Do you know much about marriage tribunals.. (that can nullify a previous marriage)?

[BarbaraTherese]

i have felt the same way… In fact, i have been to churches recently where… some members just act like i am nuts… because i like to spend time alone with Jesus (a lot!!)… Since no one else in the parish seems to wnat to do that, thye think i have some kind of mental illness (I THINK they think that… I guess, technically, i don’t know… but i think it because of their behavior… some of them…). Actually, i suppose, technically, i do have a “mental illness” but i don’t like tht term. You probably don’t either? I think it conjures up a very bad image… and as i have said b4 on these forums, i believe (know) that everyone has a mental illness … Everyone is human, everyone is a sinner… No one had perfect parents… no one has a perfect life (though some, obviously are doing better, it seems, than others… ). Anyway, all this = “mental illness”…

I think that to give in to sin, to reject Christ, is the absolute worst mental illness there is… and by that definition, there are a lot of crazy people running around…

i have ptsd but any normal person who went through what i went throuhg (that caused it) would have it… So, i am “normal” to have ptsd…

Normal is another word i don’t like… doesn’t mean much…

Anyway… it is “groovy” (Is that word coming back into fashion?) to meet someone who has walked in my shoes… to some extent… (makes me feel less alone)… but i do pray for you…

God bless…

One can’t win em all, Distracted…but it sure is great to win a few - if we can even do that. “they have persecuted me and they will persecute you” Not might or perhaps or probably…but will! So to expect some form of persecution to some degree or other somewhere will happen. Our primary effort is to ensure that we are not the ones doing the persecuting of others:thumbsup:
Then there is that old childhood wisdom"sticks and stones will break my bones, but names can never hurt me"…unless we let them hurt us.
Thank you for keeping me in your prayers and you and yours are in mine, along with all CAF members, family and friends, and intentions…Blessings and my regards…Barb

 

[distracted]

Thank you for keeping me in your prayers and you and yours are in mine, along with all CAF members, family and friends, and intentions…Blessings and my regards…Barb

No problem…

just wondering if you are a cradle Catholic and also, if you care to share… was wondering how long you have had your… hmm… whatever you want to call it… your “issues”?

I had issues long before i had a clue that they were as bad as they are… Then they got worse when i went through this really bizarre thing some 12 yrs ago or so… I kinda lost my mind when that “thing” happened… (don’t like to talk about that AT ALL… because not many would understand… Not many have been through that kind of thing…).

God bless…

 

[distracted]

What did I write that warrants these questions?

you said people told you they were gay.

 

[Phemie]

you said people told you they were gay.

That has nothing to do with the comments quoted.

But, for the record, in the circles I travel I run into homosexuals and lesbians all the time. Don’t need to be told who is and who isn’t. Well aware that two of my former pastors were/are gay. One I know because he wasn’t celibate – or discreet, the other I know because he announced it to all at a meeting.

 

[distracted]

That has nothing to do with the comments quoted.

But, for the record, in the circles I travel I run into homosexuals and lesbians all the time. Don’t need to be told who is and who isn’t. Well aware that two of my former pastors were/are gay. One I know because he wasn’t celibate – or discreet, the other I know because he announced it to all at a meeting.

i could dress up in a President Bush outfit… wouldn’t make me him…

 

[Phemie]

i could dress up in a President Bush outfit… wouldn’t make me him…

So let me see if I understand what you’re saying: people say they’re gay and suffer abuse and hatred because of it but they, what, say these things just for fun but they’re not really gay??

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense: let’s see what I can say to make my father kick me out of the house and my mother say that I’m dead to her – I know, I’ll tell them I’m gay! And to keep the joke going I’ll try to kill myself. Yeah, great joke.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

And Peace to you also!

just wondering if you are a cradle Catholic and also, if you care to share… was wondering how long you have had your… hmm… whatever you want to call it… your “issues”?

Yes, I am a cradle Catholic, raised in a Catholic home and educated all my life by nuns. In primary school by the St. Joseph Sisters and in college by Dominican nuns.
Not to sure what you mean by “issues” but if it is mental illness (Bipolar), I had a bad breakdown at 28yrs and never recovered really from that, although the diagnosis of Bipolar did not arrive until about 6 years later. Firstly they said it was paranoid schizophrenia, then borderline personality and then once they realized I was religious, it was hysterical personality. Then elapsed years where they said they did not know what was wrong only that I was having psychotic epsides, then when my anxiety and panic attacks reacted favourably to Lithium (I am now allergic to it), they diagnosed Bipolar and that has stuck.
One psychiatrist (a highly respected one in Sth.Aust.) said it was impossible that I had Bipolar nor a mental illness per se at all. I did not continue to see him, however, as he regarded my Faith as something I needed to get over - a pathology. But I stick with the Bipolar as it simplifies a very long and very complex story. Makes things easier.
My ‘ex husband’ - married 15 years in The Church - was told I would be a cot case for the rest of my life.
As I said to a psychiatrist once:

He said “Humpty dumpty sat on a wall and he had a great fall and all the kings horses and all the kings men could not put humpty together again”
I replied “Do not discount The King”. And The King put me together again.

