"Do you have a history of depression or anxiety?"

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Hello! First of all, I commend you for your faithfulness to your medication regime. It is very difficult, I’m sure, to be afflicted with severe depression. I agree with the first advice you received. Although the condition is in control now, I don’t think that Religious life lived in a Community setting is conducive to your severe chronic depression. Environment has a lot to do to keep a condition like that under control. Fortunately, Pope John Paul II in his encyclical “Vita Consecrata” brought back into our consciousness the different types of religious consecration lifestyle one may be called to. In the Carmelite tradition, one can be a “beata” or basically consecrated virgin living alone and following the Rule of St. Albert. You may want to pursue that. You can always take a private vow without waiting for the ceremony and follow the Carmelite Rule according to your present state. Do you have a spiritual director?
Yes, Sister Helena, I have a spiritual director, but I don’t see him as often as I should (transportation trouble – I don’t know how to drive) :o The Lay Carmelite (T.O.Carm.) statutes state that three years after a Lay Carmelite is permanently professed, he or she may take private vows of chastity (according to his or her state in life) and obedience (to the Rule of St. Albert). However, I am only temporarily professed: my permanent profession is scheduled for (God willing) in 2011. That means that I would have to wait until 2014 to take the private vows. I suspect that if ever (God willing) I become a consecrated virgin, it would be after 2014 as well.

I have read a little bit about beatas in colonial Latin America (my focus in my Latin American Studies minor as an undergrad and major in grad school was 20th-century Brazilian literature and history, but the study of Latin American women’s history intrigues me). From what I recall, they could be quite influential in their communities. Around them, other women would be attracted to their lifestyle and the seeds of a future convent or hospital could form. Some beatas could be loose cannons and were investigated by the Inquisition, but most were good and holy women who regularly attended Mass, supported themselves and did good works such as teach catechism or nurse the sick. I know that Blessed Josefa Naval Girbes, a 19th-century Spanish Secular Carmelite, was a beata. Do you know of any other saintly beatas who lived during or after the Counter-Reformation?

Many thanks! 👍
 
When the Orders stop treating people with depression as if they raped a small child, saying, “Please come back in 5 years,” as if they’re talking to a dog with the mange, it really gets me to thinking if the Orders aren’t just some elitist country club rather than a brotherhood and sisterhood where “mothers and sons” (to use the eremetical language of St. Francis) co-exist together.
Unfortunately, some orders are exactly that, i.e., elitist country clubs.

I live in a small formation community. Of the four priests who live in or have lived in the house over the last year, here is how they break down, psychologically:

Fr. A – takes no prescription medications, but suffers from occasional insomnia, which he sometimes treats with OTC stuff. For the most part he treats the condition with prayer and exercise. He is a truly excellent priest.

Fr. B – takes no medications. He is narcissistic, conniving, ocassionally downright cruel. He is one of the worst priests I’ve ever met.

Fr. C – takes medication for a condition generally considered to be much worse than depression. He is a kind, gentle priest who willingly hears confessions at 5:30 AM if that is the time someone shows up needing Jesus.

Fr. D – takes meds for (undiagnosed) PTSD, (my guess). The meds keep him more or less under control and make him much easier to live with. Nonetheless, he is a pretty mediocre priest, who is best described as a lukewarm pharisee, i.e., he would be a hardcore pharisee, but that would take too much effort.

The point?

Several:

[1] We are all broken. You may considered to be the most wonderful person in your home town, and I may be considered to be the most wonderful person in mine, but that does not mean that we will enjoy living together.

[2] No one ever said that religious life is supposed to be continually fun. Rewarding, yes, it is rewarding, in ways, IMHO, that secular life never can be. But it is not supposed to be Disneyland.

[3] God does not ask that we succeed, only that we try and, when we fail, we apologize. In other words, it does not matter, from His point of view, whether we enjoy living together or not. The important thing is that we keep on trying to be loving toward one another, no matter how much our natures clash.

SUMMARY:

It is possible that better psychological screening would have weeded out Fr. B and Fr. D, but the problem with both of them is not medication, the lack thereof, or the state of their psyches. The problem with both of them is a lack of conversion to Jesus Christ.

On the other hand, Fr. A sometimes hears the Lord speaking directly to him in prayer. I mean speaking, as in with words, in a voice that neither belongs to nor originates within, Fr. A. Tighter psychological screening probably would have eliminated him from the seminary a long time ago – along with St. Padre Pio, St. Francis, and a host of others – and our province would be deprived of its best priest.

