Do you have a community?

[spunjalebi]

I’ve been thinking about this topic for a while because I don’t have a sense of community.

My husband and I attend Mass, but we don’t do anything at church. There are a few reasons, but the main one is we are only satisfied with what we’ve seen. The church is borderline liberal, but compared to some of the nonsense we’ve seen, it’ll do.

We don’t have friends. I vacillate between wanting friends and wanting my peace with low-drama life. I don’t want to sound like I hate people, but I’ve learned a lot of people can pull the wool over your eyes and have a lot of drama. I want to avoid it, but I also need to be a better judge of character.

When I visit a more “traditional” church, I always feel out of place. We have no children (and I have no idea if, and when we will), I’m a convert, and we’re not that crunchy. I get the sense a lot of the traditional churches have types of people, the people who have lots of children, spurn the ways of the world, and grew up Catholic.

As I get older it occurred to me how lonely it is. I don’t want things to be this way but my husband and I need to be in agreement. DH isn’t willing to be “against the ways of the world” entirely. He enjoys watching sports games too much, the occasional crass tv show (just to laugh), and playing fantasy/role playing card games. He doesn’t do things close to the verge of sinning and can make the distinction between reality and fantasy. I like my weird fantasy and scifi and scientific pursuits. I know in certain communities this can be off-putting.

DH hesitates trying a new church because he finds them too liberal or too conservative. We went to High Latin once and he did NOT like it It would be great to find a better church, but there aren’t a lot of choices because few Catholic churches where we live adhere to teaching and seem “protestantized.” I will keep searching.

On the other hand, I don’t think it’s charitable for me to say community only exists when you find others just like you. I believe God has been convicting me to love my neighbor more, even if they aren’t like me. The problem arises when my neighbor and I get irritated at each other for disagreeing over politics or religion.

What I read on traditional Catholic blogs and from people on the 'net is almost a different world compared to how I live. There are times where I read what people say and how they live and it’s like we are on different planets.

 

[Petaro]

There is a failing sense of any community within our modern cities and suburbia. Catholic churches are often like the bus to work, you know the faces, they often sit in the same seats, but you never talk and rush out to get the car out before the crush…
Went to a morning tea once in their fellowship group… got the tea, stood there by myself with my biscuit and left without being approached by a welcome 45 minutes later.
I found that community is found in the fellowship of common interest and vision. It can be found in the silly chatter of old friends around a whisky. It can be found in those rare moments of soul discussion with your spouse, normally about the problems of their children, luxuriating in their common values and support.
It can be found in a group of volunteers at the aged homes; shelters; hospitals; prisons where Christ can be found in those helping hands and you can feel just that closer to Him in helping those whose needs make us whole.
Community can be found in oneself praying before the Crucifix in an empty church, smug in the knowledge that the sanctuary lamp is lit and you kneel before your Christ.
It is not found in the cults of the wise pharisees whose theology stands them above others.
I pray that you find that peace which must first start with your husband and your family and then allow YOUR community to light up others.

 

[Trident_H]

Well I know what you mean. But for different reasons. At least you’ve got each other though. I envy that.

Peace.

-Trident

 

[Viki63]

As I get older it occurred to me how lonely it is. I don’t want things to be this way but my husband and I need to be in agreement. DH isn’t willing to be “against the ways of the world” entirely. He enjoys watching sports games too much, the occasional crass tv show (just to laugh), and playing fantasy/role playing card games. He doesn’t do things close to the verge of sinning and can make the distinction between reality and fantasy. I like my weird fantasy and scifi and scientific pursuits. I know in certain communities this can be off-putting. .

I don’t think you are alone. I love our Lord and the church, but too much religiosity becomes stifling. I read and write sci fi and fantasy, and I share my writings with my Bible study group. They are encouraging!

Is there a Bible study group at all in your church? You might find some like minded people there.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with sports, card games, science or genre literature. (Tolkien comes to mind.) We’re not protestants who avoid cards, dancing, and smoking as sins. (Though smoking is a really bad idea.)

