Do you feel offended by people who come to the CC dressed as if they were at a barbeque in their backyard?

[wisdomseeker]

And of course the issue of dressing so you don’t cause one to sin…is usually clear but not always. I had a guy at work staring at my chest…and I was wearing a large turtleneck sweater…What are you going to do?

are you comparing your work with the House of God?

 

[wisdomseeker]

I think this is the problem with all of these threads. The issues of dressing up and dressing modestly always get all mixed up.

I think pretty much everyone here would agree that one should dress modestly even if we don’t all agree on an exact definition of what that means. It also seems complaining about immodest dressing is an awful lot of “preaching to the choir” around here.

The issue of how “nice” one should dress for Mass seems a bit more contentious.

I just wish these threads could stick to one issue or the other instead of mixing them all together.

yes, dress with modesty and not dress up like in fine design cloth. i already said.

 

[zab]

are you comparing your work with the House of God?

again? Time for rereading.

 

[wisdomseeker]

again? Time for rereading.

yep!

 

[Ailina]

I am not asking anyone to dress up modestly for me. I am asking everyone to dress up, at least a complete dress when going to the House of God. as it too much to ask?
show some respect for the House of the Almighty.
shorts, women wearing pants and bowing with their backs to the people. not a very nice scene to look at it.

Your attitude is exactly why I’m afraid to go to a TLM. I will worry whether I offend parishioners because I don’t meet their standards, whatever those standards might be. I didn’t know that wearing pants was a sin, although they certainly are easier to wear than a dress and high heels.

Maybe this look will do since it covers pants and dresses:

http://www.vii.in/images/P/punjabi suit/Punjabi Suit-6.jpg

 

[PatrickSebast]

Reading a couple of these post on this topic just reeks of the American mentality “don’t tell me what to do or wear”.
In the first centuries of the Church, people had to worry about not being caught celebrating mass, so it would make sence to dress causal norm in order to not raise suspicion. I would not order somone to dress to “high standards” but just because you can’t afford a dress shirt and a tie does not mean you have to go to mass with a t-shirt with an image of beer bottel with a half naked chick. If a female can’t afford a nice outfit, but yet comes in with so much cleavage expesosed and pants so tight that it creates a
“camel toe” where is the justification in that? You really don’t have to be educated, it’s common sence! But in part I do blame part in the Church for not fully educating on what really happens at the mass. Women comming into mass exposed can lead other to sin by lusting, she is also held responsible for that sin because she has assisted a brother in Christ to sin.

I never argued against dressing modestly. I merely argued against the concept of dressing “nicely.” They are very different things.

 

[RuthCatherine]

I am just coming in on the tale end of this discussion and did not read through all the threads, but I guess I wanted to say a little something here.

Men and women alike should be dressing modestly whether they are at Mass or not. We are responsible for how we dress. We can’t go around dressing immodestly, wearing short skirts, short shorts, tight pants and then think, “well, if it offends them or causes them to be tempted to lust they will just have to look the other way.” We are responsible for how we dress. It seems most people agree modesty is needed, hopefully not just at Mass but everywhere, especially if you are a follow of Christ. We Catholics are to be a light on a hill. We are to be different than society.

I think as far as dressing up goes. Everyone can put on something nice. Most people have more shoes than just a pair of flipflops. There might be some, but I bet most of us have at least one shirt that is not a t-shirt with a slogan. It doesn’t have to be expensive. I don’t think the OP was asking anyone to dress expensively but to dress nice, to care about how you appear before the Lord. I’ll admit there are times I don’t dress nice, not because I don’t have anything, but because I don’t feel like it. I bet there are more of us that can say that. I believe that is how our society feels about the way we dress most times. I don’t feel like dressing up. I am more comfortable in my flipflops, t shirt and old blue jeans. If they don’t like it they can just look the other way.

Some people said the Church doesn’t care how you dress, God doesn’t care how you dress. I would suggest reading what Mary said when she appeared at Fatima,
“Certain fashions will be introduced that will offend our Lord very much.” When I read that it really made me stop and think how are we dressing today? Are we in the society that wears the clothing that offends our Lord very much. Am I a part? Men have to be careful, but women we are the ones who must be extremely careful how we dress. Some people are more easily distracted than others. Some may be able to close their eyes and not notice others but some can’t.

