Do you see yourself as a Catholic first, or a Christian first?

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Whitacre_Girl said:
I’m going to say Christian before Catholic. If Jesus appears before me tomorrow and says that Catholicism is all wrong (thought I sincerely don’t think so!) I would have NO trouble walking away if it meant truly following him. I am a follower of Christ first and foremost. I happen to believe that following him means being part of the catholic church, but there ya go. 👍
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The logic here is faulty. If Christ exists, if Christ is God, then the Catholic Church is the Church of God. Hence, it could never be - in any possible world - that Christ would appear and say “Catholicism is wrong”. If you are willing to grant such a thing, then you must also grant that Catholicism is not the faith of the God of the universe. If you grant that, then you must also grant that Christ made a mistake (as did the Apostles, etc) and if Christ made a mistake then he couldn’t be God.

Catholicism just is Christianity. One cannot think of it as Christianity with the added feature of being right on most things; or Christianity-extra. Catholicism is Christianity. To be a follower of Christ is the be Catholic.

If there is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ.
And there is no salvation outside the Church which is the Mystical Body of Christ.
And Christianity is to follow Christ.
Then to be a follower of Christ is to be Catholic.

I don’t understand the confusion. Does it have to do with Protestant sects who claim to be Christian? Protestantism is a caricature of Christianity. Let’s not forget that Protestantism is the fruit of heresy. They are Christians, yes, but Christians in an unfulfilled sense.
 
Whitacre_Girl said:
I’m going to say Christian before Catholic. If Jesus appears before me tomorrow and says that Catholicism is all wrong (thought I sincerely don’t think so!) I would have NO trouble walking away if it meant truly following him. I am a follower of Christ first and foremost. I happen to believe that following him means being part of the catholic church, but there ya go. 👍
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Well, Jesus wouldn’t do that. Our doctrine is infallible. The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ, and our popes are his Vicars on Earth. It’s impossible for the Catholic Church to be “wrong” in that sense.
 
Mike30 said:
Non practicing Roman Catholic is how you describe yourself. Well that certainly explains a lot of things…

Tell me,are all that are saved saved by Jesus through the Catholic Church in some fashion?
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ConstantineTG, the last I knew, was “practicing” Eastern Catholicism while remaining canonically Latin rite because he hasn’t succeeded in getting his membership transfered. You’ve got to be careful about making assumptions about people based on very little evidence.

To address the original question, Catholicism is full Christianity or orthodox Christianty, whereas other forms of Christianity are incomplete and/or partially in error. With this truth in view I don’t think there’s a way of putting one before the other without creating a lot of confusion.
 
I am a follower of Christ first and foremost, so Christian comes first. I express my following of Christ through the religion called Catholicism.
 
Rahn said:
I am a follower of Christ first and foremost, so Christian comes first. I express my following of Christ through the religion called Catholicism.
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Well, no. Catholicism isn’t a “kind among many.” It’s the only kind, really. If you’re Christian, you’re Catholic.

Catholicism isn’t just some “add on” that you can choose to participate in if you’re a Christian.
 
Clearly I’ve IDed as a Christian. My Church is the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church. Why? coz I love Christ and want to bear his name in my self description.

Christian is a first century description of our faith, first used in Antioch. Catholic is early second century after the missionary work had taken our Christian faith all “over the world”. Used by Ignatius (also Syrian).:cool:
 
daCatholicGuard said:
I also believe this same thing happens whenever a Jew or Muslim meets God; and so long as they spent their lives trying to serve God to the best of their ability, (and were repentant for their failings), they will go to Heaven. (Perhaps, after a layover in Purgatory; which most likely awaits the vast majority of us).
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I think I would have to technically disagree with this statement. The Catholic Chuch is the one and only true Church founded by Jesus Christ. This is the only place where salvation can be found. Jesus Christ did not found the Jewish or Muslim religions. Granted, Christ was a Jew and they, along with all the other Israelite tribes, were the people of God in the Old Testament. However, the covenant of God went from Abraham, to Moses, to Jesus Christ to the Catholic Church. It is no coincidence that in the Traditional Latin Mass, we speak of Abraham, our patriach, not the patriarch of the Israelites. The Sacrifice and the priesthood were taken away from the Jews and given to the Catholic Church. That is why the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed. That is why the Jews are no longer able to offer the daily sacrifice. The Mass is now the daily sacrifice on earth, and I believe that if the Sacrifice of the Mass - the re-presentation of the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ - was not offered every day on this earth, our sins would bring the wrath of God down upon this earth and destroy us. Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist services - none of these can compare to the importance of the Mass. And therefore none of these religions can compare to the Catholic Church.

The Church teaches that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. That does not mean that you must be on a church membership list somewhere to be saved. This, I believe, is where Divine Mercy comes in. St. Faustina tells us that Christ calls out to everyone, constantly extending His Mercy. I believe that He is calling each one of us at every moment in our lives, and that we have a chance at salvation right up to the last moment of our lives. The example of the good thief on the cross tells us that. So no matter what religion you are or no religion, Christ is calling you. Being a good Jew, Muslim, Buddhist means nothing to God. It is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that will save us, not our good works. So if a non-Christian is saved, it will have nothing to do with their good works. It will be because at some point they accepted the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ, which comes through the Catholic Church. That is why we never judge anyone, not the most heinous sinner. Even someone like Adolph Hitler could have repented at the last moment and been saved. Good works do not save us. Only Jesus Christ saves us.
 
christosdavid said:
Clearly I’ve IDed as a Christian. My Church is the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church. Why? coz I love Christ and want to bear his name in my self description.