It’s sad to have no friends. Why not invite some couples over for lunch, or out to a restaurant with you? If you hit it off, you may gain friends. If not, you will feel stronger because you made the effort.
My only friends are a few ladies from the Bible study, and people from work. It only takes two or three good friends to feel like you’re not alone in the world.
God bless.

.

 

[mek42]

My thought while reading this is that it would be neat if you could organize a Mass as an event at GenCon.

 

[EasterJoy]

There was a time when our parish community was decided by geographical boundaries. We got the neighbors we got, and that was our community. We didn’t have the option of shopping for our church. There was a church for us, and we went.

Sometimes, I think this model of community was a lot more like families are. You don’t get to choose your family. Your parents choose each other, but by the time you come along, the choosing is all done. In a geographical parish, you have to find this balance between being yourself and being someone that your neighbors can live with for the 60 years of your married life. You don’t pitch in and do the work and come to the celebrations because you* always* feel inclined to do it. You come because it is your family. You pitch in because it is your family. A lot of times, you get home and you’re glad you went. Well, at church you come and you pitch in and you help to celebrate because this is the local outpost of the Body of Christ. Maybe not who you would choose, but what the heck. You’re going to have to get used to being blissfully with this people for eternity, if all goes well. You may as well get started on the Purgatory of figuring out how to do that, LOL!!

Try becoming active in a parish and being yourselves. If the parish is liberal and you’re not that liberal, then you can learn to open your mouth once in a great while and say, “A billion Catholics in the world…we’re not always going to agree all of the time.” If it is traditional, hey, be yourself. If no one has the chutzpah to come out and ask you to leave, then it’s all good. If they ever do, tell them to go to…confession!

I go to a very good parish, and that is what we do. Some people avoid each other, but no one has been killed or run off the campus covered in tar and feathers. The worst that can happen is that your parish will lose some lovely people who are active parishioners because they couldn’t take you the way you are today. Shake the dust off your feet and try the next one.

 

[Casilda]

The problem arises when my neighbor and I get irritated at each other for disagreeing over politics or religion.

Before my husband converted, we belonged to a local church community that came together despite the differences, and two topics never brought up in conversation: politics or religion!

There was Sunday school and Bible study, but that is the only time they talked ‘shop’. Working the annual church fundraiser, or the youth/church garage sale, or pitchin’ in on spruce- up-the church days, no religion or politics in the conversation.

That was left for the parking lot bumper stickers

 

[Dulcie]

My husband and I were talking about this today. We feel quite isolated here. The country we live in has no Catholic tradition, and is generally very secular. We would love to live in the middle of a vigorous, lively Catholic community with beautiful liturgy, lots of social and intellectual as well as charitable life, you name it. Here the only really vibrant and devout community is the Polish one (unfortunately we don’t speak Polish). Not helped by the fact that I don’t speak the local language either, so even the monthly lecture is closed to me - but the language isn’t the main issue.

 

[GrandmaLaLa]

Hi: I live on the east coast, close to Manhattan. One of my clients lives in CA and he has the same complaint. It is hard for me to imagine what you encounter because as a lifetime Catholic, the church was never known to be the center of our social life. I observed how good many Protestant Churches were at attracting and keeping their young people interested, but not my parish. Maybe because I am older, back in the day, the Church never felt they had to attract.

So, with this tradition, I have never looked to the church per se. for friendships. I did make friends with the parents of my son’s school pals and since he went to a Catholic School we were all quite similar. So, we never talked religion. We just assumed we all felt as one.

His experience is the opposite. Religion seems to come up and as a convert to Catholicism, he feels women reject him because of this faith. This is new to me having grown up, and am still living, in what is a very liberal minded area. Once my son was raised, and I went back to lunch, I had lunch with a variety of people. Those of us who enjoyed a laugh sought one another out regardless of religion. It never came up.

For the moment, you might seek out activities that appeal to you. If you Google "Meet Ups in (where you live) there are hundreds of things people are doing all week long. Enjoy the activity at hand; chat with people who are fun; when you meet someone with whom you feel a connection, set up a dinner date. You will always have in common the activity you enjoy together. One such group in his area that I thought was hilarious was “Awesome Mediocre Athletes.” After the activity, they all go out for a beer.

This may be a back door to finding some Catholics who feel as you do.

