do you have to go through the born-again thing to get to Heaven?

[distracted]

Every baptized Christian has been born again of water and the Spirit. We don’t get to heaven without it, under normal circumstances (John 3:3-5). The Catholic Church recognizes two other forms of baptism: of desire and of blood/martyrdom (in either case, lacking the opportunity for baptism before death). Further:

CCC 847 Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience, those too may achieve eternal salvation.

“Accepting Jesus as one’s personal Lord and Savior” or “giving one’s heart to Jesus” results in the “born-again” experience. But this is a Protestant, man-made invention; it’s not the biblical way.

Jim Dandy
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

then how do you explain Catholics who have been through this regeneration of born-again and yet have never stepped foot in a non-catholic church?

 

[distracted]

The choices given in the poll for this thread include, *‘yes but you can be “born-again” in Purgatory’ *.

Purgatory has nothing to do with being “born again.” I just wanted to make that clear.

Peace to all, Jim Dandy

its basically the whole reason there IS a Purg… to get cleansed like you should have gotten cleansed (perfectly) during life… (yet few do)

God is absolutely Holy and good and nothing impure or not good gets into Heaven… Purg is God’s mercy in action…

if this kind of cleaning up that happens in Purg can’t be called being born again… don’t know what can be…

 

[Hiskid1973]

I put yes because it is in scripture and I had a powerful conversion experience and still going strong after almost 40 years…My friend and druggy coworker had the same powerful conversion experience and did a 180…We blew our coworkers away by the change in our lives and talking to them about salvation through Christ…Before God got a hold of me I was into “chariots of the gods” believing we were seeded by aliens…Pretty out there huh…Grace and peace to you

 

[Jim_Dandy]

i hate when people make comments with no explanation or elaboration… and then just take off…

I don’t understand your criticism. Could you elaborate a little, please?

I’m sorry it took me a while to get back to this thread. I’d like to devote all my time to the forum, but I do have other obligations.

Peace be with you, Jim Dandy

 

[Jim_Dandy]

then how do you explain Catholics who have been through this regeneration of born-again and yet have never stepped foot in a non-catholic church?

The term “born again” appears only twice in the New Testament. In John 3:3-5, Jesus tells us how it happens – through water and the Spirit. That means baptism. It may or not be an emotional experience.

The early Christians, who were taught by the Apostles before the New Testament existed, wrote about being “born again” in baptism.

People certainly may have emotional experiences at baptism or at other times in their lives. But we are “born again” only once in baptism, “the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit” Titus 3:5.

In a sense, Catholics are born again in Confession and every time we receive the Eucharist and the other Sacraments.

Peace be with you, Jim Dandy

 

[Jim_Dandy]

its basically the whole reason there IS a Purg… to get cleansed like you should have gotten cleansed (perfectly) during life… (yet few do)

God is absolutely Holy and good and nothing impure or not good gets into Heaven… Purg is God’s mercy in action…

if this kind of cleaning up that happens in Purg can’t be called being born again… don’t know what can be…

The New Testament tells us that we are born again through baptism (John 3:3-5).

Catechism of the Catholic Church 1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation, but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

Peace, Jim Dandy

 

[Jim_Dandy]

It seems to me that only those who claim to be born-again (which is usually protestants) know how to truly act like a Christian. I guess i am a little (yeah right ) bitter about how Catholics have treated me throughout my life…

Those who have been thro this regeneration thing do NOT treat me shabbily unless they have fallen into sin & don’t particularly want to pull themselves out of it…

just my thoghts…

I’m very sorry. May you find consolation in the Eucharist.