My ‘marriage’ was annulled by The Church some 20 years ago. And I have lived alone since. There were times when I did rent out a room to someone in need but it never worked out from a spiritual perspective. Nowadays my son who lives interestate is the only one to ever stay here and that is only for short periods to visit or catch up with mates here.
I never discuss my grounds for the annullment out of respect for my two sons (in their forties, one is a fostered child from 8yrs old) and because their Dad is their Dad and will always be so. For many years we have had a sound friendship as well as his now wife.

I had issues long before i had a clue that they were as bad as they are… Then they got worse when i went through this really bizarre thing some 12 yrs ago or so… I kinda lost my mind when that “thing” happened… (don’t like to talk about that AT ALL… because not many would understand… Not many have been through that kind of thing…).

I had a major life shock and trauma that first caused me to breakdown at 28yrs. Back then (I am now 62yrs) I dont think, ptsd was recognized - unsure. Perhpas if it had been recognized, that would have been included in my diagnoses possibly.

Barb

 

[distracted]

raised in a Catholic home and educated all my life by nuns. In primary school by the St. Joseph Sisters and in college by Dominican nuns.

Wow - And you’re STILL Catholic??

Just (kind of ) kidding… but a lot of people i have known who went to Catholic schools when young turned anti-Catholic… or semi- anti- C. I guess i was starting to think it was the usual trend…

Not to sure what you mean by “issues” but if it is mental illness (Bipolar),

i just prefer “issues” to the term “mental illness”… (because i want people to think that I… who may (or may not) have one of those… am not nuts…

he regarded my Faith as something I needed to get over - a pathology.

your shrink was right… Being Catholic IS a pathology… in the eyes of the world… (and sometimes even to us Catholics… who have to deal with… among other things… OTHER Catholics!!!: …

Just… (kind of) kidding…

My ‘ex husband’ - married 15 years in The Church - was told I would be a cot case for the rest of my life.:

what is a cot case?? Is that the same as “nut case”?
Oh… maybe i get it… on the shrink’s cot for the rest of your life???

I replied “Do not discount The King”. And The King put me together again.

The King was/is the only one who can help me… I’m beyond (human) help…

My ‘marriage’ was annulled by The Church some 20 years ago. And I have lived alone since.

i hear you… i have also lived alone for a very long time… Not quite that long… but LONG… (never married though…). I can’t get along with anyone but God … and i have even had a few rounds with Him… It kinda turned out like this, though: :banghead: Actually it is not so much God the father, but JESUS that i get along with…

I dont think, ptsd was recognized - unsure. Perhpas if it had been recognized, that would have been included in my diagnoses possibly.

Barb

yeah, when i talked to my shrink years ago… he didn’t seem to wanto to focus on the ptsd for some reason, though he acknowledge it was part of the problem. I think it is the whole problem more or less… Anyway, he seemed to want to focus on the fact tht i try to avoid social situations…

My thought was: “Huh? And…? Uh… Your point would be?”

Who was that guy who once said, “Hell is other people”???

I’m with him…

God bless…

(You are not hell to me… yet… )

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Wow - And you’re STILL Catholic??

…

Just (kind of ) kidding… but a lot of people i have known who went to Catholic schools when young turned anti-Catholic… or semi- anti- C. I guess i was starting to think it was the usual trend… i just prefer “issues” to the term “mental illness”… (because i want people to think that I… who may (or may not) have one of those… am not nuts… your shrink was right… Being Catholic IS a pathology… in the eyes of the world… (and sometimes even to us Catholics… who have to deal with… among other things… OTHER Catholics!!!: …

Yeah, I knew you were jesting. I’m still dinky dye Catholic, although I’ve had my moments, just never quite jumped into the abyss. Good is Good. And some are so hopeless, He has to keep a tight reign and a very short lead.
I have a philosophy sort of, Water. If they call me names, then that can’t hurt me, but if they come after me with sticks and stones…I’m gone! I first fell ill when I was 28yrs old when mental illness was a complete disgrace…so here I am at 62yrs of age and calling me names has nowhere near the effect and affect it once did…I got used to much especially in the early years of Bipolar. And I read in St. Teresa of Avila, that if people speak unfairly negatively about you, just reflect on what they could say about you justly, if they knew YOUR REAL faults and failings, and then one has real cause to be very thankful to The Lord that they do not. I really liked that!!!

Just… (kind of) kidding… what is a cot case?? Is that the same as “nut case”?
Oh… maybe i get it… on the shrink’s cot for the rest of your life???
The King was/is the only one who can help me… I’m beyond (human) help…

Yep, “cot case” and “nut case” would be interchangeable, although “cot case” also implies no hope of recovery and totally incapacited, disabled, a complete write off, off the planet 100percent and all of the time.

i hear you… i have also lived alone for a very long time… Not quite that long… but LONG… (never married though…).

