Do you find a problem with Mary as an Intercessor?

[aidanbradypop]

*Why do Catholics believe Mary to be an intercessor? There is only one intercessor and that is Christ. *

I get that all the time.

Isn’t Mary just a created human like all of us? And according to the Bible, isn’t Jesus the ONE intercessor between God and man?

And that one as well

Open your Bible open to Genesis 3:15. We see God’s first promise to the fallen man, and there we will find the first reference to “the woman” whose “seed” would someday crush the head of the serpent.

People will maintain their own intepretation of things, but one thing is for certain, Mary is that “woman” spoken about in Genesis 3:15. Mary said yes when God sent Gabriel to ask her to be the mother of his divine Son. Mary remained Jesus’ mom from there after. When someone’s mother dies, does she stop being their mother? Anyone who expects Jesus to ignore this fact, and merely discard his mother Mary, once she had served her purpose, doesn’t know God!

Go to Luke1:32

Gabriel explains to Mary precisely WHO her Son will be. One of his titles is the eternal King of the Royal House of Israel. And since Mary will ALWAYS be Jesus’ mom, Mary will ALWAYS remain the mother of the King. According to the practices of the Royal House, first established by King David, later observed and followed by King Solomon, and ratified by God, through the authentic scriptures, the MOTHER of the King is the QUEEN, and the official duty of the Queen of the Royal House is to intercede with the King, on behalf of the people.

Let’s look at 1 Kings 2 beginning with verse 12 for the proof.

Witness a disgruntled and powerless Adonais approaching Bathsheba, the Queen Mother, asking her to intercede for him, with King Solomon. Then, witness the way the Queen is subsequently received. The Queen enjoys unrestricted access to the King. As the Queen approaches, the King sets up a throne for her, at this right hand. Now I am not saying Mary is seated at the right Hand of the Father, but you get where I am going with this.

He bows, and gives her his undivided attention. Those familiar with the Ten Commandments might recognize this as “Honor your Father and your Mother.” Remeber on the cross when Christ proclaimed Mary as the Mother of all? Some will say that Christ merely meant that John was to take care of Mary, but if you are Protestant, you probably believe that Christ had brothers and sisters. In the Jewish custom, the next eldest son would take charge of Mary so that kind of knock out the theory that John was to take care of the Blessed Mother. Christ gave His mother to us all. Protestants believe that we are brothers and sisters of Christ so logically, I hope, if we are brothers and sisters in Christ and with Christ, then should not we share the same mother?

Back to the Scriptures. There’s nothing in the rules that says the King must grant his mother’s request! Catholics rightly understand that these Old Testament events prefigure the grace-filled, New Testament reality. In the New Testament, Jesus works a miracle at Cana, simply because his mother (the woman) asks, while one of the enduring promises of Christ is that all the faithful will rule and reign with him, in eternity.

It was Jesus who clearly stated that he is the God of the living, and not the dead … and that Abraham was able to see his coming, and was glad.

For these and other very good reasons, Catholics believe that the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Queen Mother of the House of Israel, and the mother of Jesus Christ, is also alive and in Heaven, ruling and reigning with Jesus, the Eternal King of the Ages, just as he promised.

Mary intercedes on our behalf because her sole mission is to bring up closer to her Son. We humbly ask for her prayers. Is that wrong?

If you believe that there is only ONE intercessor and that is Christ, then stick to your belief and do not ask anyone for prayers. If you do so then you are asking that person to intercede on you behalf.

Thoughts?

 

[PRmerger]

*Why do Catholics believe Mary to be an intercessor? There is only one intercessor and that is Christ. *

I think I just heard Jimmy Akin say that Scripture does not say that there is only one intercessor, but rather that there is One Mediator.

The difference is a subtle but important one.

We all intercede for each other, as you rightly refer to, when we pray for each other.

Truly, one cannot reject the Intercession of the Saints without also rejecting Prayer Chains at our churches.

 

[aidanbradypop]

I think I just heard Jimmy Akin say that Scripture does not say that there is only one intercessor, but rather that there is One Mediator.

The difference is a subtle but important one.

We all intercede for each other, as you rightly refer to, when we pray for each other.

Truly, one cannot reject the Intercession of the Saints without also rejecting Prayer Chains at our churches.

One Mediator when it comes to salvation, but we are all mediators for one another. Mediator is someone that is in the middle. Sinner - Christ - God. Christ being the Mediator when it comes to salvation. Asking someone to pray for you on earth or in Heaven turns them into a mediator and intercessor, because you have placed that person between you and God.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Sometimes I like to say, “Oh, you only go straight to Jesus, so if I understand correctly, you don’t ever go to Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Isaiah, etc…” and then hopefully they can begin to see that going to another is not automatically an obstacle or an “alternative” to Christ.