Although, I think religion is best left for a later discussion. People today are all over the place as to how they feel about Catholicism.

So, leave it out of the equation.

Incidentally, even those of us in the field get fooled by people. Chameleons are very good at what they do.

LaLasheilph2@aol.com

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I’ve been thinking about this topic for a while because I don’t have a sense of community.

My husband and I attend Mass, but we don’t do anything at church. There are a few reasons, but the main one is we are only satisfied with what we’ve seen. The church is borderline liberal, but compared to some of the nonsense we’ve seen, it’ll do.

We don’t have friends. I vacillate between wanting friends and wanting my peace with low-drama life. I don’t want to sound like I hate people, but I’ve learned a lot of people can pull the wool over your eyes and have a lot of drama. I want to avoid it, but I also need to be a better judge of character.

When I visit a more “traditional” church, I always feel out of place. We have no children (and I have no idea if, and when we will), I’m a convert, and we’re not that crunchy. I get the sense a lot of the traditional churches have types of people, the people who have lots of children, spurn the ways of the world, and grew up Catholic.

As I get older it occurred to me how lonely it is. I don’t want things to be this way but my husband and I need to be in agreement. DH isn’t willing to be “against the ways of the world” entirely. He enjoys watching sports games too much, the occasional crass tv show (just to laugh), and playing fantasy/role playing card games. He doesn’t do things close to the verge of sinning and can make the distinction between reality and fantasy. I like my weird fantasy and scifi and scientific pursuits. I know in certain communities this can be off-putting.

DH hesitates trying a new church because he finds them too liberal or too conservative. We went to High Latin once and he did NOT like it It would be great to find a better church, but there aren’t a lot of choices because few Catholic churches where we live adhere to teaching and seem “protestantized.” I will keep searching.

On the other hand, I don’t think it’s charitable for me to say community only exists when you find others just like you. I believe God has been convicting me to love my neighbor more, even if they aren’t like me. The problem arises when my neighbor and I get irritated at each other for disagreeing over politics or religion.

What I read on traditional Catholic blogs and from people on the 'net is almost a different world compared to how I live. There are times where I read what people say and how they live and it’s like we are on different planets.

This is a fascinating topic to me. We have moved from one extreme to the other several times. Currently we are at a Parish with almost no theology but extreme “community” Our old Parish had deep orthodoxy, and absolutely NO community. I have to admit that I like the liturgical more than the communal. And I am really struggling with my own faith since moving back to the fluffy world of “community” Sure we go to our Mass, which is borderline faith destroying to me, and all our friends are there, and there is so much to volunteer for and do. We are constantly going out after Mass to a friends house, doing a youth group activity and catching up with many many “friends”

But I am dead inside spiritually now. Well, that is not true, I am angry. I am struggling. And community does not seem to be the answer, but rather the culprit.

But in our old, liturgically sound traditional parish. We were so lonely. We knew very few and made no friends (and we make friends easily) So it was a different kind of desert for us than we are experiencing now.

This is an interesting balance.

 

[spunjalebi]

It’s sad to have no friends. Why not invite some couples over for lunch, or out to a restaurant with you?
.

Most of the couples we’ve known and liked in the past have children. We like children, and aren’t bothered by a small child running around but our childlessness for most Catholics is off-putting. It’s not my choice to be childless (it’s DH’s) and I can see the odd facial expressions on people when they find out how long we’ve been married without children. If it’s not the case, they usually say they are so busy and they would rather be around people with children so their kids have others to play with.

DH recently told me he doesn’t want to open up to people anymore because they judge him poorly very quick. I’ve experienced it too, hence why I’m not pursuing friendships at this time. We are both members of meetups, but we also work full time and have to attend to things at home. Sometimes, we want to relax and have quiet time to ourselves during the week, and we’re open on weekends. Unfortunately, most people’s schedules are packed on the weekends so there’s that too.

But I am dead inside spiritually now. Well, that is not true, I am angry. I am struggling. And community does not seem to be the answer, but rather the culprit.

I am not spiritually dead, but struggling. I think my husband is starting to head down the spiritually dry path, because he’s so angry with the way life’s gone.

