, subject NEITHER to ADDITIONS nor to

CANCELLATIONS. Anything indefinite in the number would eo ipso imply a lack of

certitude in God’s knowledge and would DESTROY His omniscience.**
End quote Emphasize added.

**CCC 1994 “… It is the opinion of St. Augustine that "the justification of the wicked is a

greater work than the creation of heaven and earth," because "heaven and earth will pass

away but the salvation and justification of the elect … will not pass away. …”**

**Quote: St. Thomas Aquinas, In his Summa Theologiae he wrote:

[P]erseverance is called he abiding in good TO the end of life.

And in order to have this perseverance man . . . needs the divine assistance guiding him

and guarding him against the attacks of the passions . . . that he may be kept from evil

TILL the end of his life (ST IIa:109:10)

This same teaching was infallibly taught by the Council of Trent after the Protestant Reformation.

A Tiptoe Through TULIP by James Akin

Quote: Trent’s Decree of Justification, canon 16, speaks of "That Great and Special Gift of

Final Perseverance," and chapter 13 of the decree speaks of "the gift of perseverance of

which it is written:

‘He who perseveres to the end shall be saved [Matt. 10:22, 24:13],’

Which cannot be obtained from anyone except from Him who is able to make him who

stands to stand [Rom. 14:4]."

Aquinas said it always saves a person because of the kind of grace it is; The gift of final

perseverance always works.

Catholics even have a special name for the GRACE God gives these people: “the gift of final perseverance.”

The Church formally teaches that there is a gift of final perseverance. [43] Aquinas (and

even Molina) said this grace always ensures that a person will persevere. [44] Aquinas

said, “Predestination [to final salvation] most certainly and infallibly takes effect.”

Aquinas said the gift of final perseverance is “the abiding in good to the end of life.

In order to have this perseverance man…needs the divine assistance guiding and

guarding him against the attacks of the passions…” **End quote

Continue

 

[LatinRight]

**Ajcstr, I have explained it to you, a genuine Christian predestined to heaven cannot lose his or her salvation.

Than what about (“Rom.11:22 … otherwise you too will be cut off.”) to whom Rom.11:22 addressed to?

1 John 2:19 explains it:

1 John 2:19 (IGNATIUS CATHOLIC STUDY BIBLE)

“They went out from us; but they WERE NOT of us; for if they HAD

BEEN of us, they would CONTINUED with us; …”

We can be sure some of the reprobates whose names taken out from the

Book of Life still among us in the Christian groups but they WERE not of

us and they ARE NOT of us.

God wants to save everyone, God gives enough grace everyone includes

the reprobates to freely choose between life or death.

The reprobates for their vehement rejection of God and his grace all end up in hell.

But as 1 John 2:19 explains: Some reprobates come into the Christian groups.

God has given them enough grace to believe the Gospel, to freely make the decision between heaven and hell.

Some of them for a limited time believe the gospel (they have sufficient

grace to believe) meaning they have even a kind of faith to believe,

but God also see, they will vehemently reject him and his grace.

As the results: Their name was CUT OF from the Book of Life from all

eternity, God didn’t call them into his service, didn’t give them his gift of

formed faith, didn’t predestined them to heaven, didn’t give them his

special grace ‘the gift of final perseverance.” – This special grace would

assured their final perseverance. Of course with their co-operation with this special grace.

“For the gifts and the calling of God are IRREVOCABLE.” – Rom.11:29.

RESULTS OF THER REJECTION: 1 John 2:19 (IGNATIUS CATHOLIC STUDY BIBLE)

“They went out from us; but they WERE NOT of us; for if they HAD

BEEN of us, they would CONTINUED with us; …”

It is theological fact:

Any warnings which includes cut off (cut of from the Book of Life)

addressed to the reprobates who are among us but they are not part of us.**

**We can be positive: If we are genuine Christians/predestined to heaven,

we always will be genuine Christians, this is a* DE FIDE *Catholic

Dogma, (the highest level of binding theological certainty).**

Blessings

LatinRight

 

[ajcstr]

**Ajcstr, I have explained it to you, a genuine Christian predestined to heaven cannot lose his or her salvation.

**

Agreed, but while God has the foreknowledge I don’t so I personally can’t have this absolute assurance.

Council of Trent - Justification chapter 12

That a rash presumptuousness in the matter of Predestination is to be avoided.

No one, moreover, so long as he is in this mortal life, ought so far to presume as regards the secret mystery of divine predestination, as to determine for certain that he is assuredly in the number of the predestinate; as if it were true, that he that is justified, either cannot sin any more, or, if he do sin, that he ought to promise himself an assured repentance; for except by special revelation, it cannot be known whom God hath chosen unto Himself.

 

[Hatikvah]

My biggest personal issue is that Jesus tells us to repent and sin no more yet as we would all agree it is impossible for anyone to sin no more so have I ever really repented?

