Do you support the Minutemen? Well don't

[jj2011]

While I completely and 100% disagree w/ the Church’s position on illegal immigration,

Excuse me, but did you or did you not post these words?

It was you who lectured us, and for some reason you volunteered that you “disagree w/ the Church’s position on illegal immigration.”

I’m not sure where would-be aspirants to religious life get the idea that they can trumpet their disagreement with “the Church’s position” and then stiff-arm critics with ‘don’t lecture me’ rhetoric.

Now I asked a legitimate question here and it demands an answer. Where is the evidence that the Church or the magisterium would support an organization like the Minutemen or what they do?

I looked up Pius XII’s Exsul familia, on migrants, and I frankly didn’t see anything that supports the position of my critics. Haven’t seen anything that supports my critics in the post-Vatican II popes either. Sorry.

 

[AdvanceAlways]

While I completely and 100% disagree w/ the Church’s position on illegal immigration,

Excuse me, but did you or did you not post these words?

It was you who lectured us, and for some reason you volunteered that you “disagree w/ the Church’s position on illegal immigration.”

I’m not sure where would-be aspirants to religious life get the idea that they can trumpet their disagreement with “the Church’s position” and then stiff-arm critics with ‘don’t lecture me’ rhetoric.

Now I asked a legitimate question here and it demands an answer. Where is the evidence that the Church or the magisterium would support an organization like the Minutemen or what they do?

I looked up Pius XII’s Exsul familia, on migrants, and I frankly didn’t see anything that supports the position of my critics. Haven’t seen anything that supports my critics in the post-Vatican II popes either. Sorry.

Oh I lectured you now did I? Last time I checked the Church’s positions on immigration most noteably ILLEGAL immigrants was not spoken ex Cathedra, I am free to believe what I want in that matter, sorry if that offends…

 

[Walt_Oliver]

Please return to the topic of the original post, which was the Minutemen’s actions at the church. Take the bickering private, if it must be done at all. Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[Biblioassistant]

I don’t know if the Church has an official position on illegal (note I said illegal) immigration. Me - I’m against it. I think every country has a right to a secure border and while I would love to take everyone who wants to come to the USA, the fact remains we can’t do it.

Sigh. There has been a lot of heat and not a lot of light shed on this issue. Just because I would like for immigrants to obey the law, does not make me a bigot. On the other hand, I fully understand the despair that drives people to risk it all to come here. I have no answers, but I do wonder why the Mexican people tolerate such corruption in their govt. Mexico has hard working people, and rich resources. They should be a wealthy country.

 

[estesbob]

This is what the U.S. did to Mexico, but it’s apparently a waste of time to argue that here.

Very simple question.

Is there any evidence that the Catholic Church supports what the Minutemen do?

The Church has not said anything one way or the other.

 

[jj2011]

I would encourage everybody to look at the news article that was already posted here:

nctimes.com/articles/2007/07/08/news/top_stories/22_10_707_7_07.txt

It is obvious to me, from the reporting and pictures, that the Minutemen who did these things are a hate group, and a very anti-Catholic hate group at that.

The article talks about a Jeff Schwilk and identifies him as the founder of the San Diego Minutemen. Are we now to believe that the “founder of the San Diego Minutemen” is leading a rogue group unaffiliated with Gilchrist’s “good” Minutemen?

 

[geezerbob]

I would encourage everybody to look at the news article that was already posted here:

nctimes.com/articles/2007/07/08/news/top_stories/22_10_707_7_07.txt

It is obvious to me, from the reporting and pictures, that the Minutemen who did these things are a hate group, and a very anti-Catholic hate group at that.

The article talks about a Jeff Schwilk and identifies him as the founder of the San Diego Minutemen. Are we now to believe that the “founder of the San Diego Minutemen” is leading a rogue group unaffiliated with Gilchrist’s “good” Minutemen?

I’m not entering this argument on either side, but you should know full well that any loosely organized group of volunteers is apt to have rogue elements. The test will be if the national organization disassociates itself from the San Diego group.

 

[estesbob]

I would encourage everybody to look at the news article that was already posted here:

nctimes.com/articles/2007/07/08/news/top_stories/22_10_707_7_07.txt

It is obvious to me, from the reporting and pictures, that the Minutemen who did these things are a hate group, and a very anti-Catholic hate group at that.

The article talks about a Jeff Schwilk and identifies him as the founder of the San Diego Minutemen. Are we now to believe that the “founder of the San Diego Minutemen” is leading a rogue group unaffiliated with Gilchrist’s “good” Minutemen?

