Do you have to be Catholic to be Saved?

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Put simply, the RCC considers all Triune-baptized believers “catholic” as in, part of the Universal Church. You are not in full communion with the Roman Catholic Church, but that’s not going to bar you from Heaven.

I used to be a Baptist, too. 😉
 
PC Master, I recommend you read ‘One,Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic:
The Early Church Was the Catholic Church’ by Kenneth D. Whitehead
for an accurate historical account of the Catholic Church. The early Church
from the time of the original Apostles was essentially the Catholic Church of today.
The Catholic Church today has preserved and possesses all the features of the
early Church. It is not a phenomenon that began centuries after the time of the
apostles since Pentecost.

"
 
Abbi said:
Hi!
My name is Abbi, and I am 17 years old, I live in New Zealand and have been brought up as a protestant christian - having attended a baptist church ever since I can remember. I am a firm believer in Jesus Christ, and have accepted Him as my saviour. I am also in my last year at a Catholic school, and have been exposed to obvious differences between Catholics and Protestants, but still believing that despite these differences, as long as we believe in Jesus and choose to live our life for Him, we will be written in the Book of Life.

However today I struck a problem. We have a new priest at our school, and he declared that “if you are not catholic, then you are going to hell.” I was also hesitant to question what grounds he stood on - after all, he is a priest! But I have plenty of scripture references that are contradictory to his statement - it seems that he is contradicting the Bible itself, as it says in John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.” - not that you have to belong to a particular type of church. The idea seems absurd.

Is this idea consistent with the teachings of the catholic church?

If you would be able to get back to me it would be much apprieciated.

God bless.
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Something tells me you’re using hyperbole. I don’t know any priests who would flat out tell someone if they’re not Catholic they’re going to hell. Anyone baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is a defacto member of the Catholic Church, but not in full communion if confessing a different faith. What comes next is up to you, and of course relies on external factors as well as any internal prompting of grace which may accompany a desire to learn about Catholicism.

The links that you are using to investigate the faith are not in the service of Truth. This site, as well as vatican.va and newadvent.com, which have online editions of the Catechism, are where you should be looking if you are interested in the truth. There are enough Protestant trolls here who will lead you to sites that are dubious at best.
 
To be honest, I don’t believe so. I can’t see God saying that because you’re not Catholic, you’re going to the eternal fires of hell. For Catholics to say that, that’s judgement, which is wrong. Only God has the right to judge, not anybody else. This is the reason why I’m not to sure about my own religion anymore. I believe in a lot of what it says, but to tell millions of people that they’re going to hell just because they’re not catholic, that’s not right. My father would say the same thing, too. In fact, he told me that if a priest or nun or any of the bishops and yada yada yada said that you’d burn in hell if you weren’t Catholic, they’re not true Catholics. They will answer to God for this, believe me when I say this. If anybody thinks I’m wrong, that’s o.k. I honestly believe that if you truly have faith and believe in God and Jesus, I don’t care if you’re a protestant or Catholic, you’re a christian.
 
PC_Master said:
First, don’t be so sure that the Catholic church was first – check your history a bit, and you’ll see that the organized Catholic church did not actually exist for centuries after Christ’s death. The term “Catholic” was used in writings, but it didn’t refer to the Roman church.

I’ve been doing a lot of studying of the Catholic church myself lately, so if you’d like to ask questions, I’d be willing to try to respond and provide you with the info you need to make an informed decision. 🙂

Also, the one true “church” was not a religious organization as we think of it. The term church didn’t have that meaning. The word used was ecclesia (which Catholics have since adapted), and literally means “called out ones”. So, basically, it speaks of those who adhere to a particular belief system. A religious heirarchy is only a more modern interpretation of the word – not the one the authors of scripture had in mind, nor is it the way the early converts of the church would have understood it.
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Actually history disproves your claim. The first time the Church was refer to as Catholic was in the late 1st Century. Saint Ignatius of Antioch, Bishop of Antioch, the disciple of St. John the Apostle, writes the following:

Ignatius of Antioch,Epistle to the Smyrnaeans

Chapter 8.
Let nothing be done without the bishop. See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid
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There were Popes after Peter. Pope Linus succeeded Peter (reign 67-76 AD, the Second Pope, St. Anacletus (reign 76-88), St. Clement of Rome (88-97 AD). For a complete list of the Popes go here.

newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm
 
We even have writings of Pope Clement.