 

[spunjalebi]

It’s sad to have no friends. Why not invite some couples over for lunch, or out to a restaurant with you?
.

Most of the couples we’ve known and liked in the past have children. We like children, and aren’t bothered by a small child running around but our childlessness for most Catholics is off-putting. It’s not my choice to be childless (it’s DH’s) and I can see the odd facial expressions on people when they find out how long we’ve been married without children. If it’s not the case, they usually say they are so busy and they would rather be around people with children so their kids have others to play with.

DH recently told me he doesn’t want to open up to people anymore because they judge him poorly very quick. I’ve experienced it too, hence why I’m not pursuing friendships at this time. We are both members of meetups, but we also work full time and have to attend to things at home. Sometimes, we want to relax and have quiet time to ourselves during the week, and we’re open on weekends. Unfortunately, most people’s schedules are packed on the weekends so there’s that too.

But I am dead inside spiritually now. Well, that is not true, I am angry. I am struggling. And community does not seem to be the answer, but rather the culprit.

I am not spiritually dead, but struggling. I think my husband is starting to head down the spiritually dry path, because he’s so angry with the way life’s gone.

 

[iwillrisenow]

This topic is so very close to my own heart…I’m glad you brought it up, OP.

I am also a convert and have become more and more isolated since I converted. Sometimes I feel as though I’ve lost the ability to connect with people…I used to travel and meet so many different kinds of people from different backgrounds and have friends…go out (nothing wild, but you know-- dinner, dancing, clubs, drinks, etc.), join social activities, and enjoy life…then I converted. And I’ve found myself in an awkward place where I can’t run with the more liberal crowd that I’d been around for much of my life (being more arts/humanities inclined) but don’t quite fit in with the Catholics who grew up in the Church, went to all Catholic schools, come from all-Catholic families, spent most of their lives in all-Catholic social circles, etc. either.

Since I’m single, I once assumed that singlehood is a large part of why I struggle to find a place in the Church…but…then I read your post and a few others on here from married folks and you all say you are isolated too. And, OP, it sounds like both you and your husband are the types of people who need time to recharge on the weekend, away from the scrutiny and stress that often comes with being “out there”…I hear that…

Perhaps…and bear with me here…isolation and loneliness are invitations from God…not necessarily to be more social, because you can be surrounded by people and still feel isolated…but invitations to acknowledge that the only true communion is in Him. Let’s face it: for many of us, friendships come and go…sometimes we’re more connected with others, other times (especially after major life transitions such as a death in the family, job loss, move, etc.) we’re quite isolated. And relying on anyone other than God for welcoming and acceptance may divert us from opportunities to encounter Him. I’m praying on/working through this a lot myself…but I honestly believe that if you’re meant to have more people in your life, it wouldn’t feel like such a burden. Maybe this is a desert period for you as a married couple to focus on one another and to build up your relationship with God? Maybe He wants to bless you just as you are right now…and when the time comes for new friendships, you’ll know and you’ll be ready. Do either of you have a spiritual director? Sharing what you’ve shared here with one might be a worthwhile next step.

 

[Xantippe]

Most of the couples we’ve known and liked in the past have children. We like children, and aren’t bothered by a small child running around but our childlessness for most Catholics is off-putting. It’s not my choice to be childless (it’s DH’s) and I can see the odd facial expressions on people when they find out how long we’ve been married without children. If it’s not the case, they usually say they are so busy and they would rather be around people with children so their kids have others to play with.

DH recently told me he doesn’t want to open up to people anymore because they judge him poorly very quick. I’ve experienced it too, hence why I’m not pursuing friendships at this time. We are both members of meetups, but we also work full time and have to attend to things at home. Sometimes, we want to relax and have quiet time to ourselves during the week, and we’re open on weekends. Unfortunately, most people’s schedules are packed on the weekends so there’s that too.

I am not spiritually dead, but struggling. I think my husband is starting to head down the spiritually dry path, because he’s so angry with the way life’s gone.

People with kids that won’t socialize with people that don’t have kids are dumb. At some point, we’re all going to have to learn to socialize without using our kids as a crutch, so now is a good time to start. New parents can be especially bad about only wanting to hang out with new parents with kids exactly the same age, but fortunately people usually get over that.

