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almost2
Guest
Do you know people who pray in tongues?
What do they think about it?
What do they think about it?
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Maximilian75
Guest
I do…
And they don’t really ‘think’ about it, per se. It just happens when the Spirit wills it.
And they don’t really ‘think’ about it, per se. It just happens when the Spirit wills it.
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adamhovey1988
Guest
Not that I know of, but I don’t have a problem with them if they are legitimately praying in tongues, and not just yelling gibberish.
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Medawlinno
Guest
Apparently due to length, this has to be done in two parts so:
1 of 2
Not to open up a can of worms, but…
The “tongues” Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians are producing today is an entirely self-created phenomenon. It is non-cognitive non-language utterance; random free vocalization based upon a subset of the existing sounds of the speaker’s native language, and any other language(s) the speaker may be familiar with or have had contact with. It is typically characterized by repetitive syllables, plays on sound patterns, and over-simplification of syllable structure. “Tongues” may be either spoken or sung. Due to the nature of how it is produced, no two people will ever have the same “tongue”.
There is nothing that these ‘speakers’ are producing that cannot be explained in natural linguistic terms.
Conversely, there are no Biblical references to ‘tongues” that cannot be explained with respect to real language.
Early Pentecostal/Charismatic ‘tongues-speakers’ looked for Scriptural references for what they were doing, since their original supposition (xenoglossy) definitely wasn’t it; however, Scriptural references were simply not there. The resulting implicit theology was not a synthesis of revelation and philosophy, but rather a synthesis of trying to make sense of the “tongues experience” in light of the narrative of Scripture.
In other words, a way to legitimize the modern phenomenon by ‘proofing‘ it in the Bible, despite the obvious overwhelming absence therein of anything resembling modern tongues – call it what you will, but the result was a virtual re-definition of Scripture with respect to the understanding/justification of modern “tongues” for this group of Christians.
Two of the best examples of this classic re-definition are the phrase “praying in the Spirit”, and the word “tongue(s)” itself.
1 of 2
Not to open up a can of worms, but…
The “tongues” Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians are producing today is an entirely self-created phenomenon. It is non-cognitive non-language utterance; random free vocalization based upon a subset of the existing sounds of the speaker’s native language, and any other language(s) the speaker may be familiar with or have had contact with. It is typically characterized by repetitive syllables, plays on sound patterns, and over-simplification of syllable structure. “Tongues” may be either spoken or sung. Due to the nature of how it is produced, no two people will ever have the same “tongue”.
There is nothing that these ‘speakers’ are producing that cannot be explained in natural linguistic terms.
Conversely, there are no Biblical references to ‘tongues” that cannot be explained with respect to real language.
Early Pentecostal/Charismatic ‘tongues-speakers’ looked for Scriptural references for what they were doing, since their original supposition (xenoglossy) definitely wasn’t it; however, Scriptural references were simply not there. The resulting implicit theology was not a synthesis of revelation and philosophy, but rather a synthesis of trying to make sense of the “tongues experience” in light of the narrative of Scripture.
In other words, a way to legitimize the modern phenomenon by ‘proofing‘ it in the Bible, despite the obvious overwhelming absence therein of anything resembling modern tongues – call it what you will, but the result was a virtual re-definition of Scripture with respect to the understanding/justification of modern “tongues” for this group of Christians.
Two of the best examples of this classic re-definition are the phrase “praying in the Spirit”, and the word “tongue(s)” itself.
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Medawlinno
Guest
2 of 2 -
The Greek word translated “pray in” can have several different meanings/nuances. It can mean “by means of,” “with the help of,” “in the sphere of,” and “in connection to.” Praying in the Spirit does not refer to the words we are saying. Rather, it refers to how we are praying.
In the three places the phrase is used (Corinthians, Ephesians, and Jude), there is absolutely no reference to ‘languages’ in connection with the phrase. Therefore, “praying in the Spirit” should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will. In Pentecostal/Charismatic parlance however, the phase has come to be equated with ‘pray in tongues’. A reading into Scripture of something that was just never there.