Clement wrote this Letter to Corinthians in around 88-90.

He states,
The church of God which sojourns at Rome, to the church of God sojourning at Corinth, to them that are called and sanctified by the will of God, through our Lord Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, from Almighty God through Jesus Christ, be multiplied.
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Owing, dear brethren, to the sudden and successive calamitous events which have happened to ourselves, we feel that we have been somewhat tardy in turning our attention to the points respecting which you consulted us; and especially to that shameful and detestable sedition, utterly abhorrent to the elect of God, which a few rash and self-confident persons have kindled to such a pitch of frenzy, that your venerable and illustrious name, worthy to be universally loved, has suffered grievous injury. For who ever dwelt even for a short time among you, and did not find your faith to be as fruitful of virtue as it was firmly established? Who did not admire the sobriety and moderation of your godliness in Christ? Who did not proclaim the magnificence of your habitual hospitality? And who did not rejoice over your perfect and well-grounded knowledge? For you did all things without respect of persons, and walked in the commandments of God, being obedient to those who had the rule over you, and giving all fitting honour to the presbyters among you. You enjoined young men to be of a sober and serious mind, you instructed your wives to do all things with a blameless, becoming, and pure conscience, loving their husbands as in duty bound; and you taught them that, living in the rule of obedience, they should manage their household affairs becomingly, and be in every respect marked by discretion.
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Chapter 2. Praise of the Corinthians Continued.
Moreover, you were all distinguished by humility, and were in no respect puffed up with pride, but yielded obedience rather than extorted it, and were more willing to give than to receive. Acts 20:35 Content with the provision which God had made for you, and carefully attending to His words, you were inwardly filled with His doctrine, and His sufferings were before your eyes. Thus a profound and abundant peace was given to you all, and you had an insatiable desire for doing good, while a full outpouring of the Holy Spirit was upon you all. Full of holy designs, you did, with true earnestness of mind and a godly confidence, stretch forth your hands to God Almighty, beseeching Him to be merciful unto you, if you had been guilty of any involuntary transgression. Day and night ye were anxious for the whole brotherhood, 1 Peter 2:17 that the number of God’s elect might be saved with mercy and a good conscience. You were sincere and uncorrupted, and forgetful of injuries between one another. Every kind of faction and schism was abominable in your sight. You mourned over the transgressions of your neighbours: their deficiencies you deemed your own. You never grudged any act of kindness, being “ready to every good work.” Titus 3:1 Adorned by a thoroughly virtuous and religious life, you did all things in the fear of God. The commandments and ordinances of the Lord were written upon the tablets of your hearts. Proverbs 7:3
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newadvent.org/fathers/1010.htm

I also like to add, that at time, it was only called Catholic Church.
 
Abbi said:
Hi!
My name is Abbi, and I am 17 years old, I live in New Zealand and have been brought up as a protestant christian - having attended a baptist church ever since I can remember. I am a firm believer in Jesus Christ, and have accepted Him as my saviour. I am also in my last year at a Catholic school, and have been exposed to obvious differences between Catholics and Protestants, but still believing that despite these differences, as long as we believe in Jesus and choose to live our life for Him, we will be written in the Book of Life.

However today I struck a problem. We have a new priest at our school, and he declared that “if you are not catholic, then you are going to hell.” I was also hesitant to question what grounds he stood on - after all, he is a priest! But I have plenty of scripture references that are contradictory to his statement - it seems that he is contradicting the Bible itself, as it says in John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.” - not that you have to belong to a particular type of church. The idea seems absurd.

