Do you support union of Catholic and Orthodox Churches?

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Reception of Communion isn’t the entire point of attendance at Liturgy, although it is the climax of that attendance. For this reason Eastern Catholics can “fulfill their obligation” by attendance at Saturday night Vespers or Sunday morning Orthros (Morning Prayer) instead of attendance at the Divine Liturgy. Reducing the fulfillment of one’s “obligation” to the reception of Communion is far from a valid argument for an Eastern Christian, and even for a Roman Catholic with the proper Roman “phronima” as well.

Why do so many Roman Catholics feel threatened by the fact that we can attend an Orthodox Divine Liturgy on Sunday and thereby fulfill our “obligation.” Properly speaking Eastern Christians don’t really think of attendance at Liturgy as “obligation,” any more than they think of one being “obliged” to breath. Plus, if so many canon lawyers, and even Cardinal Schonborn, say that one can fulfill their “obligation” through attendance at an Orthodox Liturgy, why do Catholics not trust them? The Church has given these men a certain amount of authority for a reason.
 
A strong argument can be made that canon 922 of the CIC (1983) can be said to include Orthodox liturgies, so at best it would seem that the question is still an “open” one in terms of the prescriptions of Canon Law.

That said, I have to agree with Phillip about the use of the word “obligation” (emphasis added):
Phillip_Rolfes said:
Why do so many Roman Catholics feel threatened by the fact that we can attend an Orthodox Divine Liturgy on Sunday and thereby fulfill our “obligation.” Properly speaking Eastern Christians don’t really think of attendance at Liturgy as “obligation,” any more than they think of one being “obliged” to breath.
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The concept of “obligation” is alien to Eastern and Oriental tradition. Of course the word is often used, and it seems to me that its very use is one of those latinizations that persist and will just not go away. 😦
 
Jharek
I certainly do not have a problem with Orthodox priests denying Catholics Commnion, in fact I applaud them for there honesty. Others will obviously have different opinions, but my personal belief remains that I cannot fullfill my Sunday obligation in an Orthodox Church, because we have some major theological disagreements.
 
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Well, you’re entitled to think that I suppose. Our late and current Holy Fathers would disagree with you, I believe. If an Eastern Christian cannot be both Orthodox and Catholic, then there is no foundation for Church unity unless one particular church is completely absorbed by the other. So either Rome is going to have to give up her traditions and theological expressions, or Orthodoxy is. One way or the other, that is not communion, that is domination. This problem has been something that the Eastern Catholic Churches have been struggling against since their (re)entry into communion with Rome. The Union of Brest was founded on the agreement that the Eastern Churches (in this case the Church of Kiev) would simply remain what they are, they would just remain such while being in communion with Rome. That communion has obviously not been lived perfectly (hence the idea and unfortunate lived reality of “uniatism” [condemned by Vatican II I might add]), but on an official level the communion was established upon the idea of the Eastern Churches remaining Orthodox, but remaining such in communion with Rome.

Now, this does create a great deal of intellectual tension. But intellectual tension is never a bad thing when matters of faith create that tension. Without the intellectual tension the temptation to believe that we have God “figured out” enters. Once we think that we have God “figured out” then we’ve constructed an idol for ourselves, instead of keeping our eyes fixed on a God who surpasses all intellectual constructs. In this case it is better to remain silent for fear of saying too much (a temptation that I have to struggle against quite a bit). 🙂
 
Jharek
It's been my experience with Orthodox Christians as well, they don't like the term 'Sunday Obligation'. In fairness though, Orthodox, EC's, RC's all miss going to church on Sunday for the very same reasons, i,e they put other things before God. Maybe someone can clue me in on what the Orthodox call it when someone misses Sunday worship without a good reason.
 
Seamus_L said:
It’s been my experience with Orthodox Christians as well, they don’t like the term ‘Sunday Obligation’. In fairness though, Orthodox, EC’s, RC’s all miss going to church on Sunday for the very same reasons, i,e they put other things before God. Maybe someone can clue me in on what the Orthodox call it when someone misses Sunday worship without a good reason.
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Yes, of course the reasons (or, better, excuses) that all “miss” are the same, but it seems to me there is something a bit more involved. In the case of the RCC, there are those who attend primarily because of the “obligation” to do so. Is that really a “good reason” to attend Mass? Maybe I’m wrong, but I would think it preferable for someone to attend because he wants to attend, not because he has an “obligation” to attend.

