Do you support the second amendment?

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upant:
did you read the first post? the link is a 2012 study.

you don’t like the statement but it is true. prove it wrong.
Prove a negative? Has logic been abandoned?
Yes I read the OP. It is a survey. There are five links… I saw no academic study.
one link by it self

The Effectiveness of Policies and Programs That Attempt to Reduce
Firearm Violence: A Meta-Analysis
Second, a number of politically popular programs show little or no promise for reducing gun violence. For example, gun buy-backs did not demonstrate empirical relationship with gun violence. These programs, at best, hope to affect gun crime indirectly by decreasing the availability of guns and thus reducing gun crimes. Little evidence has been shown to support the assumption that they are able to decrease the number of guns available to criminals, much less gun crime (Rosenfeld, 1995).
Also showing little promise were several popular types of gun laws. Effect sizes drawn from methodologically rigorous studies evaluating waiting periods and background checks were not statistically significant. Also, although it appears that enhanced prison terms show a significant and negative impact on gun violence, the mean effect size from the high-quality studies showed this relationship to be weak.
Finally, certain types of policies and programs do show considerable promise for reducing gun violence. Specifically, law enforcement programs are clearly more effective than gun laws.
Differences within the effects of waiting periods and background checks also indicate the need for caution in trusting findings from research of limited quality. A number of high-quality studies have found null effects (–.004). Still, including research of limited and fair quality (whose respective mean effects are –.200 and –.174) into the overall mean effect size gives the impression that these laws have been shown to significantly (yet weakly) reduce crime (r = –.078).
 
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upant:
common knowledge you argue against. what law will stop the criminal from getting a gun? what control will stop criminals from getting guns?
Simple. Not everyone who commits a crime knows the neighborhood arms dealer. Where are using the word “criminal” here almost as a synonym for gang member, or career criminal. A lot of crime is committed by those who know nothing of the nefarious criminal underworld.
those that want guns do.
 
Second, a number of politically popular programs show little or no promise for reducing gun violence. For example, gun buy-backs did not demonstrate empirical relationship with gun violence. These programs, at best, hope to affect gun crime indirectly by decreasing the availability of guns and thus reducing gun crimes
This a an interesting conclussion from this paper by a teaching assistant and associate prof since all their data on the waiting period showed negative. I guess “little promise” depends on one’s definition of “little”. So let us allow the research and repeal the Dickey Amendment. It is the “pro-life” thing to do.
those that want guns do.
Do you? I don’t.
 
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@pnewton

Yes, the govt should keep tabs on them.

But the difference between my view and BLM is that I only believe you can
legally rebel against the Federal govt if your local state legislature
votes to rebel.

It’s not legal to rebel because you or your group individually decides to
rebel without the support of the dual elected state legislature.

I could be wrong, but I think that’s what the NRA would say too. While it
seems that BLM is willing to rebel without state support**.

So I believe there is a distinction.

**However, it does seem as if BLM has received support from local govts
(like Berkeley, CA), even if unofficially.

God Bless
 
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@pnewton

Yes, the govt should keep tabs on them.

But the difference between my view and BLM is that I only believe you can
legally rebel against the Federal govt if your local state legislature
votes to rebel.

It’s not legal to rebel because you or your group individually decides to
rebel without the support of the dual elected state legislature.

I could be wrong, but I think that’s what the NRA would say too. While it
seems that BLM is willing to rebel without state support**.

So I believe there is a distinction.

**However, it does seem as if BLM has received support from local govts
(like Berkeley, CA), even if unofficially.

God Bless
There are no legal rebellions. They’re all terrorist actions without exception-
-unless they win.

Then they’re patriots and founding fathers. You should name your kids after them.
 
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phil19034:
@pnewton

Yes, the govt should keep tabs on them.

But the difference between my view and BLM is that I only believe you can
legally rebel against the Federal govt if your local state legislature
votes to rebel.

It’s not legal to rebel because you or your group individually decides to
rebel without the support of the dual elected state legislature.

I could be wrong, but I think that’s what the NRA would say too. While it
seems that BLM is willing to rebel without state support**.

So I believe there is a distinction.

**However, it does seem as if BLM has received support from local govts
(like Berkeley, CA), even if unofficially.

God Bless
There are no legal rebellions. They’re all terrorist actions without exception-
-unless they win.