 

[Boulder257]

I think I just heard Jimmy Akin say that Scripture does not say that there is only one intercessor, but rather that there is One Mediator.

The difference is a subtle but important one.

We all intercede for each other, as you rightly refer to, when we pray for each other.

Truly, one cannot reject the Intercession of the Saints without also rejecting Prayer Chains at our churches.

The bold is mine. I don’t understand why this concept is so difficult for protestants to understand, but you raise a very valid point.

 

[Lochias]

Sometimes I like to say, “Oh, you only go straight to Jesus, so if I understand correctly, you don’t ever go to Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Isaiah, etc…” and then hopefully they can begin to see that going to another is not automatically an obstacle or an “alternative” to Christ.

Ha, awesome. I bet that gets a few looks, eh?

 

[ConstantineTG]

All saints are intercessors. If one understands the communion of saints, then understanding how one saint is an intercessor is not a problem. This goes back to my thread about a Church being about Communion. If we understand our entire Church life as Communion, and understand our salvation as Communion with God and to one another, then intercessions are very, very, very easy to understand.

 

[PRmerger]

All saints are intercessors. If one understands the communion of saints, then understanding how one saint is an intercessor is not a problem. This goes back to my thread about a Church being about Communion. If we understand our entire Church life as Communion, and understand our salvation as Communion with God and to one another, then intercessions are very, very, very easy to understand.

 

[Yerusalyim]

I think I just heard Jimmy Akin say that Scripture does not say that there is only one intercessor, but rather that there is One Mediator.

The difference is a subtle but important one.

We all intercede for each other, as you rightly refer to, when we pray for each other.

Truly, one cannot reject the Intercession of the Saints without also rejecting Prayer Chains at our churches.

I concur and have made this point several times myself…if other people can pray for me…so can the saints in heaven…and they pray perfectly within the will of God…

 

[PietroPaolo]

Sometimes I like to say, “Oh, you only go straight to Jesus, so if I understand correctly, you don’t ever go to Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Isaiah, etc…” and then hopefully they can begin to see that going to another is not automatically an obstacle or an “alternative” to Christ.

I’m definitely using this

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

I agree with most people here that intercession is asking others to pray for you - whether they are saints in heaven or people on earth.

Mary is especially powerful - a pure soul is granted everything.

Heaven is a kingdom and Mary is the Queen. Read the book of Kings and look at the relationship between the King and Bathsheba (the Queen mother).

Someone comes to the Queen and asks her to intercede on his behalf.

1 Kings 2:20 She said, ‘I have one small request to make you; do not refuse me.’** ‘Mother,’ the king replied, 'make your request, for I shall not refuse you.**

Peace,
John

 

[105lynne]

Yes, Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. But we ask for Mary’s intercession between us and Jesus. That’s how I’ve always explained it…

 

[PattiDay]

As a child, did you ever want something a whole, whole lot, and did you not then go to your mother, feeling that if you asked her, she would ask your father for you? And then did not your father agree more times than not? So, did you not then go directly to your father the next time you wanted something a whole, whole lot? No, you went back to your mother. Why? Because she was so much better at taking your wants and presenting them in the best light. Where your words might be stumbling and your reasoning lame, your mother’s words were articulate and her reasoning sound. And if your father did not agree, were you not spared the hurt or humiliation or even anger that you might feel toward him? Yes, your mother would return to you and help you to understand that your father wasn’t being mean, that perhaps now was not the right time for this thing you wanted so badly, and that your father wanted only the best for you. Thank God for mothers. I go to my Heavenly Mother all the time, because she will ask in her motherly way, which is always the best way.

 

[EIF5A]

Just out of curiosity, what’s the point of praying to other saints if Mary is the most powerful intercessor for us? And is she praying to/asking God the Father or to God the Son?

 

[aidanbradypop]

Just out of curiosity, what’s the point of praying to other saints if Mary is the most powerful intercessor for us? And is she praying to/asking God the Father or to God the Son?

out of curiosity, why ask a fellow sinner to pray for you?

 

[PRmerger]

Just out of curiosity, what’s the point of praying to other saints if Mary is the most powerful intercessor for us?

Because all saints can act as intercessors. You don’t only ask your pastor to pray for you. You ask the community in your church.

And is she praying to/asking God the Father or to God the Son?

Both/and.

 

[PRmerger]

I concur and have made this point several times myself…if other people can pray for me…so can the saints in heaven…and they pray perfectly within the will of God…

Right.

And then the objection changes to, “But the saints in heaven can’t hear your prayers!”, without ever acknowledging, 'Ok. I see that praying to the saints isn’t contradicting the Scripture that says that there is only One Mediator, Jesus."