Sorry to intrude, but I thought I’d toss-in my :twocents:
 
**Why not be united, i mean not all the world is Catholic nor Orthodox, here in Lebanon, there is union between all the Christian parts. So why don’t we be united in ALL the world. I know it is a BIT difficult to unite 3 billion human being, but it is possible if our leaders sit together and decide wether we place our siege in Rome or Greece.

I need you to know that there is no difference at all between Christians,
but the only one is : Catholics say Jesus stretched his hands on the Cross
Orthodox say that Jesus put his hands on the cross.

So Christians are ALL united but there are slight differences in the use of words between us but we still are united in our Catechism teachings and we all believe in Jesus Christ The Lord.

Rome is the siege of Catholics and Mennonites, Greece is the siege of Orthodox,
and the United Kingdom is the siege of the Protestants. America is the siege of Baptists, Iraq is the siege of Chaldeans …

America has 300 million Christians, Brazil has 130 million, Russia has 150 million, China 100 million …

Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists… embrace Christianity because they see love between us, no hate and union.

Thanks for reading
Orthodox Help Club in the Middle East
Don’t let them beat us
We all believe in 1 God
Code: 
           ALLAH=GOD=JESUS
May God be with you Brothers and Sisters!
** :signofcross:
 
Provided Rome has absolutely no say what so ever in regards to how the Divine Liturgy and the various Orthodox traditions are governed or offered. They proved how incompetent they were after Vatican 2 with the destruction of the Roman Liturgy as well as many of the various uses that were mandated to to be changed, like the old Dominican Rite, etc. And the condition that the Pope has absolutely no authority to abrogate any tradition or liturgy that is not of the Roman Rite. In other words allot of pre-conditions.
 
I think it’s more a case of being something which has never been codified into any sort of canon law, and the Orthodox aversion to any such codifications. The same expectation of attending whenever one is able exists. I suppose the distinction is in whether the individual believes they are able to attend the service or not, rather than using a legal code to figure it out.
 
I don’t mean to be critical, but simply stating why we don’t use the same terminology when a pretty much identical thought on the matter exists.
I pray for reunion, and don’t think this will stand in the way. In a united Church the West can have an obligation to attend, and the East can have an expectation to attend. 🙂
 
Sadly I don’t think the West has a monopoly on people not showing up when they should, the population of my own parish magically grows by quite a bit every major holiday. The leader of one of the major national political parties here calls himself “Russian Orthodox” but also admits he never goes to church (Say’s he’s “not a church person”).
 
Nine_Two said:
Sadly I don’t think the West has a monopoly on people not showing up when they should, the population of my own parish magically grows by quite a bit every major holiday.
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Yes. It saddens me. Sometimes I want to shake them and scream, “You do not know what you are missing!”

But of course, I stay quiet and pray. 🙂
 
I really think is time for the Orthodox Christians to come “home.” The mutual anathemas between Rome and Constantinople were revoked about 40 years ago.
 
Young_Thinker said:
I really think is time for the Orthodox Christians to come “home.” The mutual anathemas between Rome and Constantinople were revoked about 40 years ago.
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The problem is that it is not that simple. The exercise of the papacy has changed drastically in that time, and most of the West’s development in philosophy and theology occurred in the scholastic age (which began a century after the split).

The near-millennium of impaired communications has resulted in significantly different understandings of some of the core beliefs of the faith. In my lifetime, I hope to see the beginning of the intense dialogue (like that currently underway with the SSPX) over these differences, but they may very well take another 100 years to come to the point of full communion (not submission). Or if God wills, the process could happen in the next 25, as far as recognition of the Sacraments and shared communion :byzsoc: :crossrc:
 
Young_Thinker said:
I really think is time for the Orthodox Christians to come “home.” The mutual anathemas between Rome and Constantinople were revoked about 40 years ago.
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Why did Rome excommunicate the Orthodox in the first place?
 
its time for everybody to “Come Home” and this WILL happen by The Power of The Holy Spirit…“when the saints go marching in…Oh I want to be in that number…when the saints go marching in…” As someone raised in BOTH churches…every family meal at our house is a meeting of East+West…sure peas are thrown every now and then…and someone gets a time out…but in Our House…there is room for everyone…even if the kids eat at their own table…😃
 
Nine_Two said:
Sadly I don’t think the West has a monopoly on people not showing up when they should, the population of my own parish magically grows by quite a bit every major holiday. The leader of one of the major national political parties here calls himself “Russian Orthodox” but also admits he never goes to church (Say’s he’s “not a church person”).
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However, his dad definitely was a church person. Check out the anecdote in the first paragraph…

orthodoxytoday.org/articles5/LazarChristianity.php
 
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