Not a “big” difference. I’ve noticed that Protestants often say they agree with Catholics on most things, but many (not all) Catholics try to distance themselves from Protestants. Luther’s “totally depraved” is not as extreme as Calvin’s. Yes, we have free will (some Calvinists do not say so), and we can decide, but it is hard and we will often need God to get us through.

Repentance is simply “the activity of reviewing one’s actions and feeling contrition or regret for past wrongs.” Have you felt contrition for your sins? If you could go back, would you make a better choice?

This is also reflected in the fact that the Church teaches that mortal sin can be forgiven when one has perfect contrition without confession (they only need imperfect contrition with confession). Again, I think the views are not all that different and semantics comes into play, but “oh, no, the big bad Protestants are at it again!” (just kidding)

 

[Hatikvah]

Protestant theology views all as sinners (is depraved the right word?) that have no way to rectify their condition. The blood of Christ provides an imputed righteousness.

Most of the Reformers’ views fall under total depravity. Calvin’s ideas were more “extreme” (especially with predestination and election added), but Luther put an emphasis on free will (and a view on predestination kind of like Molinism; God knows who will be saved, but He does not say “I choose you” flat-out). As I have read, the totally depraved theology Reformers accepted that humans have a tainted nature as Catholics do (the “essentially good” part can be described as coming from the conscience as St. Paul says). Luther also teaches that God’s grace can be resisted, though, and we have free will in our actions (whereas Calvin is more complex).

My biggest personal issue is that Jesus tells us to repent and sin no more yet as we would all agree it is impossible for anyone to sin no more so have I ever really repented?

Repentance is simply “the activity of reviewing one’s actions and feeling contrition or regret for past wrongs.” Have you felt contrition for your sins? If you could go back, would you make a better choice? Those are good questions to ask.

This is also reflected in the fact that the Church teaches that mortal sin can be forgiven when one has perfect contrition without confession (they only need imperfect contrition with confession). Again, I think the views are not all that different and semantics comes into play, but some Catholics just will not let go.

 

[Little_Sheep]

I have never had this fear, and the longer I journey with God, the more strongly I fell I will never have this fear.

Of course, I have never been taught or believed in a God who would send any of His children to Hell for eternity. I don’t know that I ever could believe in such a God.

 

[Jeanne_S]

I have never had this fear, and the longer I journey with God, the more strongly I fell I will never have this fear.

Of course, I have never been taught or believed in a God who would send any of His children to Hell for eternity. I don’t know that I ever could believe in such a God.

God doesn’t send any of his children to Hell.Those that are end up there, do so of their own free will.

 

[rcwitness]

God doesn’t send any of his children to Hell.Those that are end up there, do so of their own free will.

And they are not the Children of God, but the children of the prince of this world. I pray that I do the will of the Heavenly father. Who’s will we accomplish will be our father.

 

[Hatikvah]

God doesn’t send any of his children to Hell.Those that are end up there, do so of their own free will.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Classic thread here.

As a fundamentalist we referred to all Christianity as the Church triumphant. Of course the Catholic church says tap the brakes on all that and pop champaign once you finish the race, not prior.

Personally i don’t fear hell because I’ve walked with the Lord for quite sometime now and can’t see myself turning my back on him. Then again, if i were on my death bed I’m thinking some inevitable fear would set in. After all, none of us have died yet so we have no real idea how the judgement takes place. I’ve heard someone speculate that it’s 7 years in purgatory for each repented mortal sin lol. My gosh i hope that’s not true cause id be in purgatory for a billion years.

 

[spedteacherita]

Right now? Have you got insurance?

Our insurance is the atonement of our sins from Christ when he defeated Death on the cross. I don’t fear that I may go to hell. I’m not perfect - I will never be perfect - but I look to the Cross for the redemption that was promised to us from way back in Genesis 3:15. I pray that God will help me when I do stray and I am in constant renewal when I confess and pray God’s guidance and forgiveness.

I cannot base my salvation on my actions because they are all coming from my sinful nature - I have to depend on Christ to be my advocate to the Father.

I love the part in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the tree, they understood they had done wrong and hid themselves from God. They had consequences for their disobedience but God did not turn away from them but He went to look for them. He also cared for them when the first deaths, the animals, were killed by God to clothe them.

Sorry if I rambled. LOL My brain gives me a bit of trouble anymore.

Also, I did not read thru the 249 posts, so if this has already been discussed just carry on.

God bless, all!

Rita

 

[ajcstr]

Those that are end up there, do so of their own free will.

And there is the rub

I sometimes think Romans 7 15-21 was written just for me.

 

[Jeanne_S]

And there is the rub

I sometimes think Romans 7 15-21 was written just for me.

It was written for all of us.Which is probably why Christ blessed us with the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

 

[Lou2U]

This will make me sound awful, or very much like a heathen, but I have to say no.