That said, there are some ways to make your invitations more palatable to families. It’s possible that people are envisioning being invited to your perfect DINK house and spending a couple hours trying to get their kids to eat DINK food and protecting your fragile DINK knick knacks and antiques from their children. That’s an unfair but not unrealistic assumption, but it may contribute to family’s lack of eagerness to accept invitations from a married couple with no kids.

Here are some suggestions for things to do with families if you yourself don’t have kids:

–a zoo trip (works for all ages)
–any sort of social event that involves a lot of walking and talking and eating fair type food (we have a yearly craft fair that would be very fun)
–mini-golf (haven’t done it with kids–would like to)
–a farm visit (we have a local “intentional community”/cult that has a big model farm with cafe and various craft stores)
–berry picking/apple picking/etc.
–beach trip
–cookie baking
–holiday cookie house making (a tradition at our house–so much sugar! so much fun! we use wafer cookies for walls, frosting mortar, and oreos for roofing)
–marzipan dying and molding (again, so much sugar! so much fun!)
–cupcake decorating
–sushi making (a friend has been thinking of inviting my kids over to learn to make sushi–my kids LOVE sushi)
–board game nights (my two older kids go play at an adult board game night at friends with my husband)
–soft pretzel making
–apple dumpling making

Basically–casual, fun, not too expensive, some form of moderate activity (including just walking around looking at things) or creative activity, casual food. Some families will find the more sugary options horrifying, but it is a nice option. My daughter (who has done a cake decorating class) recently had a playdate where she was teaching a buddy how to decorate cupcakes. It was a great playdate.

 

[Trident_H]

I think all of us that don’t have a community to hang out with in real-life should just meet here once a week. In this thread. We’ll be buddies yet!

Peace.

-Trident

 

[EasterJoy]

Before my husband converted, we belonged to a local church community that came together despite the differences, and two topics never brought up in conversation: politics or religion!

There was Sunday school and Bible study, but that is the only time they talked ‘shop’. Working the annual church fundraiser, or the youth/church garage sale, or pitchin’ in on spruce- up-the church days, no religion or politics in the conversation.

That was left for the parking lot bumper stickers

Do you find that the nucleus of certain committees tends to results in people with particular opinion patterns falling in with certain committees? For instance, the social justice committee has one political group, the Right to Life committee has another, the centering prayer group has this one, the Rosary group has that one, and so on?

Really, though, extended families sort of do the same thing. The ones who hunt together, the ones who go to music concerts together, the ones with children in sports, and so on. It isn’t exclusive so much as gathering around commonalities into smaller communities. (Which is to say I am not talking about cliques.)

 

[Kal2012]

I’m working on building one.

We moved to a new area and a new parish, so I’m glad that school has started so we can meet more of our neighbors.

I still have parts of other communities in “my circle”, but I’d like a more local community.

In the end, making friends as an adult is a lot harder than when you are a kid.

 

[pensmama87]

People with kids that won’t socialize with people that don’t have kids are dumb. At some point, we’re all going to have to learn to socialize without using our kids as a crutch, so now is a good time to start. New parents can be especially bad about only wanting to hang out with new parents with kids exactly the same age, but fortunately people usually get over that.

Well, to be fair, though I’m talking about a younger group of people - DH and I pretty much only hang out with other adults with young children because they’re the only ones who understand that no, really, we will be up by 7am even if it’s the weekend.

We do love getting to hang out with friends who don’t have children and don’t insist on every event being child-friendly. There’s just the reality of hiring a sitter or figuring out a way to amuse the children at the event, which means we end up saying “no” more often than we’d like to. But it really isn’t meant as a snub at the hosts, and if we can we will try and host something for those folks to show them that we do want to spend time with them.

I found that we really felt like we belonged to our parish when we finally started doing stuff. My husband and I are both involved in one ministry and then we each help out with one other. None have serious time commitments, but we get to connect with people and we know the priests and the parish staff (which is a big deal in a large parish). We feel very “at home” now.

