Do you feel uncomfortable that JP2's sainthood is being fast-tracked and that his canonization appears to be a forgone conclusion?

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Do you feel uncomfortable that JP2’s sainthood is being fast-tracked and that his canonization appears to be a forgone conclusion?

I do. Sainthood is too important a matter to be playing favorites (or at least that’s how it seems). There is a system in place for determining canonicity, and it should be followed without exception.
 
Lepanto said:
Do you feel uncomfortable that JP2’s sainthood is being fast-tracked and that his canonization appears to be a forgone conclusion?

I do. Sainthood is too important a matter to be playing favorites (or at least that’s how it seems). There is a system in place for determining canonicity, and it should be followed without exception.
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Yeah I do. Much as I do with Mother Theresa. Both are magnificent example of humankind. But there are many other magnificent examples who do not enjoy their level of PR and that seems terribly unfair.
 
Lepanto said:
Do you feel uncomfortable that JP2’s sainthood is being fast-tracked and that his canonization appears to be a forgone conclusion?

I do. Sainthood is too important a matter to be playing favorites (or at least that’s how it seems). There is a system in place for determining canonicity, and it should be followed without exception.
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I don’t. I trust that the Vatican is above board on this as I trust them in sooooo many areas concerning the faith. In the end, if the Holy Father declares John Paul II (the Great) a saint, then he is a saint. The same applies for Mother Theresa. God bless.
 
Absolutley no way. In fact I am a little dismayed at why it is taking so long!

Canonization, the process the Church uses to name a saint, has only been used since the tenth century. For hundreds of years, starting with the first martyrs of the early Church, saints were chosen by public acclaim.

The faithful, through the Magesterium of the Church will continue, and have every right, to canonize by popular acclaim men and women of outstanding holiness. This is the way it has always happened. The “popular acclaim” for the late Pontiff, which was so evident at his death and particularly at his funeral, was a clear indication of the widespread belief that John Paul II was a model of Christian virtue.

Dispensation of the traditional 5 year waiting period is a response to a massive call from ‘Christifideles Laici’ to raise a person or persons to the honours of the Altar.

So let it be Lord, and soon!!
 
Lepanto said:
Do you feel uncomfortable that JP2’s sainthood is being fast-tracked and that his canonization appears to be a forgone conclusion?

I do. Sainthood is too important a matter to be playing favorites (or at least that’s how it seems). There is a system in place for determining canonicity, and it should be followed without exception.
Click to expand...
That is not an entirely fair statement ALL saints were fast tracked for the last 25 years. That is just the way the late Pope did things.

No I am not worried he was an outstanding example of holyness I hope to some day be half the man. His love of God and personal holyness are simply beyond question. A thought shared by millions. He was one of the Great Popes.
 
Ghoti said:
I think Tietjen was punning on you being “half a pope”…like if you were part of a Vatican magic show…(saw saw saw)
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Actually, I was punning (although not very well apparently) over the fact that the OP stated that they some day wished to be “half the man” that His Holiness was; however, in the OP’s signature, it indicates that the OP is 22 weeks and 2 days pregnant. If this is the case, I believe that it might be near impossible for the OP to achieve their goal… (IE - I assumed the OP was in fact a female). 😊
 
Fergal said:
Absolutley no way. In fact I am a little dismayed at why it is taking so long!

Canonization, the process the Church uses to name a saint, has only been used since the tenth century. For hundreds of years, starting with the first martyrs of the early Church, saints were chosen by public acclaim.

The faithful, through the Magesterium of the Church will continue, and have every right, to canonize by popular acclaim men and women of outstanding holiness. This is the way it has always happened. The “popular acclaim” for the late Pontiff, which was so evident at his death and particularly at his funeral, was a clear indication of the widespread belief that John Paul II was a model of Christian virtue.

Dispensation of the traditional 5 year waiting period is a response to a massive call from ‘Christifideles Laici’ to raise a person or persons to the honours of the Altar.

So let it be Lord, and soon!!
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👍
 
Fergal said:
The faithful, through the Magesterium of the Church will continue, and have every right, to canonize by popular acclaim men and women of outstanding holiness.
Click to expand...
Sainthood by popular acclaim is no longer used (as you concede), so I’m not sure I understand this.

And where is cannization by popular acclaim enshrined as a “right”?
 
down_under said:
That is not an entirely fair statement ALL saints were fast tracked for the last 25 years. That is just the way the late Pope did things.
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True, and I never felt comfortable about that, either.

Why short-circuit a process that’s been designed to ensure authentic canonicity? Doing so increases the possibility of factors coming into play (for or against canonization) that really should have no bearing.

