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stpurl
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And you are completely missing the point I made and erecting a strawman to counter it. Not cool.
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Crusaderbear
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I love the Lord, so I love the mass, any form… 'nuff said.
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ProVobis
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Rejecting the EF as invalid or demonic would be rejecting almost the entire existence of the Church since the early centuries.
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stpurl
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I’m going to address this strawman point by point.
The poster I was addressing had stated that adding kneelers and railings was expensive. To that worry of expense, I noted (correctly) that one NEED NOT have a kneeler in order to kneel, and one need not have a railing to receive on the tongue.
Somehow you took that into out of the blue making an argument about some holier than thou ‘look at me I’m kneeling’ person being all irreverent while Carrie communion-in-the hand, all reverent and trembling, was SO much better than the hateful pharisee blah blah.
Totally beside the point and a strawman, as I stated.
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AugustTherese
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…Post must be at least 16 characters…
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jas84173
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Well it seems the Holy Father thinks less of the EF from this article which when it came out really hurt my feelings actually.
www.lifesitenews.com
Pope Francis on the young who like Latin Mass: 'Why so much rigidity?' - LifeSite
Young Catholics who like the Latin Mass have a 'rigidity' which suggests 'insecurity of even something else,' Pope Francis said.
www.lifesitenews.com
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Reuben_J
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More EF priests. Maybe in certain localities to cater for the EF enthusiasts but it is entirely up to the priests. EF is not necessary in the third world countries where people are already used to the OF. They do not need the EF.
It is alright to prefer the EF mass but not alright if it causes you to be schismatic. You know you are when your preference become unreasonably extreme.
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OraLabora
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Well if it were left up to me… I like the LOTH but there’s some things I’d change. But I wouldn’t want to go back to the breviary of Pius X. Too long for secular priests and the laity (although the monastic one I usually pray these days is the same length). The only thing I’d change, would be to drop the New Testament canticle at Vespers. It was a lame attempt to mirror the OT canticle at Lauds. There was some nonsense about a “canticle” being buried in the text there somewhere. But there isn’t. They don’t psalmody well, they are simply too syncopated. I’d drop it, add a third psalm instead, and perhaps aim for a 2-week instead of 4-week distribution. It would also help that, particularly in Week III, Vespers is simply too short, a longer psalm could be inserted instead of the canticle. I can chant the whole of Vespers in Latin, taking the time to re-read the psalm (and canticle) in French after chanting the Latin, with a silent pause after the reading, in 15 minutes. Seems hardly worth the trouble. In fact many times the psalmody at mid-day prayer (supposedly a “minor” hour) is longer than the psalmody at Vespers, which is supposed to be one of the two major pole hours. I’d leave Lauds alone though. Right now I’m doing the same monastic office as our abbey, and Lauds and Vespers take 25-30 minutes each. At least I don’t feel like I went upstairs to my oratory for nothing!
The form of the Mass has ZERO to do with the homily. I have heard many rousing homilies in the OF. The homilies at our abbey are excellent, though they tend to be deeply spiritual, not bold. Not surprising since it’s a contemplative monastery. They’re not meant to shock or awe… they’re meant to help us get more deeply into the text. Which is what a homily is supposed to do: expand on the text and teach us what the text means, not a rant about some issue du jour.
No it’s not. It started out as a vernacular, and ended up simply as a lingua franca of the liturgy.
What is sacred though, is a lot of the music that was built around the Latin version of the scriptures. The corpus of Gregorian and other forms of plainchant in the Church is a treasure to be preserved, and that does require a measure of Latin in the liturgy!
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OraLabora
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A kneeler helps. I’m nearly 60 and suffering from a bad bout of sciatica. Kneeling is painful for me, and kneeling on the floor especially so. I can still manage it on a kneeler though. So if you don’t use a kneeler, expect fewer people kneeling, and you’ll lose consistency in liturgy. For someone interested in good liturgy, unity in liturgical acts adds an important dimension.
As for receiving on the tongue or in the hand… I receive in the hand, but at the abbey where I go to Mass, many do receive on the tongue, and on their knees. Many older monasteries did not have altar rails either. They opened the grille of the enclosure and one or two of the priest-monks came out to distribute communion to the faithful lined up two-by-two.
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KMG
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John XXIII disagrees with you. He calls Latin a sacred language in Veterum Sapientia. Like other popes. The Latin of the liturgy, incidentally, was not simply a vernacular, but quite removed from vernacular speech. The great scholar Mohrmann demonstrated that decades ago.
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KMG
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Latin is a sacred language. Doesn’t require “papal infallibility” to declare that.
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Reuben_J
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It is, if it is held as universal belief. Why would we change a sacred language to a vernacular?
It has to be made clear, something as important as that. I have not heard of a sacred language in Catholicism that binds on every Catholic.
You are using that to make your argument then you have to support it.
It has to be made clear, something as important as that. I have not heard of a sacred language in Catholicism that binds on every Catholic.
You are using that to make your argument then you have to support it.
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KMG
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It is truly a sad state of affairs when the very question of whether Latin is a sacred language is up for debate on a Catholic forum.
“Tres sunt autem linguae sacrae: Hebraea, Graeca, Latina,
quae toto orbe maxime excellunt.
His enim tribus linguis super crucem Domini
a Pilato fuit causa eius scripta.” - Saint Isidore, Bishop and Doctor
“Tres sunt autem linguae sacrae: Hebraea, Graeca, Latina,
quae toto orbe maxime excellunt.
His enim tribus linguis super crucem Domini
a Pilato fuit causa eius scripta.” - Saint Isidore, Bishop and Doctor
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KMG
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Not changing anything. Latin is a sacred language. That’s not a serious topic for debate.
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Roseeurekacross
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I am learning LOTH atm. I am learning as part of my entry into a Monastic community. So I guess it’s monastic. That being said, it seems the Australian LOTH is a little different to the way the North American LOTH is structured, if I understand those in my community. This is because iBreviary and Laudate are different to what we pray.
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KMG
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Of course it was a major argument of the Protestant Revolt that Latin was not a sacred language.
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ProVobis
Guest
It was an Apostolic Constitution, the highest level of decree issued by the Pope. It means it has the same weight as Quo Primum and Missale Romanum, among others.
en.wikipedia.org
Apostolic constitution - Wikipedia
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