Do you have to believe Marian dogma to be a good Catholic?

[po18guy]

I am a Protestant making a transition into the Catholic Church, and well I can’t get past Mary. I have listened to a lot of arguments made in defence of the CC teaching on Mary, and I am still not convinced. If Mary was born sinless, that would not make her human, for the very definition of human is a flawed creature by the Biblical standard.

Forgive me if this has been covered in prior posts. What you need to do in order to become Catholic, is to give intellectual assent to the teachings of the Church, while knowing that a more complete understanding will follow. I was right there with you even after years as a Catholic.

In the meantime, Adam and Eve were created sinless, and were totally human. If they had not fallen, they would be alive today, and still sinless. That is the biblical standard. Think of this: Jesus, through Whom all things were created (John 1:1-3), created His own mother. How can a sinless God take flesh from sinful flesh, since His human nature was fully human?

Quick! Get yourself the “RCIA bible”, aka Catholicism for Dummies. It should be mandatory in every RCIA program. It has the nihil obstat and imprimatur, so its contents can be used as a catechism.

Lastly, you will notice your protestant thinking slowly change to Catholic. Many concepts are hard to grasp simply because non-Catholic (and non-Orthodox) thinking is substantially older and different - even when discussing the exact same thing.

Marian doctrine is not crucial to your salvation, but greatly enriches your spiritual life. As you have heard, her job was to bring Jesus to the world, and now it is to bring the world to Jesus.

 

[Leegal]

I have been a Catholic all my life…I have always had trouble with the Marian part of the Catholic faith. Don’t get me wrong, I believe in the Virgin Birth of Christ and the fact that Mary was a very special Jewish woman and was chosen by God to bear his son. In reading the scriptures, it was always apparent to me that everything Mary did always pointed towards Jesus. Would it not make sense that putting her in an almost deity position would be offensive to her. I don’t mean this to lessen her importance in salvation history, but the humble person Mary was would not want to be raised up and almost worshiped. I think the church needs to have its people understand the difference between devotion and worship. Sometimes I think members of the church really don’t know the difference.
The bottom line to all of this is that I don’t think you need to believe in Marian Dogma in order to be a good Catholic. I was always taught that what was essential to being a good Catholic was to believe in what we state in the Nicene Creed at Mass.

Let’s see if I can get Fr. Barron right. He said we do not worship Mary as we do Christ. Every honor, reverance and devotion bestowed upon Her is directed toward Christ through Her.

I think it was in the 4th episode of his series that he explains, though he does not specifically confront the word “worship” instead presenting that everything directed toward Her is directed THROUGH Her to Christ. That’s the best I can explain, and it may fall short. And yes, everything does point to Jesus, as he explains it – ultimately.

 

[bmullins]

Let’s see if I can get Fr. Barron right. He said we do not worship Mary as we do Christ. Every honor, reverance and devotion bestowed upon Her is directed toward Christ through Her.

I think it was in the 4th episode of his series that he explains, though he does not specifically confront the word “worship” instead presenting that everything directed toward Her is directed THROUGH Her to Christ. That’s the best I can explain, and it may fall short. And yes, everything does point to Jesus, as he explains it – ultimately.

We do not worship anyone but God. It comes down to understanding Latria (worship due God alone), hyperdulia (reverence for Mary, higher than another of the other Saints, but still far from the reverence for God) and dulia (reverence for saints, angels, etc.)

We believe that Mary does not act on her own, that only God can answer our prayers, but that Mary can take those prayers to God and because of her special relationship with her Son, she has a better chance of gaining his favor for us than we would alone. Much the same as he performed the miracle at Cana though it was ‘not yet his time.’

 

[Arizona_Samson]

she has a better chance of **gaining his favor **for us than we would alone.

Then what you’re advocating is not a gospel of grace, but of works…

 

[bmullins]

I’m proclaiming no such thing. I am proclaiming that God answers prayers. Grace can indeed be passed to us through our works, just as God can heal those who pray for it. Mary praying for us is indeed a work, but it’s God who answers those prayers (grace.) Or do you think God does not answer our prayers?

Do you not believe that “The earnest prayer of a righteous person has great power and produces wonderful results.” Or do you believe that those who are in God’s presence are not righteous?

 

[PRmerger]

Then what you’re advocating is not a gospel of grace, but of works…

If you believe prayer is “work”, and we ought not “work”, then…well, then your faith journey will be bereft without prayer, Samson.

 

[Fraz94]

If you can’t accept Mary and the Catholic teachings on her and the Marian Dogmas then you cannot become a Catholic, you have to publically declare your belief in all teachings of the Church to join her and be received into Full Communion.

Perhaps you should watch a movie such Our Lady of Fatima? or the Lourdes movie- it might help you, rather than reading lots of books. However, you must accept Our Lady- the Devil will do anything to stop you coming to her, he has fooled all Protestants in this way, turn away from Protestantism. We as Catholics love Protestants (the people), Our Lady loves all but Protestantism is evil.