Do you find a problem with Mary as an Intercessor?

[Lochias]

Misquoting me and resorting to ad hominems. Sorry, when the flaming starts I disengage.

Most people with an untenable argument will disengage when confronted with hard evidence contrary to their misguided opinions. Nihil novi sub sole.

 

[rinnie]

Sometimes I like to say, “Oh, you only go straight to Jesus, so if I understand correctly, you don’t ever go to Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Isaiah, etc…” and then hopefully they can begin to see that going to another is not automatically an obstacle or an “alternative” to Christ.

I like to say oh, then only Catholic’s ask one another to pray for them. Then they say NO. We ask for prays of others.

Then I say, then why can’t we ask the Blessed Mother. Then I get

 

[rinnie]

First, Abraham prayed (or spoke) directly with God. There was no intermediary.
Second, if you pray for someone that is not the same thing as praying to them, not the same thing at all.
Third, only God has an infinite mind.

Really? Okay then why did God tells Jobs friends to ask Job to pray for them.

I am angry with you and with your 2 friends. For you have not spoken rightly concerning me as has my servant Job.

Now therefore take 7 bullocks and 7 rams and offer up a holocaust for yourselves and LET my servant JOB PRAY FOR YOU. for HIS prayers I WILL ACCEPT n ot to punish you severely.

While I agree with you that praying for someone is not the same as praying to them. I do believe that when you are in a state of sin God does not accept all prayers.

It sometimes takes someone who is not in a state of sin to pray for you. That is why Catholic’s have confession.

It is a Priest who has the power to forgive in the name of Christ and re-unite us back into the grace of God.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

while i pray for you, it’s sad you’ve resorted to insults.

Yes sadly faithdancer is into insults and prideful boasting as well.

"having completed 11 graduate courses in theology from a roman catholic seminary and college… (including mariology and revelations) i’m not hearing anything new here, just getting lectured by folks who don’t understand why jesus christ himself" faithdancer

 

[rinnie]

First, Abraham prayed (or spoke) directly with God. There was no intermediary.
Second, if you pray for someone that is not the same thing as praying to them, not the same thing at all.
Third, only God has an infinite mind.

By the way the Lord spoke to Jobs friends directly and told them he would not accept their prayers. But did tell them he would accept Jobs prayers.

So what do you call Job praying for his friends is Job not an intecessor?

So you see here why Catholic’s pray to the Blessed Mother because we know her prayers are accepted by Christ and others Saints also may I add, because God accepts all prayers by People said in a state of his good grace.

Please do not confuse accepting prayers with doing what one asks. While God accepts all prayers from those not separated by him with mortal sin, as he will always answer those prayers, you are not guaranteed a Yes.

The only way you will a yes is if it is for your good and the will of God. People forget sometimes he says NO.

There is no such thing as an unanswered prayer. But there are No’s at times.

But anyway I hope you come back and answer my question. I am eager to hear your response. God Bless.

 

[KathleenGee]

If you have no intercessors, you have no church, no Christian brotherhood.

Again, if people are into fractured denominations that partly exalt themselves by drawing out examples showing that the universal Christian Church instituted by Christ is false, then I would pack up and find another community. They don’t have much to stand on.

We don’t go to heaven on our merits or our understanding of Christ. Christ is calling us to communion with Him and with each believer. He did not leave us orphans to figure out, after the Apostles died, what He meant and how He taught, and how He wanted us to worship. The Lord did not leave us orphans to put ideas together to define what makes us different than other religions, or leave us to our own personal authority to figure out Scripture.

If the Lord intended us to follow Sola Scriptura, I am afraid Christianity would have died out itself shortly after the last apostles and their followers died, leaving no deposit of faith, no form of worship, no one in authority representing Christ, no acceptable recognition of what is holiness in this world.

And especially disconcerting would be the fact that there would not be any bibles, especially King James version around either as the Lord did not have any bibles to pass out either.

 

[KathleenGee]

Faithdancer,

I honestly do not know how you could go through so many graduate courses of theology and come out perceiving faith as something so individualistic and with no context.

Abraham is patriarch of faith and is the father of the beginning of the Jewish people and the descendants of his union with Hagar. He is exemplary in his faith and was thus so rewarded by God. And he lived in a most ancient time.

The world Abraham lived in then is not the same as the world today, and salvation history has shown us many great examples of faith, and these part of a gathering of people.

Our faith is not just based on Sacred Scripture. It did not end with the Acts, Epistles, and the book of Revelations. The Jews show us the witness of faith, or lack of, in the Old Testament. The New Testament shows us the beginning foundation of the Church, this time based and founded on Jesus Christ – not Abraham – with His apostles.

You will not find you answer until you see how Christianity was lived out from its earliest times – the Tradition of Faith – as well as the process of putting the books of the Bible together.

Such faith was not based on one person like Abraham, but a community of human beings, not always thinking the same, not always in harmony, but always challenging and seeking the truth of the Holy Spirit at work in the Church, comprised of many, many people.

I think you are using your studies from the perspective of a solitary fundamentalist rather than as Catholic and are missing a huge part of your education – the Tradition of faith.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Come back Faith :hug1: I know you were busy and rushing this morning, but I really want to have this conversation, you may be right, I’ll never know.

 

[Nicea325]

Originally Posted by Faithdancer
Having completed 11 graduate courses in theology from a Roman Catholic seminary and college… (including Mariology and Revelations) I’m not hearing anything new here, just getting lectured by folks who don’t understand why Jesus Christ himself taught us to pray to God and no one else.

Come again? If that is what you were truly taught, I would highly suggest getting a refund.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Technically speaking, that is true (praying to God alone). Because we believe in the Communion of Saints, we believe that God is inside each and every person in communion with Him. So to pray to a saint is to pray to God.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Technically speaking, that is true (praying to God alone). Because we believe in the Communion of Saints, we believe that God is inside each and every person in communion with Him. So to pray to a saint is to pray to God.

I will raise my glass to that

 

[Nicea325]

Technically speaking, that is true (praying to God alone). Because we believe in the Communion of Saints, we believe that God is inside each and every person in communion with Him. So to pray to a saint is to pray to God.

 

[rinnie]

Technically speaking, that is true (praying to God alone). Because we believe in the Communion of Saints, we believe that God is inside each and every person in communion with Him. So to pray to a saint is to pray to God.

Yes but we have to be real careful with that. Because we will be accused of saying that Saint is has become God. Only someone who truly understands that true meaning of the Communion of Saints can understand this.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Yes but we have to be real careful with that. Because we will be accused of saying that Saint is has become God. Only someone who truly understands that true meaning of the Communion of Saints can understand this.

I see your point, but I really do not care anymore about being a accused of this or that. Accusation will be thrown no matter how many times we explain it. You can tell some people exactly what the Church teaches and they will still believe the lie they were told by a Protestant pastor or other member. I see it all the time.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Astonishing how good people are easily led so far astray. You read the Mormon thread with the creation/fall spin? Wow, is all I can say, actually scary.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Yes but we have to be real careful with that. Because we will be accused of saying that Saint is has become God. Only someone who truly understands that true meaning of the Communion of Saints can understand this.

Why should we be careful with the truth?

 

[aidanbradypop]

Why should we be careful with the truth?

Right. They can accuse all day long, but the truth is the truth.