Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

[Mickey]

Hey Mickey…

I took your advice. I’m going to a Greek Orthodox Divine Liturgy in Fall River on Sunday. I spoke to the priest. He requested that I not receive the Eucharist and I told him the only reason I would enquire was so as to not show disrespect. He asked me to see him before divine liturgy. He’s aware I intend to remain Catholic…but was interested in speaking to me.

See…I took your advice!

I am certain your experience will be edifying.
God bless you!

May your journey through this Lenten season be fruitful.

 

[spn82756]

I am certain your experience will be edifying.
God bless you!

May your journey through this Lenten season be fruitful.

Thank you my brother in Christ!

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

LOL! This is why there will not be union anytime soon.

I agree with you here. There’s a difference between “primacy” and “supremacy.” The only way the pope should be “supreme” is in his willingness to outdo his brother patriarchs in humility and charity. As long as one church seeks to dominate another there can never be true unity. Still, the recent actions of the Bishops of Rome have not been actions of domination, but of communion. This has been especially true with regards to the popes’ relations with the Eastern Catholic Churches. Sadly, the average church-goer does not (or refuses) to see this. Often I think Roman Catholics, rather than the Bishop of Rome, are the ones seeking to dominate other churches. I know this was my attitude until I was given the grace to accept Eastern Christianity on its own terms. I know also that this is the attitude of many Roman friends of mine. For this, in the spirit of Great Lent, I humbly ask forgiveness of our Orthodox and Eastern Catholic brethren (among whom I am happy now to number myself).

 

[Mickey]

Still, the recent actions of the Bishops of Rome have not been actions of domination, but of communion. This has been especially true with regards to the popes’ relations with the Eastern Catholic Churches.

I agree and disagree. Truly, relations between the Latin Catholic and Eastern Catholic Churches have come a long way since the days of St Alexis Toth. There was a deep glitch with bishop Elko. But there is still a long way to go–and the Orthodox are watching closely. For example, when I was a Ruthenian Catholic, a friend of mine was seriously motivated toward the priesthood. But he was married. He asked the Metropolitan about his chances of being ordained to the priesthood. The Metropolitan answered, and I paraphrase, “Forget about it”.

 

[dvdjs]

… a friend of mine was seriously motivated toward the priesthood. But he was married. He asked the Metropolitan about his chances of being ordained to the priesthood. The Metropolitan answered, and I paraphrase, “Forget about it”. [/QUOTEEven taking this paraphrase at face-value what in the world does it have to do with “relations between the Latin Catholic and Eastern Catholic Churches”.

Orthodox are watching closely

Strains credulity.

 

[Madaglan]

Mickey;6369900:

… a friend of mine was seriously motivated toward the priesthood. But he was married. He asked the Metropolitan about his chances of being ordained to the priesthood. The Metropolitan answered, and I paraphrase, “Forget about it”.

[/QUOTEEven taking this paraphrase at face-value what in the world does it have to do with “relations between the Latin Catholic and Eastern Catholic Churches”.

“Orthodox are watching closely”

Strains credulity.

Really? Haven’t you noticed all the Orthodox posting here on CAF?
[/quote]

 

[glenconnor]

I admire the Orthodox Church a great deal, and I would love it if we could come to union with one another. With all the attacks that the Faith is facing and will face we need to be united and strong.

Seek what unites, not what divides. Pope John XXIII

 

[Mickey]

what in the world does it have to do with “relations between the Latin Catholic and Eastern Catholic Churches”.

If you don’t know, then I’m not gonna be the one to tell ya.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

I agree and disagree. Truly, relations between the Latin Catholic and Eastern Catholic Churches have come a long way since the days of St Alexis Toth. There was a deep glitch with bishop Elko. But there is still a long way to go–and the Orthodox are watching closely. For example, when I was a Ruthenian Catholic, a friend of mine was seriously motivated toward the priesthood. But he was married. He asked the Metropolitan about his chances of being ordained to the priesthood. The Metropolitan answered, and I paraphrase, “Forget about it”.

The Ruthenians in the U.S. are hardly the church to look at when considering relations between Rome and the Christian East. They are probably the most Latinized of the Byzantine churches in the U.S. Most of the Ruthenians that I know are effectively Roman Catholics who happen to “celebrate Mass funny” and have no interest in reuniting with Holy Orthodoxy and no desire that Holy Orthodoxy should reunite with Rome. There are, of course, exceptions to this rule and I’m not really referring to anyone on this forum.

If one wants to know how relations between Rome and the Christian East are going, one should look to the Melkites. They have been the strongest voice within the Catholic Communion for maintaining the authentic Byzantine traditions, theology, liturgy, and discipline. Patriarch Gregorios III himself as denounced the Code of Canon Law for the Eastern Churches as a Roman document, not Eastern. He’s also declared the fundamental equality of the role of the Bishop of Rome and the other Patriarchs in the universal Church. Both of these statements he has made to Pope Benedict’s face in the presence of other bishops. He was not censured.

However, I do agree with you that there is still a long way to go. Most Roman Catholics have no idea who the Eastern Catholics are, and those who happen to know about Eastern Catholics think that they’re just the same as Roman Catholics in all things, except they “celebrate Mass funny.” But there’s also a lot of prejudice and flat out ignorance on the side of Orthodoxy as well. I firmly believe that if we want unity we have to meet face to face in charity, not in mutual distrust.