Tighter psychological screening would certainly have eliminated Fr. C. from consideration, and then two tormented souls who rely on him for very early morning confession at least once each per week, would have no one to turn to.

The problem with many (most) religious orders (and dioceses, for that matter) today is that they “screen” candidates based on whether they, (or their shrink), thinks that it would be enjoyable to live with a particular person. They all too often fail to ask the questions which really count, such as:

– Do you truly love Jesus Christ?

– Are you ready to work on improving your relationship with the Lord, in the hope of becoming ever more and more like Him, through prayer, mortification, etc?

– Do you accept your sinful nature, and your need for constant, continual conversion?

– Regardless of your psycho-biology, are you willing to try to be loving to those around you, and to apologize, from the heart, when you fail at this most important task?

– Regardless of your physical or psychological condition(s), are you willing to work as hard as you are able both to live the life envisioned by our founder as well as to contribute as much labor, (physical, emotional, intellectual), to the community as your capacities allow?
 
Is this the real reason behind the decline of women entering the Religious life? In this world just about everyone one I have met has some type of phycological issue. I just didn’t know they screened women or men for that matter for enterning. I thought you could go and find if it were for you (discernment) and that’s all that mattered.

Just curious…

God Bless!
Vickinator:

Most Orders consider “Psychological Testing” to be part of the “Discernment Process”. MINOR Psychological Problems shouldn’t be a bar to admittance as long as the applicant’s personality is basically compatible with that of the Order and it’s Mission.

What’s hurting Vocations in our country is a combination of our culture of SELF-CENTEREDNESS & IMMEDIATE SELF-GRATIFICATION coupled with the fact that many who feel called are discourages by their families, friends and members of their parishes. In many cases, those who should be encouraging the Vocations of those who feel called, their Priests, Religious Instructors, Deacons and even Religious Brothers and Sisters, spend their time and energy discouraging prospective Priests, Brothers and Sisters from pursuing their vocations to the Sacred Priesthood or to the Religious Life.

This is a sad commentary on the state of the Church today.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
 
Unfortunately, some orders are exactly that, i.e., elitist country clubs.

I live in a small formation community. Of the four priests who live in or have lived in the house over the last year, here is how they break down, psychologically:

Fr. A – takes no prescription medications, but suffers from occasional insomnia, which he sometimes treats with OTC stuff. For the most part he treats the condition with prayer and exercise. He is a truly excellent priest.

Fr. B – takes no medications. He is narcissistic, conniving, ocassionally downright cruel. He is one of the worst priests I’ve ever met.

Fr. C – takes medication for a condition generally considered to be much worse than depression. He is a kind, gentle priest who willingly hears confessions at 5:30 AM if that is the time someone shows up needing Jesus.

Fr. D – takes meds for (undiagnosed) PTSD, (my guess). The meds keep him more or less under control and make him much easier to live with. Nonetheless, he is a pretty mediocre priest, who is best described as a lukewarm pharisee, i.e., he would be a hardcore pharisee, but that would take too much effort.

The point?

Several:

[1] We are all broken. You may considered to be the most wonderful person in your home town, and I may be considered to be the most wonderful person in mine, but that does not mean that we will enjoy living together.

[2] No one ever said that religious life is supposed to be continually fun. Rewarding, yes, it is rewarding, in ways, IMHO, that secular life never can be. But it is not supposed to be Disneyland.

[3] God does not ask that we succeed, only that we try and, when we fail, we apologize. In other words, it does not matter, from His point of view, whether we enjoy living together or not. The important thing is that we keep on trying to be loving toward one another, no matter how much our natures clash.

SUMMARY:

It is possible that better psychological screening would have weeded out Fr. B and Fr. D, but the problem with both of them is not medication, the lack thereof, or the state of their psyches. The problem with both of them is a lack of conversion to Jesus Christ.

On the other hand, Fr. A sometimes hears the Lord speaking directly to him in prayer. I mean speaking, as in with words, in a voice that neither belongs to nor originates within, Fr. A. Tighter psychological screening probably would have eliminated him from the seminary a long time ago – along with St. Padre Pio, St. Francis, and a host of others – and our province would be deprived of its best priest.

Tighter psychological screening would certainly have eliminated Fr. C. from consideration, and then two tormented souls who rely on him for very early morning confession at least once each per week, would have no one to turn to.

