Do You Tell Other's Secrets to Your Spouse?

[shipwrkd]

It’s a popular thing on CAF, to try to put fault on other people as much as you possibly can. That’s what’s going on here. Never turn down the opportunity to point a finger and say “you’re sinning!” Take any and all excuses possible to be able to say that.

“Oh, she/he was ignorant? It never crossed her/his mind that there is a chance that what they are doing may somehow end up upsetting someone else in some way? Well then that person is just selfish and inconsiderate for never having thought to check!”

Not me, I’m responsible for everything I say and it’s all MY fault and I’m definitely the biggest sinner here. I’m taking blame for ANY hard feelings and if you choose to share that with your spouse you may unless you don’t want to…that’s fine too. :thumbsup::bowdown2::flowers:

 

[shipwrkd]

You were making a negative assumption about people who are open with their spouse about everything… and I am one of those people. So naturally I am going to respond to something like this.

The “perhaps” in front of the statement meant nothing???

Originally Posted by Baelor
I do not disagree that they are naive and ignorant. At some point, however, that becomes the result of continued lack of consideration for others.

Being naive and ignorant is a result of continued lack of consideration for others? What??

Now your in trouble, Baelor

I should go now:tiphat:

 

[SoDakTim]

When I tell a married or otherwise very committed friend something I always assume it goes without saying that