Do you practice NFP?

[maria29]

I thought ‘Mom of Ten’ put it quite nicely: my husband and I also have surrendered our fertility to God, but mainly out of frustration with NFP (no-one could ever help us p(name removed by moderator)oint ovulation, to the point where it was said I was ‘annovulatory’…yet I have 2 children, besides a few miscarriages). I make no value-judgment on anyone using NFP…but I must admit: for us it’s a lot nicer NOT checking my cycle and abstaining…when we want to be intimate, we are…and if I get pregnant, so be it. It’s given us a lot of peace and we prefer it this way. I think a lot of NFP users do get a bit defensive ‘It’s okayed by the Church, look…here are examples from the Cathechism or some document’. GREAT…but that’s not what we (the non-NFP-users) are saying, all we’re saying is ‘We prefer just to let nature, and God, take its course, and we’re happy with that decision’…Doesn’t mean others have to…

By using NFP we’re saying the same thing too. I guess that’s what I don’t get. Unless we’re saying that God isn’t powerful enough a baby can occur even using NFP.

Even using NFP a person can get pregnant if God so wills it. This happened with us. We got pregnant during a time that it shouldn’t of been possible.

But again my dh and I believe that we have a moral obligation as parents to provide the bare items for our child. If by having another child would deter us from that then I believe we as parents would be not doing what is God’s will for us.We don’t believe in putting God to the test. Again this is our belief personally not intended to put what others think down.

 

[kind_bean]

I think a lot of NFP users do get a bit defensive ‘It’s okayed by the Church, look…here are examples from the Cathechism or some document’. GREAT…but that’s not what we (the non-NFP-users) are saying, all we’re saying is ‘We prefer just to let nature, and God, take its course, and we’re happy with that decision’…Doesn’t mean others have to…

I think the reason why some NFP users get defensive is because we have to fight two different sides. There are the people who believe in ABC and think that people who practice NFP are selfish and imprudent (by having too many kids to care for properly). They use examples like the Philippians and lower class families who are on welfare to back their arguments up.

On the other side you have people who are highly against NFP and think that all Catholics should submit to the will of God. They basically put NFP down and say that the Church only recently allowed it and if you are really Catholic you would be open to God’s plan. I know that not all non-NFP users (or anyone on this thread) are saying or thinking this, but I certainly have met/talked to a good number who act very righteous when they say they don’t use NFP and put others down who do.

If you don’t like NFP and think that it is not for you, fine, but you shouldn’t make NFP-users feel like they are doing something wrong, or they aren’t as faithful, etc because they use it. The Church does allow it, and in many cases encourages it, especially for lower income families or families were certain health conditions. We are all Catholic and all remain open to having children when God so desires. We shouldn’t be saying which option is better overall. It just depends on your circumstance.

 

[JKS]

I find it unfair that you have put a negative spin on NFP because you have been blessed with the means to care for many children. If my husband and I had many children, then they would starve. My husband makes too much to get welfare or food stamps, but we are barely making it by now. It would be wrong for us to have more children than we can properly care for. And having to give birth by c-sections, it would be dangerous for both me and a baby to have more than 4. Not something I am happy about, but something I have to seriously considered. .

It’s just that these arguments are the same ones couples who use ABC use. Not to shoot y’all down, but many couples use NFP as a way to avoid pregnancy, so my first thought was “What about ‘none of the above’”?

Personally, we’re just as lackadaisical about knowing my cycles, as we were with using ABC earlier in our marriage. So far, two “planned children”+ three “ABC failures”+ three “NFP failures”= 1 woman, wealthy beyond measure.

I don’t have the means to care for many children. I’m not sure how they’re turning out so well. Fortunately, most of them take after my DH, not me.

 

[Sure]

We should remember that NFP is a good thing, but it is not the norm. NFP is there for those unfortunate times, when a couple has serious reason to avoid having another child, or difficulty in conceiving. For everyone else, there is no need of NFP. I would hope that the majority of Catholic couples would not fall into those two categories, at least certainly not for the entire duration of their marriage.

