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blanchardman
Guest
As a non-catholic I would say purgatory does not exist. I think Catholics will say there is.
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Michael68
Guest
Can you please explain what Jesus was talking about when he said “Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them and whose sins you retain are retained” John 20:22-23. How can this happen if they weren’t hearing confessions?Your verses are good, but not enough. There are more that apply.
Jesus said in Lk11:4 that we should pray in this way: “And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us” We would not be directed to here ask for forgiveness if we could not be forgiven by doing such. There is no direction to go to a priest. There is no “Sacrament of Reconciliation” in scripture.
Shalom,
Jerry
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PJM
Guest
You’re very welcome my friend
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PJM
Guest
Here from the CAF Administration is a previous reply to you’re question. Thanks for asking.
How is Easter Sunday determined? Palm Sunday? Ash Wednesday?
Full Question
How is Easter Sunday determined? Palm Sunday? Ash Wednesday?
Answer
Jesus rose from the dead on the first Sunday following the feast of Passover. (Technically, he may have risen Saturday night, but that still counts as Sunday on the Jewish reckoning, which begins each day at sunset instead of at midnight.)
The date of Passover is a complicated thing. Theoretically, the date should be the 14th of the Jewish month of Nisan, and it should correspond to a full moon (the Jewish calendar being partly lunar). In practice, it didn’t always work out that way. The month-moon cycles got out of synch, and sometimes feasts would be held on a “liturgical” full moon even when it was not an astronomical full moon. As a result, rabbis periodically had to announce when Passover would be celebrated.
Christians didn’t like being dependent on the pronouncements of rabbis for how to celebrate Christian feasts, so they came up with another way of determining the date. They decided that Easter would be celebrated on the first Sunday after (never on) the Paschal full moon.
Theoretically, the Paschal full moon is the first full moon occurring on or after the spring equinox. However, this day can be reckoned in different ways. One way is by looking at the sky, which yields the astronomicalspring equinox. But since this shifts from year to year, most people follow the calendrical spring equinox, which is reckoned as March 21.
On the Gregorian calendar (the one that we use), Easter is the first Sunday after the Paschal full moon, which is the first full moon on or after March 21. Easter thus always falls between March 22 and April 25.
Now, to find Palm Sunday (the sixth Sunday of Lent) you start with the date of Easter and back up one week: It is the Sunday before Easter Sunday.
To find Ash Wednesday, you start with the date of Easter Sunday, back up six weeks (that gives you the first Sunday of Lent), and then back up four more days: Ash Wednesday is the Wednesday before the first Sunday of Lent.
Answered by: Catholic Answers Staff
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benhur
Guest
Pretty good P. I would add that a certain element was added to church governance or practice .The church instead of being persecuted by civil authority, now used civil, governmental authority , to enforce her edicts. Not sure, but if I recall correctly, the Council at Nicea, which the emperor called for, while being very inspired in her faith declarations and loved by all thru the ages, also anathematized any teachers of contrary views with civil enforcement and penalties.I disagree:
The Edict of Milan is a part of RCC history. It was this single act that ties Catholicism and Constantine together
This action by Constantine freed up religious practice [heretofore the Church had been so severely persecuted that ti was literally driven underground into the catacombs.]l restored church properties and permitted the free practice of one’s CHOSEN FAITH [not just Catholicism]. .
Constantine’s motive for doing this [before he converted shortly before his death] was that he had conquered the entire known world and had deep concerns about being able to both govern it and to hold onto it. The RCC having spread to very much of that world proved to be a VERY effective tool, used by him in governance.As an example, juxtapose the life of Peter and most of the other bishops/popes living a life of piety and strictly caring for mostly spiritual (some corporal charity for poor or calamity stricken ), and mostly all martyred before Constantine, and then for popes to lead armies
Constantine’s influence within the Church [doctrinally] was nil; his use of the Church was to aid his issues of governance; NOT religious beliefs themselves. His mother though was a very solid Catholic, and did influence him.
As to Constantine founding the RCC; his reign was hundreds of years AFTER the Death and Resurrection of Christ; and Constantine’s role within the Church is FAR more mythical than fact.
The Early Church Fathers understood from the beginning that Peter and his successors held a place of primacy in the Church.
Clement of Rome
Accept our counsel and you will have nothing to regret. . . . If anyone disobeys the things which have been said by him [Jesus] through us, let them know that they will involve themselves in no small danger. We, however, shall be innocent of this sin and will pray with entreaty and supplication that the Creator of all may keep unharmed the number of his elect (Letter to the Corinthians 58:2, 59:1**[A.D. 95])**.
Ignatius of Antioch
You [the See of Rome] have envied no one, but others have you taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force (Epistle to the Romans 3:1 [A.D. 110]).
Irenaeus
But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles. Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition (Against Heresies 3:3:2 inter A.D. 180-190]).
