Do you support the second amendment?

[JonNC]

I was not the who who said it was unnecessary to worry about gun safety.

Neither did I. I was saying there is no cause for it to be mandatory.

Then again , if we are going to teach gun safety, let’s do it in middle school, including the proper handling, shooting and caring for a firearm. 22 rifles should be the perfect first firearm for them to learn to fire

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Cath13:

.

If the guy was from a foreign country with a funny sounding last name and different religion we would be all over it, But, we do love our guns.

What you call politicizing the deaths is just our discussing the issues around these deaths, because the debate about gun control vs. gun rights is all about deaths. You cannot talk about the issue without referencing deaths.

LeafbyNiggle:

I propose them only hypothetically to illustrate a point and respond to someone’s proposal that we have gun safety classes taught to all in school.

I don’t balk at it. I do object though when this is offered as a substitute for insisting that the adults certify their safety knowledge when they being owning a gun.

Cost prohibitive?

Ask the NRA experts to come in on a volunteer basis and re-assess it later. See how that goes. That will help with costs.

Even with a volunteer, it still takes time out of the day. The teachers have to stand around. The students have to make up the work they didn’t do. It costs, especially since over 80% of those kids will probably never own a gun. So you are going through all that effort for only a few kids’ benefit. And it is unlikely they will remember the rules of their particular state or city regard gun safes, etc., especially when they move. When I moved from Michigan to Minnesota, I had to take a Minnesota drivers knowledge test, even though I was a licensed driver in Michigan. How is a class you saw as a kid in Missouri going to help you know the rules of securing guns in Michigan if you move there?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

I was not the who who said it was unnecessary to worry about gun safety.

Neither did I. I was saying there is no cause for it to be mandatory.

Then again , if we are going to teach gun safety, let’s do it in middle school, including the proper handling, shooting and caring for a firearm. 22 rifles should be the perfect first firearm for them to learn to fire

How does that concern jive with your observation that accidental discharges are minuscule? If they are minuscule, why bother doing anything about it - classes or certification?

 

[JonNC]

How does that concern jive with your observation that accidental discharges are minuscule? If they are minuscule, why bother doing anything about it - classes or certification?

It is minuscule because most people who get firearms do get some training on how to handle a firearm. You can get training at the range, from groups like the NRA. Kids learn from their parents. Spouses from their spouse. Leaf, we don’t need government to do everything for us or make us do stuff.

 

[Cathoholic]

LeafbyNiggle:

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I don’t balk at it.

.

I explicitly did NOT say YOU LeafbyNiggle.

Go back and re-read it. It was a very generalized statement.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

How does that concern jive with your observation that accidental discharges are minuscule? If they are minuscule, why bother doing anything about it - classes or certification?

It is minuscule because most people who get firearms do get some training on how to handle a firearm. You can get training at the range, from groups like the NRA. Kids learn from their parents. Spouses from their spouse. Leaf, we don’t need government to do everything for us or make us do stuff.

Then we don’t need government run schools to indoctrinate kids into the use of guns either.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafbyNiggle:

.

I don’t balk at it.

OK, if you are complaining to me about liberals other than me, you should quote them and complain to them. By quoting me and addressing your comments to me it seems you are either accusing me or holding me responsible for that all my “liberal friends” say.

 

[Cathoholic]

Cath13:

.

At some point, that dog is going to hunt (sic) anymore. Every time people who are rightfully concerned about gun control bring the subject up after a shooting event like this, the pro-gun violence group say . . .

.

What doesn’t “hunt” anymore Cath13 is you using deaths of innocent citizens to advance a political agenda.

What doesn’t “hunt” anymore Cath13 is you impugning people’s motives (“the pro-gun violence group”, “a funny sounding last name”, a “different religion”, etc.).

