Do you need to know who is bad before you work with them?

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Do you have to know if someone is somehow bad so as to avoid their company and thereby not contribute to their sins?

I don’t think so, yet I do think one should not cooperate with evil -but benefiting someone who is bad is evil because it keeps bad people alive? But If one was consistent with this application then you could never associate with anyone and plus keeping yourself alive would be evil since you are guaranteed to not be perfectly good in your life (since there is no time where someone doesn’t have at least a venial sin).

I will have to rethink this position so that’s why I’m asking.
 
Surely you’re not saying that bad people don’t have a right to live, to earn a living, to have shelter and clothing and food… surely you’re not saying that? Or that they don’t have a right to the love and prayers and support of the Church to help them move from bad to good? Surely you wouldn’t be saying that? Would the Good Shepherd say that?
 
Surely you’re not saying that bad people don’t have a right to live, to earn a living, to have shelter and clothing and food… surely you’re not saying that? Or that they don’t have a right to the love and prayers and support of the Church to help them move from bad to good? Surely you wouldn’t be saying that? Would the Good Shepherd say that?
Would you feel the same way if the OP is talking about an abortion clinic, or a company that funds abortion clinics?
 
I work with someone who used to work in an abortion clinic. She still supports abortion. She lets her teenaged child do drugs and get drunk despite being rather underage, she has made it quite clear should her very sexually active child get prego it’ll be off to teh abortion clinic to visit her former colleagues.

I get on rather well with this woman. We talk about cats and all sorts of interesting things.

My question is if we avoid all people who do such evil things, or have done such evil things, how are we to show them what Christ can do for them? How are we to show them through our own lives an example of christian charity and love?

If anything, people like her need our love and friendship the most.

Granted, we are all sinners. I worked with a SDA who thought I was going straight to hell for being Catholic, yet we were still friends, why? Because I wanted to help correct his scriptural flaws and he wanted to konw why I was Catholic.
 
I work with someone who used to work in an abortion clinic. She still supports abortion. She lets her teenaged child do drugs and get drunk despite being rather underage, she has made it quite clear should her very sexually active child get prego it’ll be off to teh abortion clinic to visit her former colleagues.
(Edited) You should call CPS on this woman. She does her child no favors.
I get on rather well with this woman. We talk about cats and all sorts of interesting things.
Well at least she likes cats.
My question is if we avoid all people who do such evil things, or have done such evil things, how are we to show them what Christ can do for them? How are we to show them through our own lives an example of christian charity and love?
Don’t people need to find and accept God on their own?
If anything, people like her need our love and friendship the most.

Granted, we are all sinners. I worked with a SDA who thought I was going straight to hell for being Catholic, yet we were still friends, why? Because I wanted to help correct his scriptural flaws and he wanted to know why I was Catholic.
Different strokes for different folks I guess. You should still report this woman to CPS. Underage drug use is not cool…
 
(Edited) You should call CPS on this woman. She does her child no favors.
They already know and apparently they aren’t interested. The teen tends to do the drugs when they live with their father.
Don’t people need to find and accept God on their own?
Then why the need for any sort of Church.

Yes, people will find God on their own in their own way, but the Church and the example of Christians will get them on the path generally.
 
Would you feel the same way if the OP is talking about an abortion clinic, or a company that funds abortion clinics?
OP referred to keeping bad people alive, not keeping bad corporations in business.
 
Do you have to know if someone is somehow bad so as to avoid their company and thereby not contribute to their sins?
The question makes little sense to me. Being in the company of sinners does not necessarily mean you’ve contributed to their sins. If this were true, Christ would have to had to “avoid” the company of, well, everyone else excepting His Blessed Mother so as to not contribute to their sins.

Also, your reference to “someone is somehow bad” is a bit ambiguous. What do you mean? Aren’t we all “somehow bad?”

Whose position are you attempting to convey? Perhaps it would help to cite a reference.
 
OP referred to keeping bad people alive, not keeping bad corporations in business.
Yeah, I was taking an extreme position. I was wondering if anyone would go so far as to not hire or support people who work in an abortion clinic.
 
Then why the need for any sort of Church.
Catholicism directly tells people how to interpret the bible and their faith. To do this, directions are given at church. Isn’t not going to mass also a sin? I’m not sure of other Christianity sects.
 
The question makes little sense to me. Being in the company of sinners does not necessarily mean you’ve contributed to their sins. If this were true, Christ would have to had to “avoid” the company of, well, everyone else excepting His Blessed Mother so as to not contribute to their sins.