Sometimes I find it’s very meaningful just to be able to say “hi” to people you recognize every week at Mass, even if you haven’t formally introduced yourself. And then when you run into them at something, you’ve got a small connection already which makes it much less awkward. One very nice lady who tends to sit near us at Mass and is always saying nice things about our sons (whether or not they deserve it) has the Adoration hour after me, and while we don’t engage in much small talk because of the nature of what we’re doing, it’s nice to have a familiar face every week.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

People with kids that won’t socialize with people that don’t have kids are dumb. At some point, we’re all going to have to learn to socialize without using our kids as a crutch, so now is a good time to start. New parents can be especially bad about only wanting to hang out with new parents with kids exactly the same age, but fortunately people usually get over that.

That said, there are some ways to make your invitations more palatable to families. It’s possible that people are envisioning being invited to your perfect DINK house and spending a couple hours trying to get their kids to eat DINK food and protecting your fragile DINK knick knacks and antiques from their children. That’s an unfair but not unrealistic assumption, but it may contribute to family’s lack of eagerness to accept invitations from a married couple with no kids.

Here are some suggestions for things to do with families if you yourself don’t have kids:

–a zoo trip (works for all ages)
–any sort of social event that involves a lot of walking and talking and eating fair type food (we have a yearly craft fair that would be very fun)
–mini-golf (haven’t done it with kids–would like to)
–a farm visit (we have a local “intentional community”/cult that has a big model farm with cafe and various craft stores)
–berry picking/apple picking/etc.
–beach trip
–cookie baking
–holiday cookie house making (a tradition at our house–so much sugar! so much fun! we use wafer cookies for walls, frosting mortar, and oreos for roofing)
–marzipan dying and molding (again, so much sugar! so much fun!)
–cupcake decorating
–sushi making (a friend has been thinking of inviting my kids over to learn to make sushi–my kids LOVE sushi)
–board game nights (my two older kids go play at an adult board game night at friends with my husband)
–soft pretzel making
–apple dumpling making

Basically–casual, fun, not too expensive, some form of moderate activity (including just walking around looking at things) or creative activity, casual food. Some families will find the more sugary options horrifying, but it is a nice option. My daughter (who has done a cake decorating class) recently had a playdate where she was teaching a buddy how to decorate cupcakes. It was a great playdate.

Those are great ideas!
We have several friends with no kids who are young couples. We absolutely LOVE hanging out with them. In many ways they are easier to hang with than those with kids. Nobody complains about what time little johnny goes to bed, or that little Jane is allergic to a certain blueberry grown in a certain square mile of dirt and then is at the same factory as the desert I brought over…

But the flip side is that we usually have to hear about how their cat or dog is just like our kids…

Now, the more kids you have the harder it is to do things with non kid people. Everywhere we go we have five kids. And yes, my kids are very well behaved and can even sit for hours quietly coloring or something like that, but it is still 5 KIDS! So we have to understand that not every non child couple wants our (tame) brand of circus over at their house or in their favorite restaurant. We are happy to host events, games, football, etc. But when it comes down to it, once you have several kids, it becomes easier to socialize with others who understand the issues involved. Take tonight for example. Our good friends just canceled a football party. They have six kids and are not feeling too well and are stressed today. Super busy. I know how they feel and have no problem moving the party from their house to mine. And they can go to bed early and be ready for tomorrow. They are dear close friends and they have no problem knowing we completely understand. Where single or no kid friends may not understand.

 

[AllieT]

Becoming ushers gave my husband and I an opportunity to get to know people in a natural, non-pressure way. It’s led us to join other groups in Church, through becoming more known to others, but also by making an appointment with our Pastor to ask him where we might fit in. We don’t have children, unfortunately, but the things we do are primarily with the adults anyway. We are fortunate that we are in an authentic, traditional Catholic Church with no straying on social issues, so that helps. Maybe if you find a group to join, you may find others you have more in common with. It’s hard to tell who’s who when you attend weekly Mass - nothing wrong with that, but if you want to feel more of a sense of belonging, I think it’s important to volunteer somewhere in the parish. If possible, it’s great to attend some daily Masses, too - often many of the people who attend are more involved and by going, you may become more familiar to them. Sorry to hear your Church isn’t quite right for you, but you may not be alone. As for the possible drama, just don’t get sucked in, lol…