(As far as the saints in heaven not being able to hear us, that’s a man-made tradition as well that no one has ever read in a single page of the Bible!)

 

[EIF5A]

Because all saints can act as intercessors. You don’t only ask your pastor to pray for you. You ask the community in your church.

I get the impression Jesus does not say no to Mary. So if not Mary, then who else?

 

[R_C]

If a Christian doesn’t understand why we pray so fervently for her intercession, then the issue is not with Our Lady, but with the Communion of Saints mentioned in the Symbolum Apostolorum. Christians who don’t understand the role of Our Lady and the saints are also questioning the Good News itself:

You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God…have you not read what God said to you, I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living. …] I am the resurrection and the life: he that believes in me, although he be dead, shall live: and every one that lives, and believes in me, shall not die for ever.

If everyone grasps this very basic fact, then it would finally appear utterly ridiculous that we cannot ask Our Lady or the saints in heaven for prayer and intercession, because they are as a live as you and me (or perhaps even more). To be consistent, they would have to cease to pray for one another and as for each other’s prayer and focus instead on each of us individually praying to God for ourselves…but this contradicts the very Scripture:

pray for those who persecute you (Matthew 5:44)

pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working (James 5:16)

Praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints (Ephesians 6:18)

I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people (1 Timothy 2:1)

Brothers, pray for us (1 Thessalonians 5:25)

I appeal to you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf (Romans 15:30)

Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored (2 Thessalonians 3:1)

At the same time, pray also for us (Colossians 4:3)

The four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints (Revelation 5:8)

Is this a Vatican romish papish concept that we are promoting? Or is this not the teaching of Sacred Scripture and of Sacred Tradition? Are not the Church Fathers who so taught:

In this way is the true Christian always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him in prayer. (Clement of Alexandria)

But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels . . . as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep. (Origen)

Let us on both sides [of death] always pray for one another … that if one of us, by the swiftness of divine condescension, shall go hence first, our love may continue in the presence of the Lord, and our prayers for our brethren and sisters not cease in the presence of the Father’s mercy. (Cyprian of Carthage)

Hail to you for ever, Virgin Mother of God, our unceasing joy, for to you do I turn again. You are the beginning of our feast; you are its middle and end; the pearl of great price that belongs to the kingdom; the fat of every victim, the living altar of the Bread of Life. Hail, you treasure of the love of God…we ask you, the most excellent among women, who glories in the confidence of your maternal honors, that you would unceasingly keep us in remembrance. (Methodius)

[during the Eucharistic prayer] we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition (Cyril of Jerusalem)

By the command of your only-begotten Son we communicate with the memory of your saints . . . by whose prayers and supplications have mercy upon us all, and deliver us for the sake of your holy name (Liturgy of St. Basil)

He that wears the purple stands begging of the saints to be his patrons with God, and he that wears a diadem begs the tentmaker [Paul] and the fisherman [Peter] as patrons, even though they be dead…When you perceive that God is chastening you, fly not to his enemies . . . but to his friends, the martyrs, the saints, and those who were pleasing to him, and who have great power (John Chrysostom)

May Peter, who wept so efficaciously for himself, weep for us and turn towards us Christ’s benign countenance (Ambrose)

You say in your book that while we live we are able to pray for each other, but afterwards when we have died, the prayer of no person for another can be heard. . . . But if the apostles and martyrs while still in the body can pray for others, at a time when they ought still be solicitous about themselves, how much more will they do so after their crowns, victories, and triumphs? (Jerome)

At the Lord’s table we do not commemorate martyrs in the same way that we do others who rest in peace so as to pray for them, but rather that they may pray for us. (Augustine)

Obviously we cannot recall off the top of our head all of the above every time a Christian following a doctrine full of errors complains about our prayer to the saints and to Our Lady, but we have the absolute certainty that they are utterly mistaken as the teaching they follow (in ignorance and good faith) stands against both Scripture and Tradition. Knowledge of this undeniable fact humbles us greatly, for on us rests the full burden (if burden shall we call it) of asking our intercessors to pray on our behalf, when so much more would be accomplished if the whole humanity - or at least the entirety of the baptized - were to join us in prayer as Christ wills it.

 

[EIF5A]

Right.

And then the objection changes to, “But the saints in heaven can’t hear your prayers!”, without ever acknowledging, 'Ok. I see that praying to the saints isn’t contradicting the Scripture that says that there is only One Mediator, Jesus."

(As far as the saints in heaven not being able to hear us, that’s a man-made tradition as well that no one has ever read in a single page of the Bible!)

When is the first instance (ancient writing of church fathers or oral tradition) where Christians are told to pray to saints that have reposed?