There should be a greater emphasis on NFP as the exception to the rule when teaching engaged couples.

 

[mom_of_ten]

I find it unfair that you have put a negative spin on NFP because you have been blessed with the means to care for many children.

I’m sorry…but how in the world do YOU know that I have been blessed with means to care for many children? You know NOTHING about my “means”…I find it unfair that you assume that because I have what SOME consider to be many children, that I have the easy means to care for them. Please do not judge my situation by your own assumption. You have no idea what struggles, or sufferings, or financial crises we might have…you are completely conjecturing, and that is not right at all. AGAIN…as I stated in an earlier email…you have provided an example of a supporter of NFP accusing and judging (in a defensive way) someone who has been completely open to life…when you have NO INFORMATION OR GROUNDS on which to base your FALSE assumption.

Discussing issues like this becomes difficult when posters want to enter into personal attacks or accusations…in my opinion, those things are better kept to oneself…please do not make false assumptions about me…you have no idea in what shoes I have walked.

I stand by my previous posts…and stand by the opinion that they in no way put a negative spin on anything…they are merely a positive spin on my own experience and journey. Nothing I’ve written is directed personally to anyone.

May peace be with you.

 

[mom_of_ten]

I thought this was touching and beautifully expressed. Certainly not everyone can or does choose to take this path, but the expression of your faith and philosophy was lovely.

Thank you very much…it is kind of you to say so.

 

[Jofantioch]

On the other side you have people who are highly against NFP and think that all Catholics should submit to the will of God. They basically put NFP down and say that the Church only recently allowed it and if you are really Catholic you would be open to God’s plan.

It seems like this thread that I started has turned into a “holier than thou” slinging match.

If you don’t like NFP and think that it is not for you, fine, but you shouldn’t make NFP-users feel like they are doing something wrong, or they aren’t as faithful, etc because they use it. The Church does allow it, and in many cases encourages it, especially for lower income families or families were certain health conditions. We are all Catholic and all remain open to having children when God so desires.

I am able to be open to pregnancy at any time once I’m married. I feel blessed in that. I am learning NFP to have the information. It is possible that I will need to avoid pregnancy in the future and I want to be prepared. I’m also learning about the link between sex drive and fertility and other fun facts. This can ONLY make me a BETTER wife for having this knowledge.

 

[kind_bean]

I’m sorry…but how in the world do YOU know that I have been blessed with means to care for many children? You know NOTHING about my “means”…

I am truly sorry that you saw my post as an attack on you. It was not intended that way, and I gave it great thought and consideration and even asked my husband to read it to make sure it was not seen that way. So, I do apologize.

You are right, I know nothing of your means, all I meant by that was that if you can have 10 children (I used the word “many” because I was not sure if you had had more children since joining and didn’t want to change your name, I only joined this week) and none of you are starving, you have the means to care for them. I am not insinuating that you have 5 cars and travel abroad, or that it is easy to care for them or whatever you may have thought I meant by that.

All I know is, right now, if I had even 4 children, my house would go into foreclosure and I would not be able to put food on the table.

AGAIN…as I stated in an earlier email…you have provided an example of a supporter of NFP accusing and judging (in a defensive way) someone who has been completely open to life…when you have NO INFORMATION OR GROUNDS on which to base your FALSE assumption.

I am not accusing or judging you. I was just being honest, I felt that your posts (not only on this thread, but the other regarding NFP) had a negative view on NFP. And as I said, in my earlier post, if you did not intend to, then I am sorry. I just felt it necessary to point out, because sometimes we say things we don’t mean (especially in a forum where tones are difficult to catch). Just like you think I was assuming about your “means”, I know I was not, but you believe that I was. It was the same situation. And I ended my post with saying, "Maybe you didn’t mean to imply such, but to me, that is how your posts are coming across. I am truly sorry if that was not your intent, but I felt the need to address it (even if only to address others who do feel negatively about NFP).

Discussing issues like this becomes difficult when posters want to enter into personal attacks or accusations…in my opinion, those things are better kept to oneself…please do not make false assumptions about me…you have no idea in what shoes I have walked.