 

[PatrickSebast]

very well said. now, if one have money to buy an indescent cloth, why not instead use the money to by descent clothes? this is not about the money, this is about being ashamed of being a Catholic. just like so many outhere dont even want to do the sign of the Cross anymore.

It isn’t at all about being ashamed of being a Catholic. I have no shame in my faith and feel no fear in admitting it, and because I do my best to be kind and understanding of others very few people fault me for it even if they personally disagree. There is little shame in adhering to the Church’s teachings as long as you do your best to adhere to all of them.

I would however be embarrassed to wear one of my nice suits to mass every Sunday because I would simply standout too much. Oh and when are you going to get back to us on that pants thing? Clearly you thought there was something wrong with a woman in pants but you have yet to provide any reasoning.

 

[ThereseOfRoses]

Your attitude is exactly why I’m afraid to go to a TLM. I will worry whether I offend parishioners because I don’t meet their standards, whatever those standards might be. I didn’t know that wearing pants was a sin, although they certainly are easier to wear than a dress and high heels.

Maybe this look will do since it covers pants and dresses:

http://www.vii.in/images/P/punjabi suit/Punjabi Suit-6.jpg

And this is what comes to mind when I mentioned that women in certain cultures had been wearing “pants” since OT times (although the Asian image I was thinking of had a shorter tunic). I am both confused and offended that there are practicing Catholics that would think women are “rebelling” against God by wearing something like this. This is just as modest as a floor length denim skirt and long-sleeved, high collar blouse. It’s just from a different culture…and as I responded to an earlier post, the Church is Universal and we should not go about judging the modest apparel of others based on what was the “norm” in the European or American culture of the past.

 

[ThereseOfRoses]

Your attitude is exactly why I’m afraid to go to a TLM. I will worry whether I offend parishioners because I don’t meet their standards, whatever those standards might be. I didn’t know that wearing pants was a sin, although they certainly are easier to wear than a dress and high heels.

Maybe this look will do since it covers pants and dresses:

http://www.vii.in/images/P/punjabi suit/Punjabi Suit-6.jpg

Her sash would make a wonderful headcovering at TLM! I LOVE this outfit!!

 

[archangel04]

That’s probably more of my fault than the poster quoted. I asked (noting that it wasn’t the same thing) when it was that people started actually dressing up for Church. I tried to indicate it was mainly a curiosity thing on my part because I know from history that traditionally common folks didn’t own “Dress” clothes. I am not trying to use the past to justify what we do today or say “don’t tell me how to dress”. Standards aren’t the same now as they were then. But I also wanted to point out for about the first 1700 years of the Church, people didn’t “dress up.” They couldn’t. In the history of the Church, it’s a relatively new concept. And some people can’t afford to buy special Sunday clothes and dress up (I am one of them. I have nice/modest clothes, but I wear them to work too… I need to buy things that have several possible uses. And yes, they are a little worn).

I think people here are talking about two different things. Dressing “nice” as in “to the nines” and dressing “modestly.” They are two entirely different things. Someone dressed modestly need not be dressed up. Someone dressed up can be far from modest.

I agree to some point. Through out history of the Church, those that usually “dressed up” where the elites, noting wrong with that, and the common folk dressed to up in modesty. Modesty has always been part of the Church from the very start! You bring up good point that to “dress up” and modesty are usually different things. There is nothing wrong with wearing your “best” for Mass if it’s your way to show respect for God, but all clothes wethere cheap or expensive shoul be worn in modesty. Modesty have been part of our Church from the very start.

And of course the issue of dressing so you don’t cause one to sin…is usually clear but not always. I had a guy at work staring at my chest…and I was wearing a large turtleneck sweater…What are you going to do?

Yeah a lot of us guys are just pervs, but you did your part so you have no fault in that sin

Your attitude is exactly why I’m afraid to go to a TLM. I will worry whether I offend parishioners because I don’t meet their standards, whatever those standards might be. I didn’t know that wearing pants was a sin, although they certainly are easier to wear than a dress and high heels.

Maybe this look will do since it covers pants and dresses:

Please don’t stereotype TLM goers as all having one attitude, I aslo had this view before I started to attend, and I was completly wrong. As other posters have pointed out we are confusing modesty with dressing up. We are to be modest in our every day lives not just at Mass. Please do attend the TLM at least once, I promise you will not regret it.

