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ptisme
Guest
Sounds almost too good to be trueI am going to heaven. Not by anything I have done but what Jesus did for me.
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Giggly_Giraffe
Guest
I am in a hell … My office … Aka, “the bathroom” toilet training. I’ve been here since 2012. It started off hopeful that soon I would get out. Instead, I’ve been pee’ed on, pooped on time and time again. When I started to become angry, I got medicine from my doctor to get ride of anger so the little girls would not be tramatized while training. Meanwhile, one girl does well making pee in the potty, but she will not make poop in the potty. The other girl will always make poop in the potty, but cannot consistantly make pee in the potty. So between the two of them, I’m covered in pee and poop daily ---- a living hell.
Then I get an ounce of hope that the new training idea (stickers, lolly pops, letting them run around naked, dolls, watches with timers ) and then they always have to “Go potty” at the worst times. Like when the phones ringing (a personal torture for me), the pizza timer says to take the pizza out of the oven, and when we have guests … Yes, I’m trapped in a three by three room with two toddlers, a toilet, and a sink to wash hands …
People say, “don’t worry, they will be trained by kindergarden” … But how??? I’m in this confined space trapped and he moment they get out if this room and out of my site for just a second, they pee and poop. I’ve taken many books into this bathroom and we (me and those little girls have memorized “Peter rabbit”, “little Francis and the leapor”, “little mommy”, and “hi my names elmo”. They can almost read and they can count to 100 — both of them. This is how much time we have been in this small room. Yet, they cannot make ppop and pee in the toilet and we are in a miny time warp hell.
Save us dear lord… Have mercy on us … Please!!!
Then I get an ounce of hope that the new training idea (stickers, lolly pops, letting them run around naked, dolls, watches with timers ) and then they always have to “Go potty” at the worst times. Like when the phones ringing (a personal torture for me), the pizza timer says to take the pizza out of the oven, and when we have guests … Yes, I’m trapped in a three by three room with two toddlers, a toilet, and a sink to wash hands …
People say, “don’t worry, they will be trained by kindergarden” … But how??? I’m in this confined space trapped and he moment they get out if this room and out of my site for just a second, they pee and poop. I’ve taken many books into this bathroom and we (me and those little girls have memorized “Peter rabbit”, “little Francis and the leapor”, “little mommy”, and “hi my names elmo”. They can almost read and they can count to 100 — both of them. This is how much time we have been in this small room. Yet, they cannot make ppop and pee in the toilet and we are in a miny time warp hell.
Save us dear lord… Have mercy on us … Please!!!
S
SteveVH
Guest
Oh boy… As a former Catholic did you ever hear of the “sin of presumption”?I am going to heaven. Not by anything I have done but what Jesus did for me.
J
jmcrae
Guest
How old are they? Also, do they have friends their age who can do this? Peer pressure works. They don’t want to be babies forever, and when they see their peers growing up they will do the same.
If they were three when you started, they must be in second grade by now, or are these different kids from when you started?
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Giggly_Giraffe
Guest
Girls are 2.7 years old and 3.9 years old. Peer presure, tried it — failure. So, my oldest and dearest friend has a little girl too. She is 4.6 years old and potty trained. This little girl is kinda a bully and a leader who we thought for sure would give good peer presure. Instead, my girls not only influenced this older girl to regress in potty uses and they got her hooked onto the bottle (which she refused when she was a baby to Dad’s dismay). We were banished from long visits for a while while her mom fixed it.
We hang out a lot at Chick - a -Filet and Mc Donald’s. My 3.9 year old is so tall she naturally attracts older friends. She makes poop in her diapers and these children 5-7 will tell her she smells, she gets it fixed, and they go back to being best buddies …
The next thing I found today while reading about it was “white lies”. Tell her that each time she poops in the potty she will be feeding Nemo & Dori … But I already see a flaw I. This because when there is poop in diaper/undies we flush it down the toilet.
Our bathroom is filled with many pictures of BVM Mary. I seriously dought Jesus gave her any grief over this subject.
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jmcrae
Guest
Thanks. I’m under the impression that kids under the age of three can’t be toilet trained; they have neither the sphincter muscles nor the cognitive subtlety. The almost-four year old may simply be a slow developer.