If a person is truly a saint and is going to be canonized then he will in God’s time. There shouldn’t be a schedule or quota system.
 
I have absolutely no problem with John Paul II The Great, being fast tracked to canonization, if that’s actually happening.

Remember, our form of communication is 100 times faster than in the past. So, what seems to be fast tract, is actually the means that modern technology is making possible.

BTW, I believe it is Pope Benedict XVI that put John Paul II on the fast tract to canonization.

Jim
 
I believe that Pope John Paul the Great will indeed be named a Great Saint, possibly a white martyr. (one who gives their entire life to the Lord.) If you have ever read about his life you would see that is so true for him.
As for Blessed Mother Teresa, she was indeed also a living Saint, anyone who knew her or knew of her trusted her and loved her as they saw Christ in action in her life.
I see nothing wrong at all.
 
There is no reason to feel uncomfortable about any soul on the fast track to sainthood.

For example, suppose Ralph (a very good man) died and was placed on the fast track. So 9 weeks later St. Ralph has his very own feast day (yes, I’m exaggerating).

Now, unbeknownst to the Church, a mistake was made.:eek: Ralph is whiling his days away in a particularly unpleasant spot in purgatory.:eek: :eek: But the whole Church is pleading for his intercessions on their behalf. :eek: :eek: :eek:

No problem. Souls in Purgatory intercede for us all the time. Sooner or later Ralph will make it through Purgatory and enter into the beatific vision. No harm, no foul, and nobody outside of heaven is any the wiser to what at worse is an ecclesial bueaucratic oops.
 
Marsha_Adams said:
Now, unbeknownst to the Church, a mistake was made. Ralph is whiling his days away in a particularly unpleasant spot in purgatory… Sooner or later Ralph will make it through Purgatory and enter into the beatific vision. No harm, no foul, and nobody outside of heaven is any the wiser to what at worse is an ecclesial bueaucratic oops.
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Note quite. Unless I am mistaken, canonization is an infallible decree of the Church, which means that the Holy Spirit prevents it from being in error. If the Church declares Ralph a Saint (and I think my dad Ralph is one btw), then there is no doubt that Ralph is already in Heaven.
 
Lepanto said:
True, and I never felt comfortable about that, either.

Why short-circuit a process that’s been designed to ensure authentic canonicity? Doing so increases the possibility of factors coming into play (for or against canonization) that really should have no bearing.

If a person is truly a saint and is going to be canonized then he will in God’s time. There shouldn’t be a schedule or quota system.
Click to expand...
The Church has the power of the Holy Spirit to know who is in heaven and who is not. I don’t think that the other Saints would at all be jealous of PJPII’s fast canonization or Mother Teresa’s either. These were two people who were not only Saints in the eye’s of everyday Catholics but also everyday Protestants, Muslims, Hindus, etc. They did their share of bring many, many people to God - myself included.
 
Lepanto said:
True, and I never felt comfortable about that, either.

Why short-circuit a process that’s been designed to ensure authentic canonicity? Doing so increases the possibility of factors coming into play (for or against canonization) that really should have no bearing.

If a person is truly a saint and is going to be canonized then he will in God’s time. There shouldn’t be a schedule or quota system.
Click to expand...
I understand being uncomfortable with the idea of playing favorites, and I think part of the relative slowness of the process is meant to ensure that once someone is acknowledged to be a saint we don’t find out about any dirty laundry that might be confusing to the weaker brethren. Nonetheless, if the Church uses Her power to declare John Paul II a saint, then, as others have said, he’s a saint. We don’t have to worry that the Church got it wrong, because she can’t.
 
Lepanto said:
Do you feel uncomfortable that JP2’s sainthood is being fast-tracked and that his canonization appears to be a forgone conclusion?

I do. Sainthood is too important a matter to be playing favorites (or at least that’s how it seems). There is a system in place for determining canonicity, and it should be followed without exception.
Click to expand...
What, exactly, is being “fast-tracked”? The only thing I am aware of is that the 5 year waiting rule was waived by His Holiness B16.

If I am not mistaken, the main reason for the waiting period was to allow a cooling off time (there is usually an outpouring of love for someone just after death) to allow for emotions to subside and permit the Church could look at the person’s life/interview witnesses/study documents in a calmer light. (I personally think the main reason for B16 getting rid of the waiting period is that the love for JPII continues to grow unabated).

I do not see where anyone has suggested that a thorough investigation not be done or witness statements collected or JPII’s written works reviewed. I do not see a waiver for the requirement of a valid miracle. So, please, again, what is being “fast-tracked”?
 
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