Christian is a first century description of our faith, first used in Antioch. Catholic is early second century after the missionary work had taken our Christian faith all “over the world”. Used by Ignatius (also Syrian).:cool:
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St. Ignatius used the word casually, as if the word were already well known. That suggests an earlier origin, probably in the first century.

Anyway, as a general principle, though etymology can be fascinating it’s important to remember that words mean what they currently mean to the people who read or hear them.
 
Aelred_Minor said:
St. Ignatius used the word casually, as if the word were already well known. That suggests an earlier origin, probably in the first century.

Anyway, as a general principle, though etymology can be fascinating it’s important to remember that words mean what they currently mean to the people who read or hear them.
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So true, but even casual words have to have a beginning. The first historic occassion of Christian is recorded for us in Acts. Catholic is Tradition.

Scripture and Tradition… still, its nice to be known as the same as Peter and Paul, Christians.

The Christian enemies in Rome certainly knew the martyrs as Christians (Tacitus, Suetonius).

Our martyrs died simply for the **name **as Tertullian and other apologists noted, Christian! 👍
 
Dragonslayer said:
Recently I was talking to someone who I thought was a pretty staunch Catholic and he made the comment that he saw himself as a Christian first, moreso than a Catholic.

More recently when I have done or said something stupid a work colleague has lightheartedly said something like " I thought you were a Christian, you shouldn’t be saying things like that". On other occasions some others have commented about “the Christian thing to do…” etc

Now, that has got me thinking. How do we see ourselves foremost, a Catholic, or a Christian? Does it matter?
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I see myself as both equally.

To me to be a fully aware Christian is to be Catholic. There are people who are ‘christian’ but they are outside of all the Christian teachings which are present in the Catholic Church. Hence I am a Christian, that defines myself as Catholic in order to not be counted as an uninformed protestant christian.
 
Dragonslayer said:
Recently I was talking to someone who I thought was a pretty staunch Catholic and he made the comment that he saw himself as a Christian first, moreso than a Catholic.

More recently when I have done or said something stupid a work colleague has lightheartedly said something like " I thought you were a Christian, you shouldn’t be saying things like that". On other occasions some others have commented about “the Christian thing to do…” etc

Now, that has got me thinking. How do we see ourselves foremost, a Catholic, or a Christian? Does it matter?
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It may be different for adult converts. A baptized baby doesn’t arrive at faith in the Church through the same intellectual process that seems to be intended for adults. The Church already teaches that in the natural order, we should find the existence of God by the use of reason. Chronologically, and intellectually, we are first theists. Next would come the question of whether besides what has been revealed through nature, whether God has revealed Himself through any other means. I was looking for Christ before I was looking for the Church Christ founded.

I agree that to be Catholic is to be Christian, but in the intellectual process of becoming Catholic, it appears to me that there is an order of steps that must be taken. Think about the reverse. If a baptized baby grows up to become an atheist does he retain belief in Christ and the Catholic Church? No. The first thing to go would be the Church. Then Christ. Then God. If the atheist who had been baptized as a baby were to return to the Catholic faith, he must first believe in God and Christ. In the ordered hierarchy of my beliefs, this is what I mean when I say that I am theistic first, Christian second, and Catholic third.
 
I agree with those who said that to be fully Christian is to be Catholic. This is how I see myself.

However, if I am speaking with someone who is not familiar with my religion, I will clarify things, like say that I am a Catholic Christian. If I’m speaking to a Protestant I will say I am Catholic.
 
What about if all the churches were united like the first milleneum? would we have people saying ‘i am Catholic’ and another saying ‘i am Orthodox’ and another ‘i am anglican’

what a disgrace and this is like spitting into the face of Christ,splitting apart his body and creating thousands of different denominations with different names like a supermarket of Christian Faiths to choose from

If the Great schism didnt happen ,would Rome be called the Roman Catholic Church?

and would the East then have called themselves the Orthodox Church?
 
If you could asked God what religion spirit was do you think spirit would give a domination?
 
francessmith said:
If you could asked God what religion spirit was do you think spirit would give a domination?
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No, if I asked God [not that I would need to, since He has already given me the answer] what religion was correct he would not give a denomination. He would give the answer which is the Catholic faith.
 
When you say ‘I’m Christian’, people automatically presume you’re protestant from what I have seen.
 
NewsTheMan said:
No, if I asked God [not that I would need to, since He has already given me the answer] what religion was correct he would not give a denomination. He would give the answer which is the Catholic faith.
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I second this. Catholicism is not a denomination. Catholicism is the Church of Christ. Any other ‘churches’ are denominations which are simply places of heresy and false teachings.

Is calling protestant churches ‘false teachings’ wrong? I dont think so, once we try to add or subtract from the truth it is no longer the truth.
 
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