Lou

 

[ffg]

Yikes, posts 242 and 243 are in the least very confusing.

Does God know all? Certainly.

Are His children (humans) free to accept or reject Him and His love? Yup

If Jesus is God, His teachings are important, and He requested His teachings to be taught far and wide.

Giving the Apostles the tools to teach folks where there was a language divide, shows a desire to spread information.

Be careful not to shut that door when explaining predestination.

God might know each person’s end, but that just comes with the territory of being ‘God’. It’s impossible for God to not know everything.

It does not mean - there is no freedom for creation.

 

[LatinRight]

Agreed, but while God has the foreknowledge I don’t so I personally can’t have this absolute assurance.

Council of Trent - Justification chapter 12

That a rash presumptuousness in the matter of Predestination is to be avoided.

No one, moreover, so long as he is in this mortal life, ought so far to presume as regards the secret mystery of divine predestination, as to determine for certain that he is assuredly in the number of the predestinate; as if it were true, that he that is justified, either cannot sin any more, or, if he do sin, that he ought to promise himself an assured repentance; for except by special revelation, it cannot be known whom God hath chosen unto Himself.

**Blessings Ajcstr,

A crucial question is: Can we know with absolute certainty/most assuredly that we are God’s children?

Canon from the Sixth Session of the Council of Trent:

CANON XVI.-“If any one saith, that he will for certain, of an absolute and infallible

certainty, have that great gift of perseverance unto the end,-unless he HAVE LEARNED

THIS BY SPECIAL REVELATION; let him be anathema.” Emphasize mine.

According to the Trent:

If we have learned it by from GOD’S SPECIAL REVELATION we can know it with

absolute certainty THAT WE HAVE God’s great gift of perseverance unto the end, this

means we have everlasting life right now.

So, we have a GREEN LIGHT to believe right now from God’s special revelation WITH

ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that we are among God’s elect.

How can we have God’s special revelation?

If we are God’s children via our spirits we have a permanent open line communication

with God. – We permanently receive God’s leading instructions and his different special revelations.

Rom.8:14-16;
For as MANY AS are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

For you did NOT receive the spirit of bondage again to FEAR, but you received the

SPIRIT OF ADOPTION by whom we cry out “ABBA, FATHER.”

The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.” End quote.

God puts his instructions and special revelations into OUR SPIRITS, via our spirits God’s

leading instructions and different special revelations goes into our hearts and to our brains.

Continues**

 

[LatinRight]

**We can receive God’s instructions and special revelations whichever way God wants to give them to us.

FOR EXAMPLE:

We feel God’s gift of faith, special revelations, love, in our hearts and our spirits.

We have “Unconditional BELIEF in what God says.”

We have “Unconditional TRUST in God.”

We have “Unconditional LOVE for God and for others,” we have incredible power to

proclaim the Gospel to everyone.

The Holy Spirit is burning in our hearts, we have incredible joy, we know we are God’s children.

We have a thanks-full heart for God for our salvation and we have faith to believe it.-

Without faith it is impossible to please God.

The Gospel which was dry before comes alive and lives in our hearts.

We start to pry in the spirit, in a new tongues. – It is a spiritual gift, not a condition to have salvation.

Then we can be sure we have God’s special revelation because this is one of God’s

special revelation and we can be certain of an absolute that we are God’s children.

The charismatic Catholics call this gift of God “Baptism of the Holy Spirit.” – Most of the

charismatic Catholic is recipient of this gift.

When I received this gift, two weeks I cried from joy. – Not all the time.

Of course we can have God’s special revelation that we are God’s children many other

different ways as well.

AN IMPORTANT WARNING FOR ALL OF US! – 1 Cor.11:27;

God doesn’t want that the reprobates who are among us (1 John 2:19) to participate in the Eucharist.

We all should know our standing before we partake in the Eucharist! – There are two

possibilities: We are God’s children or we are reprobates among God’s children.

So, in 2 Cor.13:5-6 God has given us a COMMAND: 2 Cor.13:5-6; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)

“Examine yourselves, to see whether you are holding to your faith. TEST YOURSELVES.

Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you? – unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

I hope YOU WILL FIND OUT that we have not failed. End quote.

When God has given the command to his children to do the test, God has also given his children the ability to do the test.

For example of a test: – Test can be done many different ways.

TEST AS FOLLOWS

John 5:24; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, HAS

EVERLASTING LIFE; he does NOT come into judgment, but has passed FROM DEATH to LIFE.”

1 John 5:13; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)

“I write this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW that

you have eternal life.”

Without being God’s children we could not believe the above word of God.

If we believe the above word of God we are God’s children/his elect.

If we don’t believe the above word of God, (we have no faith in the word of God, the line of

communication between God and us is still broken) we are reprobates among God’s children.

Blessings

LatinRight**