Do you have good lead singers at Mass?

[ConstantLearner]

We have a wonderful pianist. Excellent.

Several of our choir members, male and female, have excellent voices, and yes, we have a good soloist. It is me! I have studied opera formally, so I am trained. I sing with the choir at Sunday Mass, on holidays, at weddings, and at funerals. At funerals, my most requested song is “Going Home.” I don’t have a “big” voice like a Broadway singer. I’m a light lyric soprano, who sang coloratura in opera. When I was young - a teenager - I belonged to a choir in which all were sopranos. We were known all over California as “the angel choir.” We didn’t always act like angels, but we had the voices. Mine never changed. In fact, it got higher.

 

[pnewton]

If I had to choose a devout Catholic with a horrid voice to sing, or a professional singer who only does it for the money, I would choose the devout Catholic every time.

That is a rather interesting dichotomy. It may surprise you that some who sing very well are also devout Catholics, even some the are paid. You have a point about the first church. Surely those who live in a voluntary, Christian, communist-style enclave shouldn’t be paid, just as it was in the first Church, where every body that wanted brought all they had and everything was distributed according to need.

Interestingly enough, my priest insists on it. I mean, one can give it back, but he insists. The idea is that volunteers are less reliable than someone who is paid. After about twenty years as a Catholic and three decades working before that, he has a point.

 

[angelic06]

I still feel it’s wrong to be paying singers for Mass. Singing at Mass is different from a painter or a roofer. The roofer isn’t roofing as part of the Liturgical assembly.

If I had to choose a devout Catholic with a horrid voice to sing, or a professional singer who only does it for the money, I would choose the devout Catholic every time.

I don’t think any argument will change my mind, sorry. I understand your arguments - but every fiber of my being cries out “wrong!” when I think of someone being paid to do something for the Holy Mass - ESPECIALLY if they wouldn’t be doing it at all if the Almighty Dollar were not involved (Mammon anyone?)

Would you need to be paid to stand by the Cross of Christ in the 1st century? How much to sing at his funeral? 30 shekels?

“A professional singer who does it only for money.”

You are assuming that s/he “only” does it for money. Most paid singers I know of, chiefly college students, do it for God’s service; however, they still need the money to live on.

By your argument, the priest should not be paid either. And yet, speaking for myself, I most willingly offer stipends to the priests to offer Masses for my intentions, on behalf of the living and the dead.

 

[Allegra]

I’ve sung for a living and I have to say, my overhead was minimal. Most of our parish’s singers are volunteers. Our music director is a paid position, but he has to plan and organize all the music and musicians for the different Masses as well as play and he directs the choir and bell choir.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I’ve sung for a living and I have to say, my overhead was minimal. Most of our parish’s singers are volunteers. Our music director is a paid position, but he has to plan and organize all the music and musicians for the different Masses as well as play and he directs the choir and bell choir.

Maybe you didn’t take it as seriously as the professional musicians in my life. Most I know will do vocal tune-ups with a professional a few times a year. Then again they are serious performers…not just weekend voulenteers.

 

[Allegra]

I feel like it’s reasonable for a cantor to be expected to volunteer to show up and sing one week
end Mass, since we are presuming he or she is Catholic and is expected to be there anyway. It’s only when extra rehearsing beyond a half hour before Mass is required, or he or she is being asked to sing multiple Masses per weekend that it’s reasonable to ask for compensation.

 

[Allegra]

Vocal tuneups? What is that supposed to mean? They have to get scoped several times a year? Then they have lousy technique! Believe me, I take my vocal care very seriously.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Vocal tuneups? What is that supposed to mean? They have to get scoped several times a year? Then they have lousy technique! Believe me, I take my vocal care very seriously.

No, they go to a professional and have someone else hear them and help them refine pitch often suggest ways to build nuanced vocalizations into whatever performance they are working on. Not everyone is gifted with a perfect and unwavering pitch.

 

[pnewton]

I’ve sung for a living and I have to say, my overhead was minimal.