The problem with many (most) religious orders (and dioceses, for that matter) today is that they “screen” candidates based on whether they, (or their shrink), thinks that it would be enjoyable to live with a particular person. They all too often fail to ask the questions which really count, such as:

– Do you truly love Jesus Christ?

– Are you ready to work on improving your relationship with the Lord, in the hope of becoming ever more and more like Him, through prayer, mortification, etc?

– Do you accept your sinful nature, and your need for constant, continual conversion?

– Regardless of your psycho-biology, are you willing to try to be loving to those around you, and to apologize, from the heart, when you fail at this most important task?

– Regardless of your physical or psychological condition(s), are you willing to work as hard as you are able both to live the life envisioned by our founder as well as to contribute as much labor, (physical, emotional, intellectual), to the community as your capacities allow?
Augie Boo:

I’ve known all 4 of the priests, and If I’m ever privileged to be ordained, I’d be overjoyed if I could be described as you’ve described Fr. C (Medication for my spine).

May you be a good and loving priest who serves the Lord with his whole heart.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
 
I’ve heard one Religious tell me that there are a lot of things that orders in the past would have turned a blind eye to as ‘eccentricities’ (“Oh, Sr Margaret will get upset and lock herself in her cell crying every year in November when the nights get longer, but ho hum, that’s just how she is”) that they can no longer ignore, because the numbers of religious are so small, they can’t afford to be carrying anyone who’s not 100% available for the apostolate. Sad, but that’s how it is.
 
… they can’t afford to be carrying anyone who’s not 100% available for the apostolate. Sad, but that’s how it is.
I know you don’t mean this the way it’s written but Religious Orders are not utilitarian or not only concerned of carrying out the apostolate. It just does not exist to have the work done. It is a community of people living so close together that the presence of a disruptive personality because of an illness trickles into everybody’s lives. It is not fair to the Sister herself who has to go through a lifestyle and structure which are not helpful to her. As much as people idealizes religious life so much, it is still bound to this earth and are faced with earthly realities!
 
I know you don’t mean this the way it’s written but Religious Orders are not utilitarian or not only concerned of carrying out the apostolate. It just does not exist to have the work done. It is a community of people living so close together that the presence of a disruptive personality because of an illness trickles into everybody’s lives. It is not fair to the Sister herself who has to go through a lifestyle and structure which are not helpful to her. As much as people idealizes religious life so much, it is still bound to this earth and are faced with earthly realities!
Sister Helena,
As someone who has worked with vocations in my community…(in the 80’s) I can only say … well said. Community life has many stresses (yes many blessings also). If you are in an active community or a cloister, the community does need to make sure that the person entering is so far as can be determined, going to be able to fit in both spiritually and psychologically. As you say exceptions are made. One key some may have missed is this:


**
It is a community of people living so close together that the presence of a disruptive personality because of an illness trickles into everybody’s lives. It is not fair to the Sister herself who has to go through a lifestyle and structure which are not helpful to her. As much as people idealizes religious life so much, it is still bound to this earth and are faced with earthly realities!
**

*Communities are not trying to be elitist far from it… but they do need to make sure that the person entering will both fit in with the existing community and also the community will be a fit for the person.

I would encourage anyone with any history of depression or anxiety to keep searching… as Sr Helena posted earlier… depending on the community or the severity… exceptions are made. Blessings*
 
I had thought to come here in order to rant about how most Orders won’t allow you join if you have a history of depression or anxiety, but I won’t - regardless, let me just say that God does call people to ordained ministry and religious life who have a history of depression and anxiety. When the Orders accept this, and accept that their friars, brothers and sisters are capable of great deeds in spite of needing to take a Zoloft on Tuesdays and Fridays, then the laborers in the vineyard might be greater. When the Orders stop treating people with depression as if they raped a small child, saying, “Please come back in 5 years,” as if they’re talking to a dog with the mange, it really gets me to thinking if the Orders aren’t just some elitist country club rather than a brotherhood and sisterhood where “mothers and sons” (to use the eremetical language of St. Francis) co-exist together.

Slight rant…
I’ve got brothers who suffer from mental illness. I personally wouldn’t advise entering a closed convent or monastery if you suffer from depression as I can imagine the environment being depressing myself. However an open order might be beneficial. The priesthood is very hard here and a large toll as they are very short-staffed so you might be better off as a second priest in a larger parish or working directly within the diocesan centre. Good luck.
 
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