Is this idea consistent with the teachings of the catholic church?

If you would be able to get back to me it would be much apprieciated.

God bless.
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I seriously doubt any Priest told you this, Especailly given your replies in this thread where you start throwing out the standard Protetstant saved by faith alone verses.
 
Here’s the deal. [Part I] You’ve got to be firmly resolved to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, strength, and soul to be saved.

[Part II] That means you must desire to obey God in all He has commanded, to believe all He has revealed, and to receive all the gifts He has given. The only way to do this fully is to be Catholic.

However, on the other hand, if for some reason some obstacle that is out of your control prohibits you from doing Part II in its entirety, but you still have Part I, you can be saved.

Only God knows and will judge who is guilty for what–the best bet is to do all you can to love Him, and that means becoming a Catholic 🙂
 
Pax_et_Caritas said:
The following is an infallible dogmatic statement given by a Pope…

So, what does all this mean? In my opinion, it means that God has used this priest to make you aware of something you did not suspect (that the Catholic Church is indeed the Church our Lord founded and necessary for salvation), and is now He is calling you, and drawing you, into His one true Church “outside of which there is no salvation”.
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Oh my goodness. Where is the *Pax *and *Caritas *here? I am shocked, truly. This is a very misleading post, and unfair to the quester.

I have been a Canadian Convention Baptist all my life, and am now converting to Catholicism. But I would never, ever, say to anyone that no one but a Catholic would enter heaven (define?).

First of all:

In the **Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, paragraph 16, the Vatican II **Council Fathers wrote: "Those who have not yet received the gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.

There is, first, that people to which the covenants and promises were made, and from which Christ was born according to the flesh (cf. Romans 9:4-5): In view of the divine choice, they are a people most dear for the sake of the fathers, for the gifts of God are without repentance (cf. Romans 11:28-29).

"But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Moslems: These profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.

"Nor is God remote from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, since he gives to all men life and breath and all things (cf. Acts 17:25-28), and since the Saviour wills all men to be saved (cf. 1 Timothy 2:4).

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through dictates of their conscience—those too, may achieve eternal salvation.

“Nor shall divine providence deny the assistance necessary for salvation to those who, without any fault of theirs, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God, and who, not without grace, strive to lead a good life.”

So the Fathers of the Council do not exclude anyone acting in good faith from the possibility of salvation.

Then we come to the issue of those who know about God, and turn away. Presumably they, unlike Hindus or Buddhists who know nothing of our God, go straight to hell. After all the Dogmatic Constitution (above) suggests that intelligent people like Abbi and me who are told they will go to hell if they are not Catholic, but refuse to believe it and continue not to be Catholic, but rather Baptist or Buddhist, certainly will go straight to hell.

Remember especially that this is the interpretation of the Catholic Church, and not the interpretation of lots of other people who belong to other Christian denominations and other faiths, who have the same right to their own beliefs as do Catholics by international law and by the word of the scriptures.

What I have learned from thoughtful members on this Forum (I can give you the citations if you wish), from people of Christian and other faiths around the world, and from my own Catholic spiritual directors is that

(1) ours is a God of love
(2) our definition of ‘heaven’ is uncertain, but it is probably not a place in the sky with many houses and thrones - more like the vast universe in the Hubble photos on the internet
(3) there are likely to be very few people in hell (define?), and many in heaven, as children of a loving God
(4) people of many faiths will be with God, in his presence, and not separated from him: they are his children
(5) people who have been moral non-Christians, people who have turned away from a belief in my God or your God or someone else’s God but have led a good life will be with God in heaven

In other words, unless you are evil, unless you consciously create evil, if you believe in God - whether as a Muslim, a Jew, a Hindu etc - and if you ‘love your neighbour as yourself’ and ‘love God with all your heart’, you will go to heaven. You do not have to be a Catholic to do so.