Many people have made false assumptions about me and my life because of my Catholic faith, so I would never make assumptions about anyone, especially on a website forum. I would never intentionally enter into personal attacks, and if you feel that I did, then you should notify a mod and we can settle the matter off of the thread.

May God bless you many times over.
KB

 

[kind_bean]

(Sorry, I had to break up my post into two, as it did not fit into one.)

I stand by my previous posts…and stand by the opinion that they in no way put a negative spin on anything…they are merely a positive spin on my own experience and journey. Nothing I’ve written is directed personally to anyone.

To clarify, I found the following comments were negative towards NFP:

However, since you are inadvertently inviting me to comment on NFP…I will say that I do see a difference between being COMPLETELY open to life; and open to life during infertile periods only. I also think that abstinence, when used for the purpose of avoiding the conception of new life, is being closed to life…

Whether a couple feels they have reason to avoid life…is between them and God…for only He knows their true motives…but it is what it is…avoiding pregnancy is synonymous with being temporarily closed to life…for whatever reason the couple might have…at that time…they do not want a new life…i.e. closed to life.

If you do not consider these negative comments, then could you explain yourself further? As I truly do not understand what is wrong in using the intelligence and reason that God gave us to decide how many children we each can properly care for. Especially when considering that as long as we continue to have sex (even in infertile times), God can bless us with a baby.

I stated in my earlier post, “But even when followed correctly, which can be difficult to do, NFP is at most 99% effective. But most research shows (because of user error) it to be closer to 75-90%. So, even if you think that you are infertile, you may not be. When my husband and I had sex during infertile times, we knew and were open to the possibility of becoming pregnant. If God truly wants you to have a child at a certain time, then He can make it happen (just look at all the people who get pregnant on birth control pills). The only way that I would truly be able to avoid pregnancy is to abstain all the time.” Therefore, we are open to the possibility of children every time we have sex, which is why the Church agrees with the use of NFP.

… I imagine that each couple using it would have to regularly ask, “What are our reasons for not wanting God to bless us with a child right now”…and then, they would have to be brutally honest with themselves to decide if those reasons were indeed reason enough to avoid having children.

As oppose to “Can we physically, spiritually, financially, and mentally care for a child right now.” Just as God gave us medicines to heal us when we are sick - we are allowed to use them instead of just relying on prayer to make us well again. God also granted us knowledge of NFP to help those who, for whatever unselfish reasons, choose not to purposely have children at the moment.

---

As I said in my earlier post (to the general public), “If you don’t like NFP and think that it is not for you, fine, but you shouldn’t make NFP-users feel like they are doing something wrong, or they aren’t as faithful, etc because they use it. The Church does allow it, and in many cases encourages it, especially for lower income families or families with certain health conditions. We are all Catholic and all remain open to having children when God so desires. We shouldn’t be saying which option is better overall. It just depends on your circumstance.”

 

[maria29]

(Sorry, I had to break up my post into two, as it did not fit into one.)

To clarify, I found the following comments were negative towards NFP:

If you do not consider these negative comments, then could you explain yourself further? As I truly do not understand what is wrong in using the intelligence and reason that God gave us to decide how many children we each can properly care for. Especially when considering that as long as we continue to have sex (even in infertile times), God can bless us with a baby.

I stated in my earlier post, “But even when followed correctly, which can be difficult to do, NFP is at most 99% effective. But most research shows (because of user error) it to be closer to 75-90%. So, even if you think that you are infertile, you may not be. When my husband and I had sex during infertile times, we knew and were open to the possibility of becoming pregnant. If God truly wants you to have a child at a certain time, then He can make it happen (just look at all the people who get pregnant on birth control pills). The only way that I would truly be able to avoid pregnancy is to abstain all the time.” Therefore, we are open to the possibility of children every time we have sex, which is why the Church agrees with the use of NFP.

As oppose to “Can we physically, spiritually, financially, and mentally care for a child right now.” Just as God gave us medicines to heal us when we are sick - we are allowed to use them instead of just relying on prayer to make us well again. God also granted us knowledge of NFP to help those who, for whatever unselfish reasons, choose not to purposely have children at the moment.