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spedteacherita
Guest
I did a bit of searching to learn about the sin of presumption. I understand why one should be worried about presuming our inheritance that Jesus promises us…It could be like the one man in the temple praying, “Thank you, God, that I’m not like that man…” and then the other humbly prostrating himself on the floor and saying how much he does not deserve the blessings he’s given… (Let me know if i misunderstood this)
But we have these promises…This is where my confidence lies:
John 3:36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath remains on him.
1 John 5:11-13 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has this eternal life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have this eternal life. I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Acts 10:43 About him all the prophets testify, that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.
Colossians 2:13 And even though you were dead in your transgressions and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, he nevertheless made you alive with him, having forgiven all your transgressions.
John 5:24 “I tell you the solemn truth, the one who hears my message and believes the one who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned, but has crossed over from death to life.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Romans 4:1-6 What then shall we say that Abraham, our ancestor according to the flesh, has discovered regarding this matter? 2 For if Abraham was declared righteous by the works of the law, he has something to boast about—but not before God. 3 For what does the scripture say? “ Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his pay is not credited due to grace but due to obligation. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 So even David himself speaks regarding the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
Romans 4:25 He was given over because of our transgressions and was raised for the sake of our justification.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 it is not from works, so that no one can boast.
John 1:12 But to all who have received him—those who believe in his name—he has given the right to become God’s children
Romans 8:14-17 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery leading again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 And if children, then heirs (namely, heirs of God and also fellow heirs with Christ)—if indeed we suffer with him so we may also be glorified with him.
These Words and others are what I cling to when I say that I am confident that I will be with Christ when I die or if He returns before that time.
Is it wrong to presume when we have these Promises?
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SteveVH
Guest
Well, those are some fine verses. There are other verses as well, such as:
Matthew 25:1
“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.”
Matthew 25:10
“But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.”
The sin of presumption is based upon the fact that no one can really know if they have been saved until they stand before God. I have been “saved” many times, first at my Baptism when all sin was washed away. And then I grew and began to sin. I was “saved” again after my first confession, and every subsequent confession. I must stay close to my Church and to the sacraments which take away my sin. Those that “presume” to be saved have no reason to repent of their sins because, well… they are already saved.
So lets say we have a Fundamentalist who knows he was saved at 3:15 PM on July 2,1994, and falls into temptation and steps out on his wife. We consider adultery to be a mortal sin. If he does not confess his sin and repent he may very well find himself in hell. So was he right in his original presumption that he has been saved?
The point is that we have a responsibility to respond to God’s grace. So all these verses you cited are great, but they don’t mean a lot when we turn our back on God, which is what we do each and every time we sin. As Paul said, we must persevere. If we are saved at the moment we accept Christ, why must we persevere?
Now, Catholics don’t run around as if they have no idea whether or not they will be saved. I have great confidence in the mercy of God, but I also realize that I have a great responsibility to respond to God’s grace by asking for his forgiveness, by repenting of my sins and making my best effort to refrain from those sins and turn toward God. IOW, I do not take my salvation for granted. I can still be condemned if I grow complacent, thus I must remain vigilant and persevere to the end. I must keep my lamps full.
Peace.
Steve
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Isaiah45_9
Guest
I love those verses and many others as well.
The problem is that He also said:
Matthew 7:21 “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’
I sure don’t want to be on that group and I am certain you don’t either.
These are people that did prophesies, casting out of demons and mighty works… All in the name of Jesus.
The Lutheran Catechism teaches about the fear of the Lord. Repeatedly.
I think it is a healthy fear. Much better to have a healthy fear than a self-deceptive assurance.
If we are truly convinced that it is all in His hands, then we must then give it all to Him. He knows much better than us what to do with us.
Either we go all in without asking for a contract clause or we go lukewarm because the contract says so.
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MacQ
Guest
:bowdown:
Wonderful post
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spedteacherita
Guest
Steve and Isaiah,
Thanks for the response. I’ll ponder them tomorrow when my brain is back into “working condition.” I appreciate the discussion!
Thanks for the response. I’ll ponder them tomorrow when my brain is back into “working condition.” I appreciate the discussion!
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Larryk113
Guest
My thoughts exactly!!
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57Bill
Guest
Whatever happens to me will be True and Just. That alone is comforting. I don’t know if I am going to heaven or hell.
