Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

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sidbrown

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Do you support union with the Orthodox Churches? We often hear that Catholics and Orthodox are so close that full communion should be reestablished. Do you support union with the Orthodox Churches? But perhaps a more interesting question is under
which set of circumstances would you agree to support reunion between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches?
  1. Orthodox Churches interested in union with the Catholic Church must accept all essential Catholic teaching and beliefs, such as papal infallibility, universal papal supremacy, the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption of Mary, and Purgatory.
  2. Orthodox Churches are fully accepted under no pre-conditions and they can continue just as they are now and Catholics and Orthodox can just declare that they are in full Communion with each other without making any changes.
  3. The Catholic Church must accept all of the essential Orthodox teachings as they are and conform its belief to that of the Orthodox Churches.
  4. The Catholics and the Orthodox will meet halfway. Each one gives in a little bit to the other and the union is obtained by the compromise of meeting halfway.
  5. There should not be a union between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches because they are two different Churches.
    I would like to post a poll to see what the response is among those of us interested in Eastern Catholicism. thanks
 
I agree with 2 and 4, I suppose…but it seems impossible.
 
sidbrown said:
Do you support union with the Orthodox Churches? We often hear that Catholics and Orthodox are so close that full communion should be reestablished. Do you support union with the Orthodox Churches? But perhaps a more interesting question is under
which set of circumstances would you agree to support reunion between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches?
  1. Orthodox Churches interested in union with the Catholic Church must accept all essential Catholic teaching and beliefs, such as papal infallibility, universal papal supremacy, the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption of Mary, and Purgatory.
  2. Orthodox Churches are fully accepted under no pre-conditions and they can continue just as they are now and Catholics and Orthodox can just declare that they are in full Communion with each other without making any changes.
  3. The Catholic Church must accept all of the essential Orthodox teachings as they are and conform its belief to that of the Orthodox Churches.
  4. The Catholics and the Orthodox will meet halfway. Each one gives in a little bit to the other and the union is obtained by the compromise of meeting halfway.
  5. There should not be a union between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches because they are two different Churches.
    I would like to post a poll to see what the response is among those of us interested in Eastern Catholicism. thanks
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You need a sixth choice.
Your choices above only deal with who must “give in”.
Their should be union of the two churches based upon whatever agreements the two churches reach in seious and prayerful dialog between East and West.

I am in favor of such union and will accept whatever “Rome” teaches on the matter. I would not see any such teaching or agreement as “giving in” but rather a meeting of minds on essentials and gaining a fuller, and deeper understanding on matters.

Perhaps that is what you are trying to say in choice number 4 but I would not have expressed it so.

Peace
James
 
I think that it will be necessary to discuss the mode of governance for some such proposed union. Sometimes one has to use analogies to get the idea straight.

In political terms would it be a league of some sort? (Like the European Union), a confederation? a federation?

In business terms would it be like a strategic partnership? a Franchise network? a conglomerate?

It may sound stupid right now, but terms like “union” are loaded, and everyone comes into these discussion with pre-existing assumptions and don’t realize that they are often talking right passed one another. We cannot have a ‘re-union’ if we cannot agree on what the original ‘union’ was all about.

What is unity? What was unity when we actually were in communion? What was so different about the first millenium church that we could share communion, and our bishops could concelebrate at the time?

Theology is (of course) a big part of that, and for that this poll is worthwhile, but it bears asking “are we trying to replicate the first millenium church, or are we trying to build on a new model?”
 
I don’t think a union will be possible because the orthodox churches do not accept the doctrine of the catholic church like a priest not to marry and also honouring Mary as the Mother of God.
 
No option to vote my choice.

Both will united fully and are currently in some unity.
 
Kkb said:
I don’t think a union will be possible because the orthodox churches do not accept the doctrine of the catholic church like a priest not to marry and also honouring Mary as the Mother of God.
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It isn’t a doctrine, but rather a discipline, for Catholic priests to not be married. There are, in fact, married Eastern Catholic priests. That won’t be an obstacle towards any reconciliation.
 
Kkb said:
I don’t think a union will be possible because the orthodox churches do not accept the doctrine of the catholic church like a priest not to marry and also honouring Mary as the Mother of God.
Click to expand...
It may not be possible under the existing “understandings” of these things based on 1000 years of independent development

BUT - -

Give men of good will on both sides time to discuss, pray, and seek understanding and, in God’s good time, reunification is entirely possible.