---

As I said in my earlier post (to the general public), “If you don’t like NFP and think that it is not for you, fine, but you shouldn’t make NFP-users feel like they are doing something wrong, or they aren’t as faithful, etc because they use it. The Church does allow it, and in many cases encourages it, especially for lower income families or families with certain health conditions. We are all Catholic and all remain open to having children when God so desires. We shouldn’t be saying which option is better overall. It just depends on your circumstance.”

:clapping: Thank you for saying it so much better than I would ever have time to write!

 

[LittleDeb]

I have been avoiding these threads as of late because they often become a “battle of the methods” or a “we do, you don’t, we’re better” from both sides. So I will attempt, repeat attempt, to address the poll with clarity and compassion.

I am a promoter of NFP so I know the dirty looks. We married at 30. We have 2 beautiful children. I’m 37 and was supposed to get a hysterectomy at 22. I fought back!

The questions to really ask ourselves about NFP or not has waaaay more to do with the marital act itself than anything else. Jofantioch, you sort of addressed that in your poll when you made the ABC option. I am not sure exactly how to explain it in a nutshell, but I will try.

I have a different perspective on NFP, I think because of infertility. I was told at 27, “Have a baby or have a hysterectomy.” It didn’t matter that I was single and Catholic. The sad part was…I considered it and tried.

What do we tell young people? Don’t have sex!! Why? They don’t get it when it is explained that way. Many married couples don’t get it either. Sex is the renewal of our marital vows. It is the consummation of our marriage. Each and every time it is a consummation. Our Lord said those very words as he hung on the cross, “It is consummated.” Then He died.

Knowing our fertility is a gift from God. Every woman alive can benefit from charting. But the real question still goes back to the marital act. A *couple is a family *even without children. The deeper question is not ONLY “does God want us to make a baby right now?” but also, “does God want us to renew our vows right now?”

See, infertility makes you look at everything just a little differently. It made me more aware of the message we send to young, single people. It isn’t just about making a baby. That leads many to separate the act from what it does (ABC or a contraceptive mentality.) It is a bond of one flesh. It isn’t so much about a number of children, or even when and how far apart. It is that God made the design.

It is about the marital act. Primarily the act makes babies, secondly it unifies. That is what it does…in that order. I ovulated a whole 2 times the year our son was conceived. I charted, but just to have a window into God’s plan. I never, ever wanted my husband to feel like he was a means to an end…just a “baby maker.” Before our daughter was conceived I tried to fight God to make her conception a month earlier. I lost, God won and she is beautiful! (Lesson learned.)

Whether it is a fertile time or not, ask God what He wants. We found that our desires for each other fit right into God’s plan for our family. We only have 2 so far…but oh what a blessing all that procreative, unitive infertile sex has been to us!

Another long-winded post from a charting zealot.

 

[anna1978]

Although NFP didn’t work for me (we tried to track my cycle to GET PREGNANT by the way, and I only fell pregnant AFTER we thought ‘Forget it, this ain’t working!’ So, yes God has a sense of humour )…one thing we mustn’t forget: both the ‘use nothing-see what happens’ and the NFP method make sure NO BABIES ARE HURT! They’re both good in the way that even if you try to ‘avoid’ you’re not accidently killing them, as you may with ABC…they’re both ‘child friendly’…now to me, that is the main thing:thumbsup:

 

[mom_of_ten]

Again, you have no idea what I have lived in regard foreclosures and not being able to put food on the table.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mom of ten View Post
However, since you are inadvertently inviting me to comment on NFP…I will say that I do see a difference between being COMPLETELY open to life; and open to life during infertile periods only. I also think that abstinence, when used for the purpose of avoiding the conception of new life, is being closed to life…

Whether a couple feels they have reason to avoid life…is between them and God…for only He knows their true motives…but it is what it is…avoiding pregnancy is synonymous with being temporarily closed to life…for whatever reason the couple might have…at that time…they do not want a new life…i.e. closed to life.

