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Spyridon
Guest
I can definitely support the position you illustrated in this post.
There’s a difference between fairness in compensation and greedy gain. I think you’ve illustrated something advocating fair compensation.
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There’s a difference between fairness in compensation and greedy gain. I think you’ve illustrated something advocating fair compensation.
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pnewton
Guest
LOL, we just got bumped from 35 to 40, that is for doing everything: playing, cantoring, and singing the Psalm. Also, it is not like we do not also volunteer. I do not get anything for funerals or children choirs, and will sometimes sign over the month’s check to some organization or the Church (we all declined for 2017 from Harvey to the end of the year, e.g.) Yet just the fact that it goes to my hand first is motivation not to ever miss without serious reason, like one time I was sick and once again when my brother passed away. I would like to think I would be just as dedicated if it was volunteer, but that is a question I do not know the answer to. The point is not to brag, but to dispel some of the myth and stereotyping going on.
Ug, and don’t get me started on Holy Week. All the money in the world would not motivate me for that. Yet I will serve my priest and the Church. At least I have someone else organizing the Gospel for Good Friday!
Ug, and don’t get me started on Holy Week. All the money in the world would not motivate me for that. Yet I will serve my priest and the Church. At least I have someone else organizing the Gospel for Good Friday!
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Spyridon
Guest
Wow.
If they were gonna give a stipend I’d expect it to be at least $50…
So basically the money they give you is enough to cover the cost of gas and buy lunch afterwards…
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ConstantLearner
Guest
Do you believe devout Catholic teachers should not be paid? Some people, even devout Catholics, make their living by singing.
Would you rather have a devout Catholic try to educate your children even though he or she may be terrible at his or her job, or would you rather have an excellent teacher, who is Protestant or Jewi or even atheist?
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SacredHeartBassist
Guest
That’s just classist of you. Artists and singers that are worth their salt need to make money too. And usually the ones that get paid instruct the rest of the choir. There’s a lot of planning involved in deciding what to sing each Sunday. It’s not easy and it’s more than just singing
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
Yes. One of my family members only volunteers because the church hired a professional musician who is very talented and well paid. The paid person is a great instructor and builds confidence in those who volunteer. My family member has learned a TON from him. Others do much the same. If the church hired an amateur or relied on volunteers my family member would likely not play/sing because he just dosn’t have the talent.
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Spyridon
Guest
Non sequitur.
I clearly indicated I was speaking of roles in the Liturgy, not speaking in general.
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pnewton
Guest
Also, you clarified your position to a reasonable, tempered stance, in my opinion.
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Aulef
Guest
Yes, we do.
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Spyridon
Guest
Yeah my original post was opinionated and a bit of a knee-jerk comment…
Anyone reading it should read the rest of the statements I made afterward for proper context.
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ConstantLearner
Guest
For some people, singing is their life’s work, so it’s clearly not a non sequitur.
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ConstantLearner
Guest
Yes, you’re right. In addition, there are the years of training - and paid for lessons, in most cases - that go into the making of a good musician, instrumental or vocal.
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MD1
Guest
My parish is blessed to have some very talented singers. 
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Catherinabird
Guest
Plus even the best singers pick up bad habits they might not notice.
I had formal lessons for years and now that I don’t I’m certain some old and new habits have cropped up. It’s smart to take some lessons time to time to get fresh ears on your technique and suggestions for improvement. Even the best singers DO have pitch problems. They might be minuscule, but they do occur. Sometimes the singer hears it themselves but can’t figure out how to fix it. A teacher can point out where this is occurring and offer methods that will strengthen pitch.
Some professionals and amateurs do take ongoing lessons. These are expensive. My teacher was $55 an hour and she was cheap for the area. Most classical training is closer to $75-100 an hour, or more. If you go once a week it adds up! So those who want to make singing their profession do hope to be paid as a cantor. I know several professional singers who cantor as part of their career. Usually they are also teaching, singing here and there for events, preforming in theatre, opera, or classical concerts, and often they have a “side job I have to also do to make enough to survive”.