Also, your reference to “someone is somehow bad” is a bit ambiguous. What do you mean? Aren’t we all “somehow bad?”

Whose position are you attempting to convey? Perhaps it would help to cite a reference.
As for the necessity of causing someone to sin, I was thinking that manA is good company to manB and so on until someone is nice to manD who is a sinner. Now being nice provides pleasure to the receiver and this keeps them from being demoralized to the point of death. In as much as it causes him to live it causes him to sin. So in as much as niceness causes evil niceness is evil. But if everyone is a sinner this is especially true, and so just by being in the company of a sinner you are contributing to their sins.
(and indeed, all company is good company, since if you weren’t good company, then no one would ever meet you. But you are always met by people, so you are in some way good company.)

As for “someone is somehow bad”, I meant to signify “someone who has at least a venial sin.” And indeed aren’t we all somehow bad which means if I’m logical, then that implies radical separation.
 
Sorry, that last post doesn’t make much sense either.

Here’s my point -just by being in the company of sinners causes them to sin because sinners wouldn’t be in your company unless it accomplished some one of their ends. If I argue with you, it is for an end that I want to accomplish. Therefore, If I want to position my self next to you (to be in your company) and I am a sinner then I am sinner who wants to accomplish my end by being next to you. But if you help me accomplish my ends, then you are helping me live my life since life is a succession of ends.But I am always not without some sin, so my life is not without sin. So you are helping live my sinful life by just being around me. So by doing this you are cooperating with my sin.

I think that is more pellucid.
 
Catholicism directly tells people how to interpret the bible and their faith. To do this, directions are given at church.
And from God directly in prayer, and from anything written by the saints, and from any form of Christian art, and from natural law, and… 😛
 
As for the necessity of causing someone to sin, I was thinking that manA is good company to manB and so on until someone is nice to manD who is a sinner. Now being nice provides pleasure to the receiver and this keeps them from being demoralized to the point of death. In as much as it causes him to live it causes him to sin. So in as much as niceness causes evil niceness is evil. But if everyone is a sinner this is especially true, and so just by being in the company of a sinner you are contributing to their sins.
(and indeed, all company is good company, since if you weren’t good company, then no one would ever meet you. But you are always met by people, so you are in some way good company.)

As for “someone is somehow bad”, I meant to signify “someone who has at least a venial sin.” And indeed aren’t we all somehow bad which means if I’m logical, then that implies radical separation.
Okay, first of all, it is not up to you to determine if someone is “bad.” That is not your right. It is God’s alone. God tells us to “love thy neighbor.” Our ministry is to live as examples of how Christianity fulfills our lives. We cannot be examples if we do not associate with other people.

Note how I said, “other people.” I did not say, “if we do not associate with sinners.” The reason why I did not say the latter is because we are all sinners. Some sins are more socially acceptable than others, and it is easy to look down on someone who does something that we would never imagine doing, but it is not up to us to determine whether someone is bad or good, or who is better. Due to people’s different life experiences, it is much easier for some to be socially upright Christians, but that doesn’t necessarily make them “better” than those who are exhibiting behaviors that are less socially acceptable.

Instead of asking your question, you should be asking, “What am I doing wrong, and how can I improve?” Don’t concern yourself with other people’s sins. Concern yourself with how you can be a loving and positive influence. Someday, that person may come to you for help. Become the person that she can come to. If she doesn’t someday confide in you and subtly question you about your beliefs, someone else may.
 
As for the necessity of causing someone to sin, I was thinking that manA buys something from manB and so on until someone buys from manD who is a sinner. Now buying something provides income to the seller. Assuming this chain of purchases it seems that manA has provided the funds for the sins of manD (since man D has an income by virtue of man A’s purchase. But if everyone is a sinner this is especially true, and so just by being in the company of a sinner you are contributing to their sins.
The Church does not teach, as you state above, that by being in the company of a sinner you are contributing to their sins. That is an incorrect interpretation of Catholic moral theology. For instance, Jesus taught us to “render unto Caesar” the taxes due to Caesar, yet by doing so, under your interpretation, we are reponsible for contributing the the sins of Ceasar, right?

It is true that things we do or say may cause others, in their turn, to act. What is our responsibility? What we do or say can influence the actions of others. When our actions lead others to do evil, it is called “scandal” by Catholic teaching.