 

[HAnne]

How about climate? It gets awfully cold up north during the winter. Is it OK for women to wear dressy slacks then?

I posted earlier on page 5 about our local area and proper dress standards here. Allow me to briefly elaborate for the sake of your argument.

I live in far Northern Montana. It doesn’t scare me to write that online because if you drove into my town it’s so remote and small that you would be immediately recognized as a stranger and be told to leave. I like my little town in the middle of nowhere…but I digress.

The people and security level are amazing but it comes at a very steep price…the weather.

In the summer it can reach the high 90’s. In the winter, it can reach as low as -45 and lower - and that’s BEFORE the wind chill added with 70 MPH winds. It’s windy 5-6 days out of 7. And I’m not talking just a light breeze…I’m talking wind that snaps poles in half with it’s gusts - average speed 30-40 MPH with 70+ MPH gusts.

In this environment, particularly the winter, one would have to be suicidal to venture out in ANYTHING less than FULL coverage of multiple layers. In order to wear a skirt to church from December until March generally you just change clothes in the bathroom when you arrive or wear pants (big thick fleece ones with long johns underneath!) and then remove them in the bathroom when you arrive. We don’t wear pants as a fashion statement or having anything to do with feminism. We wear them because without them we wouldn’t have legs.

You also won’t see pretty ballet flats or heeled pumps. We wear big, ugly, monstrous boots to keep our feet from freezing to death. If we REALLY want to look nice, we’ll bother to bring another pair of shoes with us - but don’t count on it. Again, this isn’t about fashion or feminism, it’s about survival.

If a lady was in a car driving to church here in dress shoes and a skirt and were stranded on the side of the road, her chances of survival in the winter would be almost 0. THIS is why we wear pants and ugly boots. In the summer, we wear pretty light dresses with blazers and pretty shoes…in the winter…well…you’d have to be INSANE!

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

In the summer it can reach the high 90’s. In the winter, it can reach as low as -45 and lower - and that’s BEFORE the wind chill added with 70 MPH winds. It’s windy 5-6 days out of 7. And I’m not talking just a light breeze…I’m talking wind that snaps poles in half with it’s gusts - average speed 30-40 MPH with 70+ MPH gusts.

In this environment, particularly the winter, one would have to be suicidal to venture out in ANYTHING less than FULL coverage of multiple layers. In order to wear a skirt to church from December until March generally you just change clothes in the bathroom when you arrive or wear pants (big thick fleece ones with long johns underneath!) and then remove them in the bathroom when you arrive. We don’t wear pants as a fashion statement or having anything to do with feminism. We wear them because without them we wouldn’t have legs.

You also won’t see pretty ballet flats or heeled pumps. We wear big, ugly, monstrous boots to keep our feet from freezing to death. If we REALLY want to look nice, we’ll bother to bring another pair of shoes with us - but don’t count on it. Again, this isn’t about fashion or feminism, it’s about survival.

If a lady was in a car driving to church here in dress shoes and a skirt and were stranded on the side of the road, her chances of survival in the winter would be almost 0. THIS is why we wear pants and ugly boots. In the summer, we wear pretty light dresses with blazers and pretty shoes…in the winter…well…you’d have to be INSANE!

I heard that…we spent 6 years in North Dakota. And when you have to get out in winter to pump your gas…if you are wearing a skirt and get a blast of cold…BRRR!!! Not to mention that with ballet flats or heeled pumps…you’ve got a good chance of losing traction and falling.

 

[HAnne]

I heard that…we spent 6 years in North Dakota. And when you have to get out in winter to pump your gas…if you are wearing a skirt and get a blast of cold…BRRR!!! Not to mention that with ballet flats or heeled pumps…you’ve got a good chance of losing traction and falling.

Oh there is NOTHING worse than an Arctic Wind Marilyn Moment!!! :winter: :snowing:

 

[ConstantineTG]

Please don’t stereotype TLM goers as all having one attitude, I aslo had this view before I started to attend, and I was completly wrong. As other posters have pointed out we are confusing modesty with dressing up. We are to be modest in our every day lives not just at Mass. Please do attend the TLM at least once, I promise you will not regret it.

I have to side with Ailana here. As much as I believe that many who go to church (regardless of form of Mass) are genuinely good people, most of us do not know traditionalists except the ones we meet here online at CAF. So the attitudes of those who we meet here are stereotyped into those whom we exepct to see at a TLM. I guess its a good reminder to people here to be at their best behavior always.