OK so:

1. You Dont like the Minutemen.
2. A small group of San Diego Minutemen are a bunch of Anti-Catholic Jerks
3. The Church has neither endoresed or Condemend the Minutemen

So where else is this thread going?

 

[pprimeau1976]

I’d like to post a site that shows actual video, and the folks here can decide for themselves if this is a movement that should be supported by Catholics, let alone Catholics contemplating “religious” life.

minutemenunvarnished.com/minutesite/home.html

That was an interesting video. Did you notice the chain in the one guy’s wallet? The whole site was interesting. What a bunch of idiots!

 

[AdvanceAlways]

I would encourage everybody to look at the news article that was already posted here:

nctimes.com/articles/2007/07/08/news/top_stories/22_10_707_7_07.txt

It is obvious to me, from the reporting and pictures, that the Minutemen who did these things are a hate group, and a very anti-Catholic hate group at that.

The article talks about a Jeff Schwilk and identifies him as the founder of the San Diego Minutemen. Are we now to believe that the “founder of the San Diego Minutemen” is leading a rogue group unaffiliated with Gilchrist’s “good” Minutemen?

These minutemen are unassociated with Jim Gilchrist’s Minutemen.

 

[estesbob]

These minutemen are unassociated with Jim Gilchrist’s Minutemen.

So are they like the minute and a half minutemen?

 

[AdvanceAlways]

So are they like the minute and a half minutemen?

that would be a way to put it. The original Minutemen were founded by Mr. Jim Gilchrist, a devout Catholic. Several renegade groups have sprung up all using the name minutemen, in most cases illegally. To see if you are dealing with real Minutemen, they will always go by “Jim Gilchrist’s Minutemen”

 

[jj2011]

These minutemen are unassociated with Jim Gilchrist’s Minutemen.

Of course they’re “unassociated.” Hate groups routinely generate other splinter groups and they splinter off from each other as well.

Apparently, Gilchrist’s group isn’t even associated with that of his original ally, Chris Simcox.

 

[AdvanceAlways]

Of course they’re “unassociated.” Hate groups routinely generate other splinter groups and they splinter off from each other as well.

Apparently, Gilchrist’s group isn’t even associated with that of his original ally, Chris Simcox.

Chris Simcox does not lead a hate group. Neitheir Gilchrist or Simcox’s minutemen are hate groups.

 

[jj2011]

Here’s some reporting about neo-Nazi National Alliance types acting as volunteers for the minutemen. No doubt they’ll be disclaimed as “unassociated” as well.

splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?aid=13

 

[estesbob]

Here’s some reporting about neo-Nazi National Alliance types acting as volunteers for the minutemen. No doubt they’ll be disclaimed as “unassociated” as well.

splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?aid=13

fallacyfiles.org/guiltbya.html

 

[manualman]

So jj, by your logic, Judas Iscariot proves the treacherous nature inherent to christianity.

Guilt by association is BAD policy. Suspicion by association might be OK if it leads you to discover more solid evidence, but your logic here of

1. Here’s a buch of creeps claiming the title Minutemen behaving badly.
2. There are people taking the title in many other places.
3. Ergo, they are all rogue creeps just like the ones in the video.

Bad, bad, DANGEROUS reasoning.

 

[Ender]

Here’s some reporting about neo-Nazi National Alliance types acting as volunteers for the minutemen. No doubt they’ll be disclaimed as “unassociated” as well.

I think you may be on to something …

dwb.thenewstribune.com/news/local/story/4850294p-4452879c.html

Ender

 

[Califman831]

I would call in to question which Minuteman group this is. It porbably is NOT the official Minutemen of Jim Gilchrist who is a devout Catholic. This is probably one of the many rogue minutemen groups.

I was thinking they are members of Save Our State or National Alliance. The media currently likes to lump all the immigrant hate groups under the Minuteman banner. Its funny that these groups have no problem with the history of anglos coming to this land and raping, stealing, and murdering Native Americans (yes that includes Mexico, get a freaking map).

 

[estesbob]

I was thinking they are members of Save Our State or National Alliance. The media currently likes to lump all the immigrant hate groups under the Minuteman banner. Its funny that these groups have no problem with the history of anglos coming to this land and raping, stealing, and murdering Native Americans (yes that includes Mexico, get a freaking map).

Which map should we get? the one showing the Apaches in control of the Southwest or the one showing the Anasazi in control if the Southwest?