Then they’re patriots and founding fathers. You should name your kids after them.
Very True.

However, my only point was that I only believe you have a “right” to rebel and declare war against the federal govt if your local govt (state govt) declares war - like the Continental Congress did and like the Confederate States did - though I disagree(ed) with the Confederated States.

God Bless
 
Hi, Ridgerunner!

I think that battle is a little different; even with the best training and best weapons our physiological changes cause some distraction, as well as the intended target being mobile and an actual threat.

Yet, the comparison remains; when the 2nd was established it could not be foreseen that there would be a continental army (branched out into several specialized services) nor that technology would make weapons as destructive as they’ve become.

Consider too that the active force in defending the colonies were not trained soldiers but the average joes–it would tend to reason that there had to be some sort of fear of reprisal from the British monarch and the hidden threat of those who, in his absence, would aspire for dominance and control.

Further, consider additional factors… while the constitution reads:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Is there room there to believe that the constitution meant ‘only white men are created equal?’

There isn’t, is there?

Yet, we know from historical experience that the aborigines and other non-Caucasians were not treated as equal.

The point I’m making is not for distress but for clarification… even when the highest “law of the land” demanded it, the application of the law did not take to the letter of the law.

Things changed for the better; things remained; yet, some things changed for the worst. When we make void the voice of reason, useless and negative values tend to rise to the top and be celebrated as crème de la crème. (There’s a hidden value to crème–if you have taken care of new born babes you would get the full meaning.)

Maran atha!

Angel
 
They do not purchase their guns from licensed dealers and therefore will not be subject to the waiting period.
Hi, Satarshiptrooper (kind of a ok movie), so where do you consider those guns materialized from?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Hi, Luigi!

I was attempting to throw in some levity… still, the crude is still indispensable for the arteries of the nation to keep aflowing!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
are you a criminal?
If that’s a “no”, then that is my point. No one is a criminal until they commit a crime. This characterization of criminals as some uniform group that all have the same knowledge and connections is a false convenience. The idea that “they” all know how to get illegal guns is just wrong.
 
Hi, Jon!

…exactly the reason why the beating a dead horse makes not a single sense (or circular arguments); we are at completely different spheres. You equate “right” with do whatever you wish regardless of the cause and consequences. I equate the “right” granted by the constitution as the means to elevate myself and the nation not as a stick with which to bludgeon the nation.

Thank you for the intercourse (exchange of ideas).

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Sadly you are speaking to an anarchist rooted philosophy–registry means uncle Sam will come and get you.

It does not matter that manufacturers and distributors are well aware that guns continue to find their way into the hands of gangsters and other criminals.

Do you recall the major tenet of economy: goods vs. demand?

The more we demand freedom from policing the gun industry the more gangsters and other criminals will have access to more and more weapons.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Wow!

So, the militia is about to topple the US government?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Phil, which federal government were the colonies preparing to defend against?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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upant:
are you a criminal?
If that’s a “no”, then that is my point. No one is a criminal until they commit a crime. This characterization of criminals as some uniform group that all have the same knowledge and connections is a false convenience. The idea that “they” all know how to get illegal guns is just wrong.
the point is anyone who wants a gun will not be bothered with your gun control. yes career criminals know how and where to get guns. just like the thief will find a buyer for their goods. the person intent on buying a gun will find one. it doesn’t take foreknowledge of a vast underground organization.

what gun control law will stop any person from obtaining an illegal gun?
who are gun control people trying to control?
 
Bruised_Reed
They won’t shoot blindly but they might not be able to tell that those shooting in self-defense are not the assailants.
Or they may not be able to tell the difference between Friend and Foe in the dark. Both could be holding guns and not actually firing…
 
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It’s the ole arguing from both sides of their mouths: ‘waiting period and registration is not productive and manufacturers and distributors are law abiding; further, criminals will not be foolish to register;’ then they top that with: 'most criminals get their guns from family members ‘cause there are no disreputable dealings in the gun industry.’

They highlight how no once is culpable but the criminals (and maybe some enabling family members) for the guns ending up in their hands; while rejecting the fact that a free-for-all guns-without restrictions and without accountability will be the greatest addition for criminals to acquire even more guns.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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