Being Catholic is not a guarantee of anything. How you behave in your relationship to God and Jesus, and how you behave in your relationship to other people is what counts. Sure, the Catholic Church is a jolly good church, with lots of good about it, and there are lots of reasons why many of us are or choose to be Catholic. But to say that non-Catholics go to hell is probably blackmail. It is certainly not true.
 
Actually he did say that if we weren’t Catholic we would go to hell…and he has before…He is a new priest, and a very old-fashioned one. He also said if you are not Catholic then you are not fully human, and that all homosexuals are bad - Not the “act” of homosexuality - all homosexuals. I’m thinking about writing him a letter. I didn’t bring up any “saved alone” verses, but I will be sure to next time.

To Allischalmers: I live in a fairly small city, and its the only christian high school - its also the one best known education-standard-wise. Yes, my Baptist pastor knows I attend - he sends his children there as well! There are a lot of teenagers that go to my church and the Catholic school. Problem???

Um… thanks everyone! A little confused right now… but ill digest all this information later today 🙂
 
I have heard some priests say some strange things over the years and have made myself unpopular when I have challenged them when they say something that is incorrect.

Fortunately, we have a body of teaching that we can turn to for verification, and almost 2000 years worth of writings.
 
Abbi said:
Actually he did say that if we weren’t Catholic we would go to hell…and he has before…He is a new priest, and a very old-fashioned one. He also said if you are not Catholic then you are not fully human, and that all homosexuals are bad - Not the “act” of homosexuality - all homosexuals. I’m thinking about writing him a letter. I didn’t bring up any “saved alone” verses, but I will be sure to next time.

To Allischalmers: I live in a fairly small city, and its the only christian high school - its also the one best known education-standard-wise. Yes, my Baptist pastor knows I attend - he sends his children there as well! There are a lot of teenagers that go to my church and the Catholic school. Problem???

Um… thanks everyone! A little confused right now… but ill digest all this information later today 🙂
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Code: 
 If this priest truly said this, in these words, and is teaching this, perhaps the letter you should write should be to the Bishop of the Diocese you live in. What he said is not the teaching of the Catholic Church, and he is giving the students false teaching. But be sure you have your facts straight. Perhaps you need to speak to one of the other teachers or the Principal of the school you attend. This is very serious, and the part about not being fully human if you are not Catholic is especially appalling. We are all human beings made in the image and likeness of God, that is what is taught in the Bible (read Genesis) and that is what is taught by the Church. To state that a human being created by God is not fully human is unBiblical. Perhaps you misunderstood him? 
 I have my Grandfather's copy of the Baltimore Catechism, copyrighted in 1901, and it states this: "All are bound to belong to the Church, and he who knows the Church to be the true Church and remains out of it cannot be saved."  Notice that it says you must know the Church to be the true Church and remain out of it,  in order to not be saved. One must first believe and know the Church to be true, and then willfuly reject the Church. This teaching from the old Catechism and our new one is essentially the same.  When I went to school in the 1950's I was taught the same thing, and was explicitly taught that "good" Protestants may be saved, but without the benefits of the graces of the Sacraments, it is more difficult to stay on the path to Salvation.
 A priest named Father Feeny taught what you say what this priest is teaching, that if you are not Catholic you willl go to hell, and was excommunicated for it.  This is called Feeneyism.
 
Okay the priest is talking to us again on Friday I think…so I’ll make sure I understand fully what he means then…but those were his words :eek:

This is quite a bit to figure out…:confused:
Um… I’m not actually concerned about what different popes say you see, as far as I’m concerned, they may be great role models and all, but they are still human, and therefore capable of making mistakes. On a personal level, I’d rather just look at the Bible - and as far as I can see, the only thing in the biblical grounds being stood on here is that Jesus said you have to belong to the true church (-could someone please tell me where this is, so I can look into the context etc?)