When one speaks of possible union of any two entities, there will always be things that need to be worked out. Sometimes large things and sometimes small ones.
We cannot think just in terms of how we think and express our beliefs today, but in how these beliefs, common to us both, can be more fully understood and expressed in the future. It is about growing together in faith, not about posturing and taking the position, “I’m right and your wrong”.

Let us pray for God’s grace on those charged with discussion between East and West, that they be granted Wisdom and Humble hearts.

Peace
James
 
Kkb said:
I don’t think a union will be possible because the orthodox churches do not accept the doctrine of the catholic church like a priest not to marry and also honouring Mary as the Mother of God.
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**I don’t know where you got this idea, Kkb.

Priests and deacons in the Orthodox Church may not marry either. This is NOT the same thing as a married men may become decons or priests, which is the same DISCLIPINE (not doctrine) as in the Eastern Catholic Churches and even (though they are notable exceptions) in the Latin Church as well.

Furthermore, who do you think came up with the teaching that Mary is Mother of God (properly, Theotokos). It was the Ecumenical Council of EPHESUS, a council held in the EAST, and called by the Emperor (not Pope).**
 
\What is unity? What was unity when we actually were in communion? What was so different about the first millenium church that we could share communion, and our bishops could concelebrate at the time?

Theology is (of course) a big part of that, and for that this poll is worthwhile, but it bears asking “are we trying to replicate the first millenium church, or are we trying to build on a new model?”\

**I agree with you in principle, Michael.

I don’t think we should speak of “union” but “reconciliation” and “restoration of Communion.”

Eastern Catholic ecclesiology is identical to Orthodox ecclesiology: seeing the Church as a communion of Churches.

Rather than saying “replicate”, how does the word “restore” sound?**
 
If this was an Orthodox forum, number 3 would have the most votes. The idea that we really do believe the same things reminds me of the final chapter of 1984 when Winston learns that 2 + 2 can equal 5.
 
I voted option one, and it seems like we are closer now to it than ever before. I will continue praying for this unity, and hope others will join me.
 
I did not vote as none of the options fit what I think must happen.

There would need to be a reunification council where issues would be dealt with.
 
ByzCath said:
I did not vote as none of the options fit what I think must happen.

There would need to be a reunification council where issues would be dealt with.
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Precisely - This is why I did not vote either. None of the optionis fit what the reality of the reunification effort would be.

Peace
James
 
Kkb said:
I don’t think a union will be possible because the orthodox churches do not accept the doctrine of the catholic church like a priest not to marry and also honouring Mary as the Mother of God.
Click to expand...
The Orthodox Church certainly does honor Mary as Mother of God. She is addressed as the Theotokos (God-Bearer).

Everyone: I keep seeing this semantic error. Orthodox Churches and members are Catholic! Catholic is Greek for Universal only. Orthodox is Greek for “Correct Teaching”.

Both the East and West Churches are Orthodox *and *Catholic! 😉

They were unified before the Schism of 1054 (which took many years of discussion before the schism actually occurred). Please remember Jesus started ONE Church. “On you, Peter, I will build my Church.” Not churches.

East and west should re-unify; but there are some things will need working out such as the disagreement on the Nicene Creed; and clergy marriage.
 
sidbrown said:
Do you support union with the Orthodox Churches?
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I want full communion between Catholics and Orthodox to be restored.
JRKH said:
You need a sixth choice… There should be union of the two churches based upon whatever agreements the two churches reach in serious and prayerful dialog between East and West.
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I would prefer this language.
 
Kkb said:
I don’t think a union will be possible because the orthodox churches do not accept the doctrine of the catholic church like a priest not to marry and also honouring Mary as the Mother of God.
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a. a priest not marrying is not a doctrine
b. there are eastern CATHOLIC churches that have married priests

i don’t see why that instance is a problem

and the Orthodox DO honor Mary as the mother of God, that is why they use the title Theotokos, which loosely translates to Mother of God (or more accurately, the god-bearer)
 
i don’t think that one side abandoning their doctrines and accepting the other one’s is the way for union. because that would essentially mean that side has been teaching erroneous doctrine for 1000 years. each side believes they are the true continuation of the Church establish by Jesus and to say they have been teaching erroneous doctrine for 1000 years is a big slap in the face on the bishops down to the followers
 
There were no “pre-conditions” for union for 1000 years, why should it be different today?
 
I often pray for reconciliation between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches :gopray:

What is more of a hurdle for reunification, Papal Infallibility or Papal Supremacy? And is the Catholic Church willing to bend, not break, any of these teachings?
 
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