See more atCOLOR=“Blue”]:staycatholic.com/ecf_primacy_of_rome.htm
One could also say Constantine laid the ground work for what happened with the next emperor, making Christianity the state religion. This is where some historians feel the church set herself up for more negative ramifications than positive ones. Perhaps the biggest is that this laid the groundwork for the next step, that of the church becoming more of a civil institution, even power broker, in the vacuum created by the partial fall of the Roman Empire. Again, some good consequences but also some not so good.(Consider Peter and most popes before this were martyred and lived pious, spiritually concerned lives and popes thereafter increasingly also concerned with temporal matters, even having ‘armies’).
Good topic.
Blessings
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benhur
Guest
Hi M,
Not sure, but are you asking if they heard confessions? It seems that this is assumed that they did. It also seems some say it must be* implied* but that it is* not explicit* in scripture that they did or would. Another words, do we interpret scripture by how others did before us and or by tradition ? We have it today, therefore it must have been from the beginning,if even in a base form ?
Also, are you sure you have not read or understood the answer to your question ? I thought someone posted the rebuttal, but I am not sure. What is your understanding of ‘our’ interpretation ?
Blessings
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Upgrade25
Guest
I’m confused about free will and God’s omniscience. If He knows what’s coming, then do we really have free will?
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Michael68
Guest
That’s what I’m trying to understand . What is your interpretation of John 20:20-23?
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PJM
Guest
eazyduzit eazyduzit is offline
Regular Member
**Matt.9: 6 **“But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” – he then said to the paralytic – “Rise, take up your bed and go home.”
This stated position try’s to take God out of the teaching, and stresses instead “mortal men.” BUT God’s Chosen priest like the Apostles who preceded them are GRANTED By God; some of his own power and authority.
Mt. 10:1-2 “[1] And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity. [2] The names of the twelve apostles are these:** first, Simon, who is called Pete**r, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zeb’edee, and John his brother”
Four times Christ makes clear that He IS sharing Godly authority with “men” [Look what he did through Moses and Aaron]
Mt 10:1-2 above
Jh 17:18-19 "As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. **And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth". **
Jn 20:21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. **As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” **
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
Mt 28: 18-20"[18] And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me [YOU!]. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with YOU always, to the close of the age."
Your interpreter proceeds from a point of Faith-UNBELIEF in what God wants to do; What God actually can do and what God actually DID Does do .
My friend show me just one example in the en tire Bible where God was “OK” with, tolerated, accepted, or permitted competing faith beliefs.
This understanding overlooks much other information that supports God’s and our Catholic claims that GOD"S Priest can and Do have the Power and authority to for sins in HIS Name. Amen!
Mt. 16:18-19 “[18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give YOU[all of the key’s] the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Mark.9: 24 "Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, “I believe; help my unbelief!”
Rom.11: 20; 23 “That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast only through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. And even the others, if they do not persist in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again”.
The Holy Spirit CANNOT be a part of ANY belief that contradicts Catholic Church Faith & Mortals teaching.
God Bless you,
Patrick
Regular Member
My friend, what is shared here is this mans PERSONAL opinion based on only human understanding. It attempts to LIMIT the power of God to do what He God has Ordained.
**Matt.9: 6 **“But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” – he then said to the paralytic – “Rise, take up your bed and go home.”
This stated position try’s to take God out of the teaching, and stresses instead “mortal men.” BUT God’s Chosen priest like the Apostles who preceded them are GRANTED By God; some of his own power and authority.
Mt. 10:1-2 “[1] And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity. [2] The names of the twelve apostles are these:** first, Simon, who is called Pete**r, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zeb’edee, and John his brother”
Four times Christ makes clear that He IS sharing Godly authority with “men” [Look what he did through Moses and Aaron]
Mt 10:1-2 above
Jh 17:18-19 "As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. **And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth". **
Jn 20:21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. **As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” **
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
Mt 28: 18-20"[18] And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me [YOU!]. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with YOU always, to the close of the age."
Your interpreter proceeds from a point of Faith-UNBELIEF in what God wants to do; What God actually can do and what God actually DID Does do .
My friend show me just one example in the en tire Bible where God was “OK” with, tolerated, accepted, or permitted competing faith beliefs.
This understanding overlooks much other information that supports God’s and our Catholic claims that GOD"S Priest can and Do have the Power and authority to for sins in HIS Name. Amen!
Mt. 16:18-19 “[18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give YOU[all of the key’s] the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Mark.9: 24 "Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, “I believe; help my unbelief!”
Rom.11: 20; 23 “That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast only through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. And even the others, if they do not persist in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again”.
The Holy Spirit CANNOT be a part of ANY belief that contradicts Catholic Church Faith & Mortals teaching.
God Bless you,
Patrick
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PJM
Guest
Thank you!
Here’s what your missing
Mt 16:18-19 "And I say to YOU!That thou art Peter; and [YOU]upon this rock** I will build my church,[singular]** and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to YOU! [ALL OF] the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
What you sharing is classified as a “Church PRACTICE” & as such are changeable
Church Doctrines and Dogma are unchangeable.
Having taught Pre-Confirmation Prep for 3 years and being a lifelong Catholic I have seen MANY Confirmed; and each time [not that it matters] it was done with Both hands.