Mine is as well, but then we are only give an per-Mass stipend. In addition to three instruments, I have bought several chord, mikes and a bunch of music over the years.

 

[Allegra]

True. I’ve bought keyboards and guitars over the years. Still, I have a hard time counting that as overhead, since would probably have bought them even if I’d never done a paid gig in my life. Plus, even if I do count those, it wouldn’t add up to a lot over many years.

 

[Allegra]

Must be my “privilege” talking. But I don’t know a single professional vocalist that sees a professional about pitch. I know some who have had to deal with the results of poor technique and seen a medical specialist for that reason, hopefully temporarily, but that’s generally covered by health insurance. Others may hire a vocal coach, but I assure you they aren’t working on “wavering pitch” nor are they using this service for a few hymns and a responsorial psalm. They’re studying and perfecting their vocal technique in order to sing extremely demanding vocal parts in operatic areas that can actually do permanent damage to their vocal folds is they don’t use proper technique. None of this is necessary for normal church singing.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Must be my “privilege” talking. But I don’t know a single professional vocalist that sees a professional about pitch. I know some who have had to deal with the results of poor technique and seen a medical specialist for that reason, hopefully temporarily, but that’s generally covered by health insurance. Others may hire a vocal coach, but I assure you they aren’t working on “wavering pitch” nor are they using this service for a few hymns and a responsorial psalm. They’re studying and perfecting their vocal technique in order to sing extremely demanding vocal parts in operatic areas that can actually do permanent damage to their vocal folds is they don’t use proper technique. None of this is necessary for normal church singing.

But it IS part of the life of a professional musician. You are addressing exactly what my friend does–operatic work. She gets paid to do it professionally. She also gets paid to sing at Mass. Her being able to support herself as a vocalist depends on her getting gigs in addition to Mass. This means that she has to keep her voice in top shape.

People who are not professional musicians don’t have to worry about things like vocal injuries. They go to work with a squeak and no one is going to care.

Professional musicians really have two options–to teach or perform.

Again, if the church truly valued musicians they would be compensated at a living wage and not need to seek out other venues to be paid.

 

[babochka]

The job of Cantor in the Byzantine Rite is much more involved than leaving the congregation in 4 songs and a psalm. They are responsible for leading the congregation in singing/chanting the for the entire liturgy, knowing the changeable parts and when to use temple, knowing 8 tones. They also need to know other liturgies, such as Vespers and Matins.

We have a cantor who has had professional training as a singer and specifically as a cantor, but was a teacher by profession. He, is an ordained cantor and has served in this role since I was a child. I’m approaching 49, so that’s a very long time. He’s starting to slow down and get tired and another parishioner is taking over once or twice a month. She’s still learning, but is doing an excellent job. She doesn’t have professional training and her voice isn’t as strong as his, but it’s coming along.

Because the role of Cantor is so critical in the Byzantine Divine Liturgy, the Eparchies the US offer excellent training resources, both online and in-person, through the Metropolitan Cantor Institute. MCI - Cantor Institute programs

 

[angelic06]

The job of Cantor in the Byzantine Rite is much more involved than leaving the congregation in 4 songs and a psalm. They are responsible for leading the congregation in singing/chanting the for the entire liturgy, knowing the changeable parts and when to use temple, knowing 8 tones. They also need to know other liturgies, such as Vespers and Matins.

We have a cantor who has had professional training as a singer and specifically as a cantor, but was a teacher by profession. He, is an ordained cantor and has served in this role since I was a child. I’m approaching 49, so that’s a very long time. He’s starting to slow down and get tired and another parishioner is taking over once or twice a month. She’s still learning, but is doing an excellent job. She doesn’t have professional training and her voice isn’t as strong as his, but it’s coming along.

Because the role of Cantor is so critical in the Byzantine Divine Liturgy, the Eparchies the US offer excellent training resources, both online and in-person, through the Metropolitan Cantor Institute. MCI - Cantor Institute programs

While I am a canonical Latin, I attend the Byzantine community frequently and have looked into the Metropolitan Cantor Institute.