Saying I see a difference in something, is not being negative…it is merely stating that I see a difference…one is open to life at all times…and one is open to life only if God wishes to send a baby during an infertile period… (NFP’ers often say that those who live open always are “testing God”…well, the above can definitely be seen as “testing God”)

As for being brutally honest with each other…The CHURCH says that each couple must be honest each month about whether their reasons are justified or selfish…this is not my personal opinion…it is the Church’s opinion.

Finally, if, during fertile periods, for whatever reason, a couple is specifically not engaging in the marital embrace because they do not want a pregnancy…then, again, it is not a negative statement…but merely fact, to say, that “not wanting a pregnancy means not open to life”…What the motive of that decision is, is moot…it is what it is…

May God bless you
I am withdrawing my membership to this Forum, as it clearly is a place where “darts” are continually thrown, as opposed to charitable discussion. When one’s convictions go against the norm…one is often met with persecution. (Many do not act this way in their posts, but enough do that I feel being a part of it is a near occasion of sin for me)

To all of those from whom I have been inspired (and there have been MANY) and those with whom I have been blessed to engage in thoughtful, charitable discussion; from which I have learned much…I thank you. I have grown closer to the Lord because of it.

Peace,
Judy

 

[Jofantioch]

Finally, if, during fertile periods, for whatever reason, a couple is specifically not engaging in the marital embrace because they do not want a pregnancy…then, again, it is not a negative statement…but merely fact, to say, that “not wanting a pregnancy means not open to life”…What the motive of that decision is, is moot…it is what it is…

Judy

Judy,

No, the motive for the decision is NOT moot. You disagree with the Pope, the Curia, and the Church on this! Sex is a life-giving activity and should NEVER be engaged in unless it is a renewal of marriage vows, and open to life. Not having sex is NOT THE SAME THING as contraception. Sometimes there are elements of our faith that are difficult to accept. I guess NFP in Catholicism is yours.

 

[kind_bean]

Judy ~
I have delayed writing this response post and considered not writing it at all, but I decided I needed to clarify some things.

I have never judged you or your lifestyle and I certainly made no assumptions. *I *was never defensive, nor angry at the posts you made, and I am sorry you feel that I was. All I ever wanted was to discuss your opinions on a Church teaching. Not your life or how you live it. I thought that that was what this forum was for, to discuss openly and honestly our thoughts and views of different things in our Catholic life, not to judge, assume, or become defensive.

Again, you have no idea what I have lived in regard foreclosures and not being able to put food on the table.

Again, if you re-read my post, you will see that the one and only thing I ever said, was that you were able to care for all of your children (meaning only that you were able to provide enough for them so that the state did not need to take them away). I never once said anything specifically about your situation. The remark about foreclosures was about me, not you.

Saying I see a difference in something, is not being negative…it is merely stating that I see a difference…one is open to life at all times…and one is open to life only if God wishes to send a baby during an infertile period… (NFP’ers often say that those who live open always are “testing God”…well, the above can definitely be seen as “testing God”)

No, seeing something different doesn’t automatically mean it is negative. And I don’t think that it is difficult for God to make someone pregnant during an supposed infertile period, so no, I don’t think that it is testing God. If NFP users were truly closed to the possibility of life, then they would either abstain all the time or switch to ABC.

As for being brutally honest with each other…The CHURCH says that each couple must be honest each month about whether their reasons are justified or selfish…this is not my personal opinion…it is the Church’s opinion.

I agree with you here. Yes, the Church does say this, and maybe some people are practicing NFP for selfish reasons, but certainly not everyone. In my personal experience, I have found that the Catholics who don’t want to have children for selfish reasons are the ones who use ABC. But the ones who practice NFP, truly are open to having children when they are properly able to.

If you want to be “brutally honest with each other”, as you put it, fine, I will. Your posts seem to imply that you did not think that there were really any justified reasons for putting off having children, when the Church clearly states that there are (financial and health related problems, to name just two). This is why I was confused and said it sounded like your posts were negative. Yet, I realized that I might be reading into them too much, which is why I politely asked you to clarify your statements, and after reading your clarifications, I see that I was right in my initial thoughts (see below).