What makes the Sacrament VALID & Licit is the WORDS, the FORM & and the Materials [in this case holy oil]
Thank you so much for sharing
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benhur
Guest
Foreknowledge does not hinder free will. If you were to see/know that you would die tomorrow, you still have free will to decide how to live out your last 24 hours. Chances are it would also be within your ‘character’, or at least reveal your true character.
Blessings
P
PJM
Guest
Tommy999 Tommy999 is offline
Regular Member
Tommy asked IF a person were to sin and then BEG God for forgiveness and was contrite and even willing to alter his life style Could / Would God forgive such a person?
Default Re: Do you have questions about Catholic beliefs & Practices
Quote:Originally Posted by PJM View Post
A VERY astute question and well put too
CONDITIONALLY God would forgive that person on the spot. IF [a really BIG IF] contrition is sincere to the point of with God’s future grace to amend one’s life style [action not just words] to avoid sinning that way again.
HOWEVER:
Because of the God imposed conditions; one MOST often would be wise to at least wonder if they had met God’s conditions sufficiently for God to forgive or not to forgive them. PERFECT contrition is the requirement; nothing less than.
Sacramental Confession is the KNOWN forgiveness of man’s sins Mt.16:19. And there is always [with contrition [even imperfect] grace attached to this Sacrament.
I edited your post so that I can respond to as many of your points as space permits.
God can and does but critically conditional
Your on safe ground here but again it is highly cognitional.
Isaiah 55 comes to mind
"Seek ye the Lord, while he may be found: call upon him, while he is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unjust man his thoughts, and let him return to the Lord, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God: for he is bountiful to forgive. For my thoughts are not your thoughts: nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thought
Friend what is missing from your example is critical to what God intended for this Sacrament; and not to anyway the same degree without it.
Jn 20:1-23 edited for space
Now when it was late that same day, the first of the week, and the doors were shut, where the disciples were gathered together, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them: Peace be to you. And when he had said this, he shewed them his hands and his side. … He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained".
What is missing from your example is:
- Absolute Certitude of forgiveness
- Know and assured forgiveneess and with it God’s fulfilled desire for OUR Peace
- The Grace and indwelling of the Holy Spirit [assured in Sacramental Confession} NOT assured in seeking directly God’s forgiveness.
Your understanding of God’s Justice is very good.
The differences Going Directly to God AND OR; going to what God has Directly and Precisely-Ordained as HIS NORM for the forgiveness of sin is PROFOUND and critically important. .
The sacraments all exist for our benefit; God being Perfect cannot be mad more-so. So assume some sort of right to bypass God’s Plan for man’s salvation is not a wise choice. In an emergency; ABSOLUTELY! As a freely chosen exclusive practice; NOT such a good idea. we are NOT to challenge God’s desires; by choosing what makes US “feel good.”
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benhur
Guest
I believe post 1030 of “what do you find strange…” our previous thread had an answer. i would only add that I think the gift of discernment did not die out with apostles.
So we hear of forgiveness of sins often cited in scripture thru Christ and His shed blood, and faith in that, even unto baptism and as part of the great commission. And that by the power of the Holy Spirit and Christ’s authority. We do not here of admonition to go to the confessional. In fact, we have admonition to the opposite, confessing not in secrecy, but one to another, and the earliest tradition has it sometimes before the congregation, if fitting.
There is no one that denies that the greatest of remitting of sins is at baptism and or by the washing of regeneration by the Holy Ghost in scripture. I have no problem in associating John 20:23 with this.
Blessings
F
fbl9
Guest
This is not an official answer that i give.
Yes there is suffering in purgatory.
The best description i can use for the type of suffering is… say one has a favourite shirt and it gets destroyed and one feels sad for the loss of that shirt. It would the sense of loss for something. The greater the attachment the greater the sense of loss.
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spedteacherita
Guest
What happens to the people in Purgatory and those who haven’t died yet when Christ returns? There’s the verse that “the dead in Christ will rise first.”
I did hear a priest on a Catholic channel say that there would be no purgatory when Christ returns?
Thanks and blessings!
Rita
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Richard_White
Guest
Well, there is nothing I believe that is officially taught in this regard. I believe though that it is safe to say that God will see to it that all of those in Purgatory will have finished their purgation by the time Our Lord Jesus comes again.What happens to the people in Purgatory and those who haven’t died yet when Christ returns? There’s the verse that “the dead in Christ will rise first.”
I did hear a priest on a Catholic channel say that there would be no purgatory when Christ returns?
Thanks and blessings!
Rita
May God bless you abundantly and forever!
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adrift
Guest
The Catechism refers to Purgatory as the final purification. . If you have ever been severely burned you have to remove the skin in order to allow normal circulation to resume It is called escharotomy it is very painful but in the end it feels good. It is the way I feel about purgatory We have an attraction to sin an attraction that attraction has to be purged from us. When it is done we will fill free and perfect.
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PJM
Guest
Yes; it is thought ti be as severe in intensity as hell BUT
The huge difference is that it is suffered joyfully KNOWING that they are heaven bound; and Purgatory is just a “stop=over.”Godd question, thanks!
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PJM
Guest
Thanks so very much:thumbsup:
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