And I believe that the true church is any church that claims Jesus is the Son of God - if you can give me anything in the Bible that says differently I would be very interested to know about it.
 
Hi Abbi,
I think there is often some confusion when speaking of the Church and a church, being Catholic or being catholic in the faith. The term catholic (universal) became Catholic for those who believed in the story of Christ because for centuries the message was universal and unchanging. It still is to be honest, but others, like Luther and Calvin has some different ideas as well as some good sense to raise legitimate issues about how the Catholic Church had become at a certain time.

Most Catholics can look at history and conceed there were some dark periods, but the message never changed even if the actions of the Church did. I think it is important to understand that distinction.

I can only describe how I have come to feel about the Catholic Church: I trust Her more than I trust any other human agency because it is not altogether human, but guided by the Holy Spirit and is the ONLY human institution with such Authority from G-d.

I have had disagreements with various priests and other Catholics about many issues and believe it or not some priests can be wrong about some issues just as other Catholics can be wrong, but if they are true to the office they hold they must be respected.

Even if I personally disagree on some issues I will ackowledge the authority of the Church and would not gainsay Her publicly, but I would/do speak to a priest about it for guidence. This site is a good way to pose difficult questions, too.

In a direct answer to your question I would say no, but I will add that to be Catholic and follow the Church is as close to perfect as we may be able to get. I am sure you have noticed many Catholics are not perfect, but that is not really the point. The point is that if you were to follow any direction about who and what and how Jesus Christ meant for us to live our life, I would be hard pressed to find someone more worthy than to whom Christ gave such Authority to listen to- the Pope.
 
Abbi> I strongly suggest you check out some Catholic sites, and some anti-Catholic sites. Both will use scripture to support their claims, and both will take things out of context. However, I believe that if you carefully study scripture for yourself, you’ll see the truth. Bear in mind also that repeatedly scripture speaks of those who believe in the name (in culture and context, that means the character, the personality, the being) of Jesus as being the only ones to be saved. It also says there’s no other name (which I would say even includes “Catholic”) by which we must be saved.

Pax et Caritas> Yes, I know that Jehova’s witnesses and many other denominations claim that “we’re right”. I agree that the claim alone doesn’t validate the claimant. However, this was exactly my point – in response to a poster who was pointing out that the Catholic church claims to be right, and thus supposedly is right.

Regarding the issue of intra-church discipline, he didn’t say “take it to the Church”, as in a religious organization. He said, “take it to the church”, as in ecclesia, as in “called out ones”, as in “followers of Christ’s teachings”. This in no way shows that the Catholic church, as an organization, has authority. Thus, your use is out of context. It’s clear to see for anyone who would take the time to read the passage in question. The concept is that a congregation of brothers and sisters in Christ will be more likely to be heard, and it also introduces a semi-hidden concept – multiple believers in Christ, together, who share the same basic beliefs in the gospel, are less likely to err in disciplinary matters than one or two individuals. I realize you’re going to say that the Catholic church is a proof of this, as it’s so huge, but the Biblical example simply doesn’t fit with an international church. It fits with a small local congregation.

In regards to the papacy – I’m in the process of a series of conversations which I believe (despite being open to being wrong here) will disprove the validity of the papacy. Saying “it’s true, whether you believe or not” is rhetoric, not a valid point.

In regards to invincible ignorance which, as you describe it, sounds different from what I’ve heard from other Catholics – the quote excerpts I gave before are quite explicit in saying that noone who is not “in the bosom and full unity” of the Catholic church will be in heaven. This is explicit – if you’re not Catholic, you go to hell. This, however, isn’t a popular teaching in today’s culture, and thus the Catholic church does as it’s always done – adapt. Also, as to your claim of the 0.001% of the invincibly ignorant who will actually be saved…if they lived a perfect life, they aren’t in need of salvation. If it’s the lack of knowing the truth that would allow them to be saved, why not simply stop spreading the truth – then everyone would be saved.