This fear and trembling???
I think the Greek interpretation is reverence, obedience?
are you guys really afraid of God?
Paul in 2 Cor 7:15 Paul is commending those who received Titus with “fear and trembling”
This fear and trembling???
I think the Greek interpretation is reverence, obedience?
are you guys really afraid of God?
Paul in 2 Cor 7:15 Paul is commending those who received Titus with “fear and trembling”
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SJacob7
Guest
Where do we draw the line between ‘faith’ and ‘presumption’?
There is numerous times where Jesus states ‘your faith has saved you’… This wasn’t presumption on the part of the person, but faith. One could say that they ‘presumed’ he would grant them what they were seeking. So, at what point does such a strong faith turn into the sin of presumption? Here is a good example;
In Matthew 9:28 it reads When he entered the house, the blind men approached him and Jesus said to them, “Do you believe that I can do this?” “Yes, Lord,” they said to him. 29 Then he touched their eyes and said, “Let it be done for you according to your faith.”
When Jesus asked if the men believed he could grant him his sight, the response was ‘yes Lord’. At what point does this answer constitute the sin of presumption? They didn’t reply with ‘I hope so’. Or, ‘we are praying you will’, or, ‘no one knows for sure’, he plainly said ‘yes Lord’. So Jesus granted them their sight ‘according to their ‘faith’. But weren’t these men being presumptuous? They never doubted.
We are told in 1 John 5:13 I write these things to you so that you may know that you have eternal life, you who believe in the name of the Son of God. (emphasis added)
So yes, we DO know if we have eternal life. Who will have eternal life? ‘you who believe in the name of the Son of God’. So am I being ‘presumptuous’ in believing this? Or, do I believe it by ‘faith’.
There seems to me to be a fine line between presumption and strong, believing faith. I think the sin of presumption has the potential to keep us from true faith in Jesus and what he said. But, that’s just my take on it! Thanks.
SJ
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spedteacherita
Guest
Great counter SJacob…That is really where my Christian walk lies. I don’t want to presume anything in my life when it comes to my spiritual faith but I do want to live within the comfort of His promises!
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Kliska
Guest
Reminds me of; 1Corinthians 1:26 For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29 so that no man may boast before God. 30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 so that, just as it is written, “Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord.”
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Isaiah45_9
Guest
Like I said before, Kliska, Rita and SJacob, I take great comfort in all these verses.
But what Christ says in
Matthew 7:21 “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’
Just trumps everything else.
The assurance is not yours, mine or anyone else’s to give.
But Christ alone. (John 10:27-30)
But what Christ says in
Matthew 7:21 “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’
Just trumps everything else.
The assurance is not yours, mine or anyone else’s to give.
But Christ alone. (John 10:27-30)
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SteveVH
Guest
The short answer is that we can always trust in God’s promises to us. It is not a lack of faith in what God can do, it is the realization that we have a responsibility to respond to God’s grace, not just at one moment of sincere faith, but for the rest of our lives. We have many examples, some of which have been given on this thread, that warn against “presuming” our salvation. Paul tells us that we must run the race to the end and that we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Jesus tells us that we must be vigilant and not let our lamps run out of oil lest the door be shut. Jesus tells us that not everyone who says “Lord, Lord” will enter the kingdom of heaven.
As I have said, I have great confidence that I will be in heaven, with the realization that I can also loose heaven if I do not persevere to the end. Since I am not yet at the end it would be presumptuous of me to say “I am saved”.
Peace.
Steve
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SteveVH
Guest
You should live with comfort in his promises. God will always keep his promises. Gaining salvation through accepting Christ as one’s Lord and Savior at some specific time in one’s life without regard to the rest of one’s life is not one of God’s promises. It is wishful thinking.
Steve
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Kliska
Guest
It does, but look at the verse; they are relying on their own works to save them. They don’t point to what He has done (hence, they are boasting in self, not in Him). “Look what WE have done in your name…” notice it is not “You, LORD, have done great things, have mercy on me, a sinner, I love Thee and trust Thee oh LORD.”
ETA; this verse is an accompanying verse that also offers a further insight into the Matthew quote; 1 Corinthians 8: 2 If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know; 3 but if anyone loves God, he is known by Him.
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