The word “tongue(s)” is simply a more archaic word for (real) “language(s)”, nothing more. Replace “tongue(s)” with “language(s)” in these passages and the whole modern Pentecostal/Charismatic concept of “tongues” begins to become difficult to posit – “language(s)” sounds a lot less mysterious. In Pentecostal/Charismatic parlance however, the phase has come to be equated with the modern concept of “tongues-speech”. Again, a reading into Scripture something that was never there.
“Tongues” is simply not what its ‘speakers’ want/need it to be.
Modern tongues is just another tool, like chanting or meditation, etc.; a way by which one may establish a closer relationship with the divine and strengthen one’s spiritual path. In this respect (i.e. as the tool it is), it can be quite powerful to accomplish this goal. Known by many different names, “tongues”, or more accurately “glossolalia”, is practiced by many cultures and religious beliefs from all over the world; it is relatively new to Christianity and certainly not unique to it.
The Greek word translated “pray in” can have several different meanings/nuances. It can mean “by means of,” “with the help of,” “in the sphere of,” and “in connection to.” Praying in the Spirit does not refer to the words we are saying. Rather, it refers to how we are praying.
In the three places the phrase is used (Corinthians, Ephesians, and Jude), there is absolutely no reference to ‘languages’ in connection with the phrase. Therefore, “praying in the Spirit” should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will. In Pentecostal/Charismatic parlance however, the phase has come to be equated with ‘pray in tongues’. A reading into Scripture of something that was just never there.
The word “tongue(s)” is simply a more archaic word for (real) “language(s)”, nothing more. Replace “tongue(s)” with “language(s)” in these passages and the whole modern Pentecostal/Charismatic concept of “tongues” begins to become difficult to posit – “language(s)” sounds a lot less mysterious. In Pentecostal/Charismatic parlance however, the phase has come to be equated with the modern concept of “tongues-speech”. Again, a reading into Scripture something that was never there.
“Tongues” is simply not what its ‘speakers’ want/need it to be.
Modern tongues is just another tool, like chanting or meditation, etc.; a way by which one may establish a closer relationship with the divine and strengthen one’s spiritual path. In this respect (i.e. as the tool it is), it can be quite powerful to accomplish this goal. Known by many different names, “tongues”, or more accurately “glossolalia”, is practiced by many cultures and religious beliefs from all over the world; it is relatively new to Christianity and certainly not unique to it.
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
yes, almost everyone in my Charismatic Catholic prayer group.
hmm what do they think? its a gift and a method of prayer , either sung or said
hmm what do they think? its a gift and a method of prayer , either sung or said
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
its a good thing we are discussing the Catholic church and not these others you listThe “tongues” Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians are producing to
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Deditus_Domina
Guest
I do and I have.
The people I know who have are almost all associated with charismatic prayer groups. An awful lot of it seems put on or habitual. They seldom pray aloud without breaking out into their tongues. I have heard a fair amount of criticism from them about the tongues of their fellow prayer warriors. About half of the people I know are prideful of their gift of tongues and have a feeling of superiority for possessing that gift. The leaders of the prayer groups here feel that all priests should be able to speak in tongues and that priests who do are holier than those who don’t.
I have spoken a tongue while in private prayer usually while walking outdoors. It sounds to me like a real language. It occurred to me that it sounds rather Algonquin. I have heard Algonquin languages on 3 or 4 occasions. I don’t know whether my brain stored the sounds and plays them occasionally or if it is God. I tend not to think about it. I also know one religious brother who has but doesn’t regularly and won’t talk about it.
The people I know who have are almost all associated with charismatic prayer groups. An awful lot of it seems put on or habitual. They seldom pray aloud without breaking out into their tongues. I have heard a fair amount of criticism from them about the tongues of their fellow prayer warriors. About half of the people I know are prideful of their gift of tongues and have a feeling of superiority for possessing that gift. The leaders of the prayer groups here feel that all priests should be able to speak in tongues and that priests who do are holier than those who don’t.