In regards to anti-Catholic web sites – can’t you say the same about pro-Catholic ones? I’ve seen all sorts of outright lies from Catholic sources, which even disagree with the Catholic teachings, but were specifically brought up to condemn protestantism.

Greg27> I’m a bit confused – you admit that the Catholic church has altered its teachings, and yet you still believe it to be infallible?

Good Fella> I appreciate the recommendation, but I’m rather guessing that it’s much like the other Catholic books I’ve read – full of rhetoric, instead of facts. The typical Catholic mode of operation, in my honest opinion, is to use some truthful facts, yes, but then to tell people how to interpret those facts in a Catholic-friendly way, rather than letting the reader figure it out for themselves. Also, I could argue that other churches also posess all of the features of the early Christian church.

Mannyfit> I am quite familiar with the way the modern Roman church interprets history to its own advantage. However, simply stating these things as though they were fact is silly. For instance, Linus may well have led the church at Rome at some point, and even been ordained by one or more of the apostles (after all, the apostles did ordain bishops/elders/pastors – all relatively the same term actually). However, a possible interpretation which includes the facts does not necessitate itself as valid.

CB Catholic> I have studied the Catholic church in some detail, and as of yet do not believe that it is the “one true church”. I honestly don’t believe it. Does that mean, hypothetically, that if the Catholic church is indeed the one true church, my disbelief would still allow me to be saved?

And what about cradle Catholics who start to study for themselves and end up leaving the church? If they never truly believed (of their own recognissaince) that it was the one true church, can they be held accountable? This sure sounds like the Catholic teaching is changing to be more accepting of non-Catholics.
 
You know what?
This seems to have become a lot more complicated than it needs to be. I’m gunna go back to John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes (obviously accepting him as your personal saviour) -in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Its not “whoever believes AND is Catholic”

Surely it doesn’t matter what church you belong to - just as long as you find a relationship with Jesus Christ? I mean I have never felt comfortable in a Catholic mass, and never felt God’s prescence there at all - actually (no offence), but some of them have creeped me out. I have never wanted to pray to Mary, and I doubt I ever will. I believe that I am living my christian life fully without any tradition not backed up by the Bible. If other people feel closer to God in a Catholic church then so be it. I’ll bet every church has faults, and that different churches appeal to different people - but as long as Jesus is said to be the Son of God, and the people are encouraged to seek a relationship with him, what does it matter?

Feel free to point out any fault in my judgement - after all, I’m only 17!🙂
 
I like Joan of Ark’s reply to her inquisitors as to if she be saved or no.

“If I am not, may it please God to make me so. If I am may it please God to keep me so.”

A thorough reading of the Catechism with pencil in hand may be in order. Yes, it’s a big book. You’re young. And, I have a feeling, you may love it!
 
Abbi said:
You know what?
This seems to have become a lot more complicated than it needs to be. I’m gunna go back to John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes (obviously accepting him as your personal saviour) -in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Its not “whoever believes AND is Catholic”

Surely it doesn’t matter what church you belong to - just as long as you find a relationship with Jesus Christ? I mean I have never felt comfortable in a Catholic mass, and never felt God’s prescence there at all - actually (no offence), but some of them have creeped me out. I have never wanted to pray to Mary, and I doubt I ever will. I believe that I am living my christian life fully without any tradition not backed up by the Bible. If other people feel closer to God in a Catholic church then so be it. I’ll bet every church has faults, and that different churches appeal to different people - but as long as Jesus is said to be the Son of God, and the people are encouraged to seek a relationship with him, what does it matter?

Feel free to point out any fault in my judgement - after all, I’m only 17!🙂
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Abbi what do you make of this Scripture:

16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.Matthew 16
 
That the Catholic Church, as we know it today wasn’t established until 280 years after Jesus, and that Jesus established the church that aknowledges he is the Son of God…That I belong to the Church of Christ through believing in Jesus.
 
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