There are two general types of our actions that influence others: (1) Acts that we do which we know will influence others, and (2) actions whose effects on others we do not know, and which might or might not reasonably guess.

(1) Conscious occasion of evil
With the first type, one of two things will have to be true, either: (a) I know that my action will influence another person’s action and I will (intend) that that should be the case; or (b) I know that this will happen, but I do not intend that it should–rather, I merely allow it.

(1) (a) Direct conscious occasion of evil
In the case of (1)(a), “know and intend” – It can be an instance of willingly causing another’s evil action as a *end (i.e. goal, objective), that is, I have no further purpose in mind. Or, it may be that I do have a further purpose in mind, as when I want to gain something (e.g. money) by willingly causing another’s evil action, which is to cause another’s evil action as a means. *

(1) (b) Indirect conscious occasion of evil
In the case of (2), “know but not intend” – although I do not will (intend) that my actions cause another’s evil act, I do recognize that they are likely to do so.

***(2) Non-conscious occasion of evil ***
This is the situation where I do not know or recognize as unlikely (perhaps, may merely guess) that my acts may cause other people to be influenced into doing something evil. For instance, someone sees me out to lunch with a woman from work, and begins to spread gossip about how I am cheating on my wife. I have no idea that my action would have the results that it had, nor did I think it likely.

Morality of each of these

For direct, conscious occasions of evil, I am completely responsible for these. I do intend the evil action on the other person’s par, whether as an end or as a means. My action is immoral, for intending evil is precisely what is meant by immorality.

For indirect, conscious occasions of evil, I may or may not be responsible for the other person’s action (and so I may or may not be morally guilty). This is the sort of situation where we must use the Principle of Double Effectto judge whether or not our action is morally licit.

For non-conscious occasions of sin, if the other person is led to do evil in such a case sheerly because of his or her own malice, then I have no responsibility for the subbsequent evil action; the person could and should know better. However, when the other person is led by weakness, youthfulness, etc. something else needs to be considered. Charity demands that, when possible, we refrain from words or deeds that would be a source of damage to the weak. In this situation, the Principle of Double Effect is used to judge whether or not our action is morally licit.

The above is a summary of the teaching from my ethics professor from decades past, Fr. Martin D. O’Keefe, S.J., of blessed memory, from his text Known from the Things That Are.
 
Sorry, that last post doesn’t make much sense either.

Here’s my point -just by being in the company of sinners causes them to sin because sinners wouldn’t be in your company unless it accomplished some one of their ends. If I argue with you, it is for an end that I want to accomplish. Therefore, If I want to position my self next to you (to be in your company) and I am a sinner then I am sinner who wants to accomplish my end by being next to you. But if you help me accomplish my ends, then you are helping me live my life since life is a succession of ends.But I am always not without some sin, so my life is not without sin. So you are helping live my sinful life by just being around me. So by doing this you are cooperating with my sin.

I think that is more pellucid.
I think this confuses me more. However, I think what you want to know is what Catholic moral theology is regarding what is and is not morally licit with regard to cooperation with evil. See my above post and let me know if that’s what you were looking for.
 
I think this confuses me more. However, I think what you want to know is what Catholic moral theology is regarding what is and is not morally licit with regard to cooperation with evil. See my above post and let me know if that’s what you were looking for.
I was looking for a different answer, let me hopefully dispel this confusion once and for all.

Say, that I want to meet someone. By virtue of that someone existing and being in the place where I want him to be in order to meet him, he is helping me meet my end of meeting him. Now life is a succession of such ends (life is me wanting to go to x location, or to do y thing, or meet z person…). Also, in as much as someone helps one end of mine, he helps my other ends (End: I want to meet this guy and then, go to watch a movie). In this latter example the guy meets the first end, and this causes me to accomplish the last end. But if this last end is bad then the first guy helps my end by having met me. But we all know we’re sinners so all the meetings and such that we make are causes of evil. Note my use of the word “cause”. I count as a cause anything that disposes the nature of things towards a certain effect. So in this sense, cause means not only me doing x action and creating y effect but it also includes my very existence as something that disposes me towards eventually generating y effect.
 
And from God directly in prayer, and from anything written by the saints, and from any form of Christian art, and from natural law, and… 😛
How you interpret these things is not important compared to how the church tells you to interpret these things. This is one of the key differences I see versus other Christian sects. You can debate, but when the Pope makes a decree it’s set in stone.
 
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