I have spoken a tongue while in private prayer usually while walking outdoors. It sounds to me like a real language. It occurred to me that it sounds rather Algonquin. I have heard Algonquin languages on 3 or 4 occasions. I don’t know whether my brain stored the sounds and plays them occasionally or if it is God. I tend not to think about it. I also know one religious brother who has but doesn’t regularly and won’t talk about it.
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whyeyeman
Guest
You shouldn’t pray in tongues. It’s a Protestant invention. The “gift of tongues” given to the apostles was the ability to understand foreign languages and was granted to elthe early church to help evangelisation.
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
out come all the old wives tales
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whyeyeman
Guest
Charismatic catholicism is a Protestant infiltration. Nobody prayed in tongues before some Protestants invented fairly recently.
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
you might be surprised to learn one of the original Catholic Charismatics was/is. on CAF.
And a couole of times she spoke of what happened that weekend . Do a CAF search. hopefully that survived the move.
And a couole of times she spoke of what happened that weekend . Do a CAF search. hopefully that survived the move.
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whyeyeman
Guest
I don’t understand.
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Kaliaa
Guest
I assume that you are aware that the Catholic Charismatic Renewal has been approved the vatican? I’m certain that they were aware that speaking and praying in tongues is part of this renewal. If they had reservations or objections I’m sure that it would have been noted by at least one of the three.
Pope Francis
Popes Paul VI and St. John Paul II
As far as Fr. Gruner is concerned you might want to read up a bit on him and his agenda. EWTN would be a good source.
Pope Francis
Popes Paul VI and St. John Paul II
As far as Fr. Gruner is concerned you might want to read up a bit on him and his agenda. EWTN would be a good source.
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whyeyeman
Guest
Wether or not you like Father Gruner or John Vennari doesn’t change the content of the video.
The Vatican has approved lots of dodgy things throughout the centuries. Do you want to bring back the death penalty for heresy, for example?
The Vatican has approved lots of dodgy things throughout the centuries. Do you want to bring back the death penalty for heresy, for example?
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Kaliaa
Guest
My thoughts about Fr. Gruner are immaterial. However, I invite you to read the EWTN article so that you are more informed about him.
EWTN: Fr. Gruner
If I have to choose, however, I’m going to take 3 popes over Fr. Gruner.
EWTN: Fr. Gruner
If I have to choose, however, I’m going to take 3 popes over Fr. Gruner.
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whyeyeman
Guest
I know who he is. That doesn’t change what he says in this video. Please watch it.
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guanophore
Guest
Actually, the beauty of praying in tongues is that one does not have to think about it.Do you know people who pray in tongues?
What do they think about it?
2For anyone who speaks in a tonguea does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit…Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues…For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding… I Cor 14
And the Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness. For example, we don’t know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words. Rom 8:26
It is a way of surrendering oneself to the Spirit within, so that the Spirit can pray through the person. It is a prayer from the heart, and not the mind.
I did not find a reference on this passage. Apparently it is a source attempting to debunk the practice.Not to open up a can of worms, but…
You may not realize this, but the New Testament was written by, for, and about Catholics. This would not be in the Bible if it was not Catholic.You shouldn’t pray in tongues. It’s a Protestant invention. The “gift of tongues” given to the apostles was the ability to understand foreign languages and was granted to elthe early church to help evangelisation.
http://www.nsc-chariscenter.org/
People tend to be afraid of things they cannot control, or that are “logical”. One must surrender oneself the Spirit in order to experience the charismatic gifts. To deny this is to deny what is in Scripture, the Catechism, and the history of the Church.
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Zaccheus
Guest
I pray in the Spirit. So do all the members of my (Catholic Charismatic) prayer group.
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Zaccheus
Guest
ZaccheusThe “tongues” Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians are producing today is an entirely self-created phenomenon
The existence of counterfeit money doesn’t prove that all money is counterfeit.
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