As far as married priests goes, I’ve heard that there are more married Roman Catholic priests in the U.S. than there are married Eastern Catholic priests. This is a very sad situation, especially since the vocations crisis has touched the Eastern Churches in the U.S. just as much as the Roman Church. I know and have heard of several cases where married men were more than willing to serve Christ and His Church as married priests, but were basically told to “forget about it.” These men could’ve made better priests than many celibate priests that I know. To my knowledge the only Byzantine Church that has been ordaining married men in the U.S. on a regular basis is the Romanian Greek Catholic Church. Nearly half of their priests are married. This is strange since the Romanians are the smallest and poorest of all the Byzantine Catholic Churches in the U.S. (I know their bishop personally. His diocese can’t even afford him his own rectory). The Melkites also have a few married priests, but I was told recently that they don’t normally ordain married men.

 

[Mickey]

The Ruthenians in the U.S. are hardly the church to look at when considering relations between Rome and the Christian East.

If there is ever going to be true reunion, we must look at all the sui juris Churches.

If one wants to know how relations between Rome and the Christian East are going, one should look to the Melkites.

I have great respect for the Melkites

They have been the strongest voice within the Catholic Communion for maintaining the authentic Byzantine traditions, theology, liturgy, and discipline.

Agreed

However, I do agree with you that there is still a long way to go. Most Roman Catholics have no idea who the Eastern Catholics are, and those who happen to know about Eastern Catholics think that they’re just the same as Roman Catholics in all things, except they “celebrate Mass funny.”

Exactly! I was Roman Catholic for over 38 years, and never one time was the existence of the Eastern Church mentioned by the clergy or people. When I finally moved to the Ruthenian Catholics, the Latins could not understand what I had done. I even experienced some prejudice!

As far as married priests goes, I’ve heard that there are more married Roman Catholic priests in the U.S. than there are married Eastern Catholic priests.

I have heard this also. But I do not know the stats.

This is a very sad situation, especially since the vocations crisis has touched the Eastern Churches in the U.S. just as much as the Roman Church. I know and have heard of several cases where married men were more than willing to serve Christ and His Church as married priests, but were basically told to “forget about it.”

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

If there is ever going to be true reunion, we must look at all the sui juris Churches.

I agree completely. I do think, however, that the Melkites in recent Church history have been the best model for unity between East and West. I’m particularly fond of the Zoghby Initiative simply because it’s the only model for unity that I’ve come across that respects the traditions and developments of both East and West while at the same time taking into consideration potential problems and tensions that do come up in lived communion. However, I appreciate the emphasis on lived communion as opposed to working out all doctrinal differences (doctrine being something secondary to dogma).

I have great respect for the Melkites

Agreed

Exactly! I was Roman Catholic for over 38 years, and never one time was the existence of the Eastern Church mentioned by the clergy or people. When I finally moved to the Ruthenian Catholics, the Latins could not understand what I had done. I even experienced some prejudice!

I too was raised Roman Catholic. My poor mother (eternal memory) was greatly concerned when I informed her that my wife and I were becoming Melkite. This was a concern that she took with her to the grave. I think she thought that somehow I was rejecting the Catholic faith. I never saw it as a rejection, but as embracing the Catholic faith as it is expressed in both “Catholicism” and “Orthodoxy”. One of my favorite points that Kyr Zoghby makes is that it is the tradition of both Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism to be in communion with each other. To the extent that we have lost that communion, we have also lost that part of Tradition.

I have heard this also. But I do not know the stats.

 

[Mickey]

I do think, however, that the Melkites in recent Church history have been the best model for unity between East and West.

I’m guessing that you have read the book, “We Are All Schimatics”.

It is very good!

May your journey through this Lenten season be fruitful.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Yes, I’ve read “We Are All Schismatics” as well as his “Ecumenical Reflections” and “A Voice from the Byzantine East.” All of those writings have affected me deeply and challenged me to a greater humility, especially in Catholic-Orthodox relations.

 

[Mickey]

By the way Phillip, I have seen photos of your chotkis.

Quality worksmanship!

Sorry for the derailment.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

I’m glad you like them. I really enjoy making them. I’ve blistered my fingers making them in the past.

 

[Madaglan]

Something which we could do with a lot more of considering some of the er, more polemical posters from both camps who have vented their ire at us over the time I’ve been using this forum. One fellow Catholic who sticks out in my mind was the gent who advised me to make sure to rescue my wife from Hell by rescuing her from a heretical church.And there’s a few like that from both sides of the fence who truly make me want to bang my head at times.

Just don’t look back when you reach the surface.

 

[RickCorcoran195]

This leads to a question. Doesn’t it say something in the Bible that before Christ will come back that his Church will be reunited…or am I getting this impression (or misconception) from Hollywood? But…if it is true, then isn’t the unity inevitable? There have been numerous compromises in my life time among the Catholic church and Protestant religions - and the Orthodox is much closer to Rome on doctrine, especially regarding the sacraments.:irish3:

 

[Mickey]

Or perhaps Lot’s wife?

 

[Mickey]

Oh, I get it now!

 

[guanophore]

I don’t think a union will be possible because the orthodox churches do not accept the doctrine of the catholic church like a priest not to marry and also honouring Mary as the Mother of God.

Since celibacy is not a doctrine, that should not be a problem,

It was the Eastern bishops that coined the term “Theotokos”. The Orthodox honor Mary as the Mother of God.