Marriage was a complete mistake…but I rejoice in my sons and would not have them unless I had married. One is actually my foster son and my ‘ex’ and I began to foster him when he was 8yrs old. He regards me as truly his Mum, and he is to me truly my son. He is now 46yrs.

I can’t get along with anyone but God … and i have even had a few rounds with Him… It kinda turned out like this, though: :banghead: Actually it is not so much God the father, but JESUS that i get along with…

I went to see a Jesuit theologian once connected to research I was doing…and one subject led to another and one of the things he asked me was “How do you think of the Three Persons in the Blessed Trinity”. I replied that I get along great with The Father and The Holy Spirit…it’s Jesus I watch, he sure did call a spade a spade and was not a man to mess around with. He laughed…but I meant it.

yeah, when i talked to my shrink years ago… he didn’t seem to wanto to focus on the ptsd for some reason, though he acknowledge it was part of the problem. I think it is the whole problem more or less… Anyway, he seemed to want to focus on the fact tht i try to avoid social situations…

Mmmm I dont avoid certainly social situations and I enjoy socializing and really love people. But if I am having a bad day, I tend not to want to have visitors and to be left alone until it passes, not that it always works out that way. Did you ever ask your doc why he did not want to focus on the ptsd? I can be quite challenging with my spiritual director and doctors, including my psychiatrist if I dont understand something (asking for clarification) or if I dont agree with something stated. Avoiding social situations with some mental problems is part and parcel of the problem itself…and a symptom rather than the essence of the problem. From my personal experience anyway with some sufferers.
My psychiatrst of years standing and the one before her have been the best I have ever had. With both, they respect what I have to say and listen and decisions are mutually arrived at rather than my doc telling me what to do and what not to do…unless of course it is absolutely necessary.

My thought was: “Huh? And…? Uh… Your point would be?”

Apologies, I dont quite understand what you mean, Water?

Who was that guy who once said, “Hell is other people”???

I’m with him…

Dunno, but it sure can be true! I read once that one cannot go insane alone (exaggeration), it takes others to drive one insane. And an awful lot of sound truth in that.

God bless…

(You are not hell to me… yet… )

Oh, then I am not as skilled as I once was…although give me more time and you may find that I match all concepts of ‘demon from hell’, and in fact exceed them …warm regards…Barb.
PS Apologies, Water…I had to delete some smileys as only eight are allowed, and being me, of course yours were delted.

.

 

[1ke]

i would like to know more about how the Catholic Church nullifies a marriage (basically saying there was no marriage in the 1st place).

The Church doesn’t “nullify” a marriage. The Church can declare what is already so by nature of a defect of intent, consent, or form.

I know that if a couple is married by Justice of the P, they are not married in eyes of God.

If they are not Catholics, then your statement is untrue. The are absolutely married and their marriage is valid.

But what are some other times when marriage is not valid?

I would suggest you get the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster and read it thoroughly. It will help you understand the Church’s teaching on marriage and nullity better than random posts on an internet forum can.

I have heard people say that the Catholic Church’s ways of nullifying marriages is just another way of granting divorces…

The Church does not “nullify” marriages.

And, of course, the people saying this don’t know what they are talking about.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Quoting 1ke

The Church does not “nullify” marriages.

And, of course, the people saying this don’t know what they are talking about.

Hi 1ke…Not too sure what you may mean by the above, but I found the following
in New Advent.
newadvent.org/cathen/04675a.htm

The Defender of the Matrimonial Tie is an official whose duty is to defend the marriage-bond in the procedure prescribed for the hearing of matrimonial causes which involve the validity*** or nullity*** of a marriage already contracted.

Sometimes I can use a term in common use, but not mean to state the very strict definition in Canon Law, rather the common understanding. For example, there is a strict defintion of a “sister” and a “nun”. But in common use is “nun” for either a sister or nun, and so often I will use this common use term (nun) for both sisters and nuns, though strictly speaking in Canon Law terms I may not be correct.
Thank you for sharing the book recommendation on annulments.

Blessings and my regards…Barb

 

[1ke]

Quoting 1ke

Hi 1ke…Not too sure what you may mean by the above,

The Church doesn’t nullify anything.

The Church can only evaluate the evidence to determine whether the marriage is or is not null. It does not make a marriage null.

The quote from New Advent does not contradict what I stated.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Quoting 1ke

The Church can only evaluate the evidence to determine whether the marriage is or is not null. It does not make a marriage null.

Sorry! Now I can insight your meaning. All The Church does when a marriage is annulled is to state that a valid Catholic marriage did not occur in the first place - at the time of actual marraige.

Blessings and my regards…Barb