As for me, this is not my career, I’m just happy to cantor. So I gladly give what I can. I sound professional (I guess), but I am not. I’m grateful to be participate in Mass in such a way. However, I wouldn’t begrudge a cantor for being paid. Chances are they are just trying to make a living doing something they love. They may be very grateful that their gift allows them to both glorify God and contribute to their means of living. Plus these professionals can be called in to cantor for weddings and funerals, which may call for someone more polished.
As per rehearsing, a cantor, professional or amateur, may spend hours practicing each weeks music. If they are to lead the congregation in song they have to know all the hymns as well as the psalm, sung responses, and anything else that might be asked. There is a great deal of preparation. It takes time. For the hour or so long Mass your cantor may have spent the entire week ahead going over every note and even rehearsing flow. She or he may be carrying this music with them to practice wherever they go.
Your cantor, assuming they are Catholic, might even attend two Masses that weekend because cantoring takes so much out of them that they might like to celebrate Mass more freely without the responsibilities.
I had formal lessons for years and now that I don’t I’m certain some old and new habits have cropped up. It’s smart to take some lessons time to time to get fresh ears on your technique and suggestions for improvement. Even the best singers DO have pitch problems. They might be minuscule, but they do occur. Sometimes the singer hears it themselves but can’t figure out how to fix it. A teacher can point out where this is occurring and offer methods that will strengthen pitch.
Some professionals and amateurs do take ongoing lessons. These are expensive. My teacher was $55 an hour and she was cheap for the area. Most classical training is closer to $75-100 an hour, or more. If you go once a week it adds up! So those who want to make singing their profession do hope to be paid as a cantor. I know several professional singers who cantor as part of their career. Usually they are also teaching, singing here and there for events, preforming in theatre, opera, or classical concerts, and often they have a “side job I have to also do to make enough to survive”.
As for me, this is not my career, I’m just happy to cantor. So I gladly give what I can. I sound professional (I guess), but I am not. I’m grateful to be participate in Mass in such a way. However, I wouldn’t begrudge a cantor for being paid. Chances are they are just trying to make a living doing something they love. They may be very grateful that their gift allows them to both glorify God and contribute to their means of living. Plus these professionals can be called in to cantor for weddings and funerals, which may call for someone more polished.
As per rehearsing, a cantor, professional or amateur, may spend hours practicing each weeks music. If they are to lead the congregation in song they have to know all the hymns as well as the psalm, sung responses, and anything else that might be asked. There is a great deal of preparation. It takes time. For the hour or so long Mass your cantor may have spent the entire week ahead going over every note and even rehearsing flow. She or he may be carrying this music with them to practice wherever they go.
Your cantor, assuming they are Catholic, might even attend two Masses that weekend because cantoring takes so much out of them that they might like to celebrate Mass more freely without the responsibilities.
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pnewton
Guest
I attend 1-3 as that is how many I have to, but I do miss going to Mass without responsibility. Fortunately, vacations afford me the opportunity. I was talking to my son this weekend waiting for Mass, and noted to him, that even after almost twenty years, I still get a few butterflies waiting for each Mass to start. Maybe this is one positive benefit.
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
I heard someone tonight who started lessons 12mths ago. She was not the best then because she had no idea how to use her vocals. Tonight her voice sounded lovely.
That’s professional lessons
That’s professional lessons
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Catherinabird
Guest
Lessons do wonders!
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Loud-living-dogma
Guest
I believe playing a recording is a no-no at Mass.
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Loud-living-dogma
Guest
Not to mention: “opportunity cost”. If someone makes a livelihood from their music, they might have to be at a different church working. They couldn’t afford to be playing for free at Mass, because they might have to be working somewhere else.
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Loud-living-dogma
Guest
$100 for a professional? I doubt that many make that much at a Catholic church. That’s about the going rate for a service for musicians in my area for professional instrumental jobs. I would think vocalists make a similar rate. I might also mention that a lot of musicians belong to a union, the American Federation of Musicians. I believe union scale minimum is around $65. I know some organists belong to AGO, American Guild of Organists. Their suggested pay levels were very high, I believe, as is appropriate for a professional with a high level of education and expertise.
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