Finally, if, during fertile periods, for whatever reason, a couple is specifically not engaging in the marital embrace because they do not want a pregnancy…then, again, it is not a negative statement…but merely fact, to say, that “not wanting a pregnancy means not open to life”…What the motive of that decision is, is moot…it is what it is…

As the previous poster (Jofantioch) said, this is the whole point of why NFP is allowed - because in some instances married couples would have a hardship to have more (or any) children in their particular situation. When you say that it is a moot point, you disrespect all those who faithfully practice NFP and the Church and Her teachings.

I think this says it best:

“The providentialists say to do nothing to interfere with procreation - including NFP, and they remind us that every baby is co-created by God, who will provide the means. The culturalists say to stop at two; three would be maximum. They see nothing but problems and tell us to use everything available to keep our families very small. The Catholic position is in the middle, calling for generosity, recognizing serious reasons in some cases for more spacing and family limitation, and allowing NFP in the presence of sufficiently serious reasons.”
(From Sex and the Marriage Covenant: A Basis For Morality by John F. Kippley)

 

[mrs_abbott]

I think the third choice is EXTREMELY biased so I will alter it and say yes, I contracept but if God really wants me to have another child, He will make it happen. There’s evidence in the bible about that. Just look at Sarah, Abraham’s wife and Elizabeth, Mary’s cousin. All women that couldn’t conceive children any more but God willed it for them.
I am open to life but pray to God that He continues to bless our family and keep it just the four of us, for emotional and financial reasons.

 

[nobeerinheaven]

It is very sad that at least 6 people voted that they reject God, and endorse the practice of sin which formalizes that pitiable rejection.

I certainly hope no contracepting Catholics receive the Eucharist. It truly saddens me to think God is being so flippantly abused in his most holy sacrament of the alter. As an otherwise unemotional person, this is one of a very few things that makes me deeply upset. I truly cannot see how people can be so callous toward God’s clear teaching through the Church. And if one rejects that Church, please do not receive the communion sacrifice that it offers to the faithful in a state of grace.

 

[gettingthere]

I have a question, after reading all this…

My husband and I use NFP, but we abstain during fertile periods because I don’t have health insurance and when we do get pregnant we want to make sure we can provide proper health care for me and the baby. That said, we’ve prayed about it a lot and have decided to trust God, and know that God is ultimately in control, so if He chose for us to get pregnant before I got health insurance, He would help us find a way to provide.

I will have health insurance in 6-12 months (it’s not a really certain time frame, I know, but it’s because of immigration… I’m trying to become a permanent resident, but it’s taking a long time. I have visitor’s insurance but that’s only for emergencies and wouldn’t cover prenatal care) and we are planning on trying to get pregnant as soon as I hold a health card in my hand.

My question: is this a justifiable excuse for abstaining during fertile periods? It isn’t that we are opposed to pregnancy (quite the opposite, really… we are so crazy-anxious to have kids!), it’s just that we want to be able to provide for the baby. I don’t want to do something that is against what the church teaches…

 

[StratusRose]

I think the third choice is EXTREMELY biased so I will alter it and say yes, I contracept but if God really wants me to have another child, He will make it happen. There’s evidence in the bible about that. Just look at Sarah, Abraham’s wife and Elizabeth, Mary’s cousin. All women that couldn’t conceive children any more but God willed it for them.
I am open to life but pray to God that He continues to bless our family and keep it just the four of us, for emotional and financial reasons.

Big Difference, Mrs Abbott.

Sarah and Elizabeth were not using contraception, they were naturally infertile and I can imagine their hearts were broken all those years when they couldn’t conceive.

 

[ChristinaM]

Big Difference, Mrs Abbott.

Sarah and Elizabeth were not using contraception, they were naturally infertile and I can imagine their hearts were broken all those years when they couldn’t conceive.

Precisely. I have a Protestant friend who I have tried to encourage to use NFP…she has the same response. “If God REALLY wants me to conceive on the Pill, I will!”

The MEANS are important as well as the ENDS. I wish people would understand this about NFP.