 

[babochka]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

If you went to a professional voice trainer and dropped a few grand and worked on your voice over a few years you likely could sing like those professionals I mentioned.

If you knew me, you wouldn’t say that.

My voice is truly cacaphonic.

I sing at Mass because I’m singing to God and I have no shame - but trust me, it’s not nice.

You sound like my husband. My voice is okay. If I sing softly and I’m next to somebody who has a strong voice and on key, I can sing a little bit. However, if I cannot hope to sing at all if I’m sitting next to my husband. Unfortunately, he seems blissfully unaware that he can’t sing well and he often makes up words if he doesn’t know the word for sure. So I sit at one end of our kids and he sits at the other. We both try to sing.

 

[pnewton]

True. I’ve bought keyboards and guitars over the years. Still, I have a hard time counting that as overhead, since would probably have bought them even if I’d never done a paid gig in my life.

I am in a different situation, that would make it difficult to buy expensive stuff for my own enjoyment, if I wasn’t getting something at least.

I am married.

 

[Spyridon]

like it’s reasonable for a cantor to be expected to volunteer to show up and sing one week

end Mass, since we are presuming he or she is Catholic and is expected to be there anyway. It’s only when extra rehearsing beyond a half hour before Mass is required, or he or she is being asked to sing multiple Masses per weekend that it’s reasonable to ask for compensation

I agree fully with that.

My issue is not so much with the idea of being paid in and of itself…

My issue is with, for example, say a professional singer getting asked to just do one weekend Mass - even the Mass he was going to be attending to fulfill his obligation anyway - yet refusing to do it if he won’t be paid.

What I fear is the mere appearance of simony - making it seem like the Liturgy is some sort of musical performance instead of a service to God.

 

[Gertabelle]

The idea is that volunteers are less reliable than someone who is paid. After about twenty years as a Catholic and three decades working before that, he has a point.

This is absolutely the truth!

It’s all well and good to ask people to give of their time and talent without compensation. Our lectors, EMHCs, and altar servers do this all the time.

So why should a musician receive money for providing music for mass?

As an organist, I can tell you that I am expected to be at the 11:00am mass every single Sunday. I have arranged vacations so that I’ll only be gone for one Sunday. And I can’t tell you how many times I would much rather go to some other mass than the one in which I am expected to play the organ. But when mass starts, there I am at that organ bench.

This is not just a once a month gig. This is not being part of a group (like altar servers) where one gap can be easily filled by the sacristan going into the congregation before mass and grabbing someone who’s not on the schedule that day but can fill in.

And the pool of organists and singers at my parish is a tiny fraction of the number of people who are trained lectors, EMHCs, and altar servers.

We haven’t had an organist or pianist at our Saturday vigil mass for over a year because no one will volunteer. We have a couple thousand families in our parish, but no one is willing to chain themselves to that one mass like those of us who play on Sunday mornings.

Maybe some parishes have a pool of instrumentalists and cantors so that people are only obligated to lead music once a month. But in our parish, that is not the case.

Paying people even a tiny stipend acknowledges the expectation and the appreciation of the commitment to be there every Sunday, with special music for Christmas, Holy Week, and Easter.

 

[Spyridon]

Again, if the church truly valued musicians they would be compensated at a living wage and not need to seek out other venues to be paid.

In your opinion, on a purely hypothetical level, would it be a fair wage to pay a professional cantor $100 for a 1.5 hour long Sunday Mass?

 

[Gertabelle]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

Again, if the church truly valued musicians they would be compensated at a living wage and not need to seek out other venues to be paid.

In your opinion, on a purely hypothetical level, would it be a fair wage to pay a professional cantor $100 for a 1.5 hour long Sunday Mass?

My friend is the music director at a parish about 20 miles from here in a low-income area. But somehow they manage to pay their organist and cantor $50 each for every mass. When she needed a replacement for a Saturday vigil mass, that extra $50 was definitely a motivator to say “yes” to the request.