 

[vera_dicere]

Jesus wore sandals, he probably always wore teh most poorest of robes. We know from the Gospels that teh Holy Family were by no means wealthy.

Frankly, as long as its modest, ie. no excessive clevage and nothign so short you can see what the person had for breakfast if they bend over, I odnt’ care, and honestly, I dont’ thing God does either. At least they came to church!

Of course, then there’s the issue of the poor. Who determiens what is “dressed up”? Do teh parishes get a fashion committee? My family were friends with a family that were dirt poor, and their kids wore their school uniforms to mass because those were the “fanciest” clothing they had, but it was second hand and tattered. No one knows why someon is wearing jeans and a tee to Church, they might not be able to fork out for a decent set of glad rags.

But really, where I grew up, you’d be looking at a public faint if you showed up to Mass in the middle of summer dressed like you were going to some kind of high class funeral.

Its all starting to sound a little too snooty to me, no wonder Catholics are accused of snobbery!

 

[ConstantineTG]

Jesus wore sandals, he probably always wore teh most poorest of robes. We know from the Gospels that teh Holy Family were by no means wealthy.

Frankly, as long as its modest, ie. no excessive clevage and nothign so short you can see what the person had for breakfast if they bend over, I odnt’ care, and honestly, I dont’ thing God does either. At least they came to church!

Of course, then there’s the issue of the poor. Who determiens what is “dressed up”? Do teh parishes get a fashion committee? My family were friends with a family that were dirt poor, and their kids wore their school uniforms to mass because those were the “fanciest” clothing they had, but it was second hand and tattered. Know one knows why someon is wearing jeans and a tee to Church, they might not be able to fork out for a decent set of glad rags.

But really, where I grew up, you’d be looking at a public faint if you showed up to Mass in the middle of summer dressed like you were going to some kind of high class funeral.

Its all starting to sound a little too snooty to me, no wonder Catholics are accused of snobbery!

The sandals and robes thing should be understood in its context. Remember that that was the norm during the time. Its not like people had suits and ties back then and Jesus chose to wear sandals and robes. If you look back 50-100 years ago, suits are more the norm rather than something extraordinary you wear to church. It was a modest era and people wore modest clothing. We may think that t-shirt and jeans is immodest in church, but people today are doing just what we have been doing all along the last 2000 years. That is wear what the normal clothing is of the time.

 

[Holly3278]

I am not asking anyone to dress up modestly for me. I am asking everyone to dress up, at least a complete dress when going to the House of God. as it too much to ask?
show some respect for the House of the Almighty.
shorts, women wearing pants and bowing with their backs to the people. not a very nice scene to look at it.

No offense but some of us can’t afford a dress. Others look horrible in them. And still others don’t fit in any of the sizes available without buying an extremely expensive custom sized one. I wear pants and a nice shirt to Mass all the time and I am not at all ashamed of it! I dress the best I can and if that offends someone else then that is their problem and not mine.

 

[LilyM]

The sandals and robes thing should be understood in its context. Remember that that was the norm during the time. Its not like people had suits and ties back then and Jesus chose to wear sandals and robes.

Not suits, but his robes could’ve been all of silk, they could’ve been dyed with expensive purple dye, they could’ve been decorated with fine gold embroidery and gemstones, they could’ve been dressy in any number of ways. On top of which he could’ve loaded his person with tons of gold and gems in the form of jewellery as well.

They weren’t and he didn’t. These two facts alone speak VOLUMES.

 

[pnewton]

As no one has posted this yet:

James 2:1 My brothers, show no partiality as you adhere to the faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ.
2 For if a man with gold rings on his fingers and in fine clothes comes into your assembly, and a poor person in shabby clothes also comes in, 3 and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say, “Sit here, please,” while you say to the poor one, “Stand there,” or “Sit at my feet,” 4 have you not made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil designs?

Now before someone starts reminding me that the Catholic Church is the interpretor of Scripture (something that is not strictly true), I will invite, once again, for anyone to show where the Catholic Church has proscribed pants, or any other casual wear, for Mass.

If the Church has not mandated certain attire, then no one here should be “making distinctions” and holding, judging and condemning others for not adhering to their personal standards.

But at least we see Christians have been doing this for 2000 years.