Peace be with you, Jim Dandy

 

[distracted]

I put yes because it is in scripture and I had a powerful conversion experience and still going strong after almost 40 years…My friend and druggy coworker had the same powerful conversion experience and did a 180…We blew our coworkers away by the change in our lives and talking to them about salvation through Christ…Before God got a hold of me I was into “chariots of the gods” believing we were seeded by aliens…Pretty out there huh…Grace and peace to you

thanks be to God

as stated b4… it seems that i get along better with those who have been thro this than those who have not, no matter how devout a Catholic they are (or think they are)

so i don’t think its too far out there to assert tht if one doesn’t go thro this experience on Earth he will go thro it in Purg…

pepole rationalize and tell themselves that God doesn’t require this and doesn’t require that… its not just those OSASers who do that either… a LOT Of Ctaholics do it… you wouldn’t believe some of the weird convresations i’ve had w/ Catholics… the things they accept in their lives… (evils)… but whatever… Then they act like I’m some kind of lunatic fanatic religious freak cuz i take Jesus seriously…

anyhow… i guess we’re suposed to rejoice when we are “hated” by people who don’t … like us liking Jesus …

 

[distracted]

The term “born again” appears only twice in the New Testament. In John 3:3-5, Jesus tells us how it happens – through water and the Spirit. That means baptism. It may or not be an emotional experience.

The early Christians, who were taught by the Apostles before the New Testament existed, wrote about being “born again” in baptism.

People certainly may have emotional experiences at baptism or at other times in their lives. But we are “born again” only once in baptism, “the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit” Titus 3:5.

In a sense, Catholics are born again in Confession and every time we receive the Eucharist and the other Sacraments.

Peace be with you, Jim Dandy

some hav been baptized as infants AND gone thro the born-again thing. Apparently you aren’t one of them?

 

[Justin1982]

Baptism by definition is being reborn into a life of faith.

 

[distracted]

Baptism by definition is being reborn into a life of faith.

true… but there is a difference between infant baptism… or mere baptism of any kind… .and being born again… filled w/ the Spirit… Being filled w/ the Spirit is NOT emotionalism as one poster seemed to be saying… Was it you??

anyhow… a lot of posters don’t seem to making that distinction…

 

[Hiskid1973]

thanks be to God

as stated b4… it seems that i get along better with those who have been thro this than those who have not, no matter how devout a Catholic they are (or think they are)

so i don’t think its too far out there to assert tht if one doesn’t go thro this experience on Earth he will go thro it in Purg…

pepole rationalize and tell themselves that God doesn’t require this and doesn’t require that… its not just those OSASers who do that either… a LOT Of Ctaholics do it… you wouldn’t believe some of the weird convresations i’ve had w/ Catholics… the things they accept in their lives… (evils)… but whatever… Then they act like I’m some kind of lunatic fanatic religious freak cuz i take Jesus seriously…

anyhow… i guess we’re suposed to rejoice when we are “hated” by people who don’t … like us liking Jesus …

Thank you for the kind comments…I have spoken tt what I’d call charismatic catholic’s who talk of conversion of the heart…They when through all the regular channels (if I could put it that way) and at a point realized something is missing and have a heart changing experience same as us fundy evangelicals…Somewhere there is an unmet need for a real relation ship is the best I can explain it…Like yur saith Faustina, I believe she had a powerful change of heart…Her leadeship wasn’t sure what to do with her…Her heart call just like mine"Jesus I trust in You" Iv’e been to charasmatic worship gatherings with preist’s an nuns there…You could see their lives passionate about Christ just like everyone else…I had a catholic neighbor
at the last place I lived…We both put out signs/Flags about Jesus…Christ is Risen , He is alive…I was helping him load a cabinate in his car and he says to me " I know you love Jesus… It’s all about Jesus" I said amen and thanked him…Hey lets face it there are those hot , cold and lukewarm in their faith around us all…Jesus knows who He has a relationship with Him…He will see a lot doing religious things till He returns, but to some He said depart, for I never “knew” them…Grace and peace to you dear saint in Christ…

 

[Hiskid1973]

some hav been baptized as infants AND gone thro the born-again thing. Apparently you aren’t one of them?

I know people like this…going as “christian” in their faith and living fare from God…Looked real good on Sunday, lived the rest of the week totally opposite…

 

[Hiskid1973]

true… but there is a difference between infant baptism… or mere baptism of any kind… .and being born again… filled w/ the Spirit… Being filled w/ the Spirit is NOT emotionalism as one poster seemed to be saying… Was it you??

anyhow… a lot of posters don’t seem to making that distinction…

I wasn’t water baptized til a year later after going to a christian festival and hearing
a teaching about it…There were hundreds of us baptized in a farm pond that day…I came out of the gate talking to my co workers about Jesus from day one…I have a girl at work give me a chick tract…I started thinking about my sins and the Holy Spirit took over from there…A week later I got up from that altar call and felt like lead was lifted from my shoulders…I flt so clean inside…I went home and laid in bed and felt like I was washed over and over in rivers of love…I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry…This lasted for hours…Then we come to a year later and my water baptism…I devoured the word after that…About a year s
after my water baptism I was reading about the Holy Spirit and fire and said Lord I want more.This is also where I learned about praying in the Spirit…Man it was like I was running on 12 volts and got hooked to 220…It gave me boldness to talk to others and pass out tracts…That was all close to forty years ago and I still have a burning passion for Jesus…Grace and peace to you…

The only thing that saddens me here is I get the feeling of being looked down here like I’m living on some second class faith and cannot mature into all that Christ desires because I am not a Catholic…It doesn’t bother me because I have experienced so much that the Lord has to offer and am strong and secure in my faith…Grace and peace to y’all…k

 

[Justin1982]

true… but there is a difference between infant baptism… or mere baptism of any kind… .and being born again… filled w/ the Spirit… Being filled w/ the Spirit is NOT emotionalism as one poster seemed to be saying… Was it you??

anyhow… a lot of posters don’t seem to making that distinction…

Infant Baptism should be done more as a promise for the parents to raise the child as a Catholic thereby continuing the child’s faith development.

 

[JonNC]

Infant Baptism should be done more as a promise for the parents to raise the child as a Catholic thereby continuing the child’s faith development.

From the Caholic Catechism

1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua), and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: “Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word.”

I’m not Catholic, but I believe what the Catholic Catechism says here: “**reborn **as sons of God”, “**regeneration **through water in the word”.

While I agree that parents, in faith, promise to bring their child up in the faith, the importance of the sacrament is infinitely greater than that for the person being baptized.

Jon

 

[fhansen]

I am a little unsure about how to answer…

hmmm… :coffeeread:

.
.

doesn’t do you any good-unless by born-again they’re meaning an experience of being convicted of sin and turning away from it and back to God. This, however, could at best only be the beginning of ones journey to heaven.

 

[Justin1982]

From the Caholic Catechism

I’m not Catholic, but I believe what the Catholic Catechism says here: “**reborn **as sons of God”, “**regeneration **through water in the word”.

While I agree that parents, in faith, promise to bring their child up in the faith, the importance of the sacrament is infinitely greater than that for the person being baptized.

Jon

Yes, the sacrament is infinitely more important for the individual. I agree with what you’re saying but without the parents taking on the responsibility, that Baptized infant is not going to stand much of a chance in this society to be a strong Christian. Baptism is only the start, it requires far more work to be a Catholic in good standing, thus it is extremely important for those parents to give that child a proper upbringing.

 

[JonNC]

Yes, the sacrament is infinitely more important for the individual. I agree with what you’re saying but without the parents taking on the responsibility, that Baptized infant is not going to stand much of a chance in this society to be a strong Christian. Baptism is only the start, it requires far more work to be a Catholic in good standing, thus it is extremely important for those parents to give that child a proper upbringing.

Agreed. It is also the responsibility of Godparents, and the parish/congregation that oversees their spiritual care.

Jon

 

[Dokimas]

The term “born again” appears only twice in the New Testament. In John 3:3-5, Jesus tells us how it happens – through water and the Spirit. That means baptism. It may or not be an emotional experience.

Peace be with you, Jim Dandy

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Joh 3:7 "Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
1Pe 1:23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,