What doesn’t “hunt” anymore Cath13 is you only presenting PART of the story
(you ignore the largest mass-killings are perpetrated by people in political power,
you ignore the fact that the usual way to stop a bad-guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun-it sounds like one of the parishioners shot the bad guy on the way out. This defensive gunshot MAY have saved police officers lives when the bad guy was finally confronted by the police or more parishioners lives from the bad guy concerning the possibility of him re-entering the church), and
you ignore the grief of freedom-loving Americans that are just as heartbroken as anybody.

What doesn’t “hunt” anymore Cath13 is you blaming the victims (at least in some sense).

But you insist upon taking tragedy and “spraying” insults with your murdering the reputation of many good Americans.

In your bigotry you paint all people who support the Constitution, and broad-brush them ALL as racist, and “pro-violence” (what a shame).

 

[upant]

Then we don’t need government run schools to indoctrinate kids into the use of guns either.

why is this bad if it saves a kids life??

 

[rfournier103]

Fully automatic weapons were banned in the United States in 1986.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

Then we don’t need government run schools to indoctrinate kids into the use of guns either.

why is this bad if it saves a kids life??

I don’t know. Ask JonNC who said we don’t need training from the government. Oh, but I forgot. You can’t challenge him because he agrees with on gun control.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

In your bigotry you…

Please discuss the issues and not each other.

And as far as politicizing the event, talking about gun control is not politicizing. Politicizing would be saying something like "because of this mass shooting, we need to elect so-and-so for governor or mayor or president. Saying that because of this mass shooting we should consider doing something about it is not politicizing.

 

[Cathoholic]

Please discuss the issues and not each other.

I’m not the one who came on here in the wake of a mass-shooting calling all people who refuse to surrender their rights, “pro-violence” and paint them as xenophobic.

I’ll take your admonitions seriously when you apply them with a sense of proportion.

talking about gun control is not politicizing.

What a statement.

This went waaayyy beyond “gun control” and only serves to reinforce that we do NOT surrender our rights to this kind of thinking.

I’m disappointed that you would back up Cath13’s using innocent people’s deaths for cheap political points LeafbyNiggle.

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

LeafByNiggle:

How does that concern jive with your observation that accidental discharges are minuscule? If they are minuscule, why bother doing anything about it - classes or certification?

It is minuscule because most people who get firearms do get some training on how to handle a firearm. You can get training at the range, from groups like the NRA. Kids learn from their parents. Spouses from their spouse. Leaf, we don’t need government to do everything for us or make us do stuff.

Then we don’t need government run schools to indoctrinate kids into the use of guns either.

Or opposition to guns.

 

[Seeksadvice]

Background checks exist. Whoever says they don’t is flat-out lying.

 

[WilliamWalsh]

Fully automatic weapons have been proscribed since 1934.

 

[WilliamWalsh]

Putting a person on a “No Fly List” is tantamount to conviction of a crime without due process. Oh that pesky Constitution.

 

[Theo520]

Former U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee chair Dianne Feinstein said in May 2010: “The no-fly list itself is one of our best lines of defense.”[2] "

I would think it would make sense to have these same precautions set for these same people trying to buy a gun, but apparently not.

I haven’t found Dianne to be much of an expert on anything.
Even devoutly liberal sources don’t agree with her.

No Fly List Grows, Along With Injustice For Those Wrongly Stuck On It | ACLU

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...it-is-a-terrible-tool/?utm_term=.bce49776a251

You can look at the process here,
It’s led by federal agencies, none of which are connected to mental health.

General news

hosted.ap.org

 

[Theo520]

This is more to the point

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Theo520]

So, what would you do to try to prevent tragedies like today’s from happening? As you see it, is the issue gun control or something else that needs to be done?

I don’t know enough about today’s incident to be specific on him. In general I don’t think we are competent in assessing the mental health issues that are behind people doing this stuff. I would funnel research $ to improve this area as a first step.

The guy in Vegas passed all current checks. If he didn’t use guns he could have created simple bombs of similar destruction with what most guys keep in their garage.