it is required because as today’s scripture says Unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it can produce no fruit…
And scripture also says that we “die with Christ” through baptismit is required because as today’s scripture says Unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it can produce no fruit…
those who have never died and been reborn… well, i’ve seen some interesting “fruits” in thier lives… but I am thinking they aren’t exactly the fruits God wants…
i nver meant to imply that being born again was ALL one had to do to enter Heaven… I was born again when i committed a lot of my biggest mistakes/sins… and all the gunk those sins caused me needs to be washed off my soul…And scripture also says that we “die with Christ” through baptism
Please dont take my persistence with this as my attempt to degrade your experience. It is not in any way intended to be that. My intent is only to disagree with the statement that it is required that a person have a born-again experience to attain salvation. Not everyone who converted was like Paul with a miraculous alteration in every aspect. And even Paul, with his Born-Again experience (I wish I was that lucky… well, no I dont. I will take what God has given me) had to go into seclusion for 3 years before beginning his preaching.
FSC
Glad nothing was in my mouth when I read that…
Just trying to understand your point here. You are saying that you have to be born again, but not necessarily with all the drastic external trappings (sinners prayer, 100% life turnaround with immediate impact, etc.) but that it must effect a radical change in your INTENT, in your FOCUS: i.e. now your life is devoted to God and all your actions have at least the intent of giving glory to Him?
no, i wasn’t exactly saying that, but i don’t disagree with it… cuz i went thro this expeirence a long time ago and was not in Church (of any kind)… did NOT pray the sinner’s prayer… but my life did do a 180… my soul & heart did a 180…
i tend to think the former… but maybe i can only speak for myself? I don’t know… I tend to think that we must undergo … I’m thinking here…
Well, all i can say is that pepole need to undergo a radical change because original sin and actual sin and even the sins of others (sometimes especially that??) cause us to be filthy and messed up and etc… (i feel dirty after watching certain TV shows… which is why i don’t watch TV anymore… havn’t for sevrl yrs) I guess what i am saying is that being born again means being washed clean by the Holy Spirit… I feel this happening at Mass… and maybe this is the gradual process you are speaking of… So i guess it can be “gradual” but then… When Mass is over… well, we humans tend to get right back into our sinful ways… What i can say for sure about ME is that being born again was great but certain aspects of that experience only last about 2 yrs and then things began to get… weird… cuz i was not catechized. I didn’t know the faith… i didn’t have any guidance back then… so i fell into sin… Maybe not the huge sins like abortion, thank God… or whatever… but i got very lost… I’m thankful to be thinking of all this right now… reminds me of how NECESSARY the Church is… We DO need it to get to Heaven…I’ve been Catholic all my life (altho not too Catholic [Christian] at some times…
) so i don’t have any way of assessing your thing w/ Jesus… But i have been born again (or as the Church calls it filled w/ the Spirit)… But again, that was a LONG time ago and people need more than just that experience in order to be ready for Heaven, where there is no impure thing… no stain of sin. I have found that its taken YEARS for me to overcome certain sins… There for awhile, 4 example… i struggled w/ my body wanting … sensual gratification, i’ll call it… I’ve been celibate for many years and chaste for many (but somewhat less) yrs… it has been an uphill battle… or it WAS… i think i may have (key words) come to a point where my body… well, its kinda strange, actually… i thnk my body FINALLY got the picture that it wasn’t going to be gratified (that way)… and so now it doesn’t bug me much anymore… 
that may sound strange… but anyhow… i just don’t hardly think about that kind of thing anymore… thank God…it appears you haven’t read her diary… because St F didn’t have this kind of light bulb experience (that i am aware of). She actually was visited by Jesus and by angels…
No, I never read any kind of diary…I was channel surfing and heard someone talking about her and about her having a vision…Sounded to me like she had a powerful conversion experience…Jesus I trust in You…That’s what He wants to hear…Behold I stand at the door and knock…
so why aren’t you cathlic?
I have been doing very well just being a “christian” for almost 40 years…God is working in my life to make me into His image…All those who trust in Christ will be together with Him one day, Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant…It’s not the name on the door of the church you attend but those who love,trust and follow Him…
myself, i woudn’t be a devout Christian if it weren’t for the Roman C church…
That’s cool that you got committed to Christ there…I’ve heard and read many stories/testimonies like your happening at Protestant and Orthodox churches also…God knows where each of us needs to be to get our attention…We believemyself, i woudn’t be a devout Christian if it weren’t for the Roman C church…
i was really lost & messed up until one day i prayed the rosary… have no idea why i prayed it cuz i didn’t think it would do me ONE bit of good… Instead, i did a 180…
and eventually i came back to the Church, began to study its history & teachings… and now I am … insufferable…
you people outside the Church are missing out on a lot of wonderful things… like sitting b4 the Blessed Sacrament (preferably in total silence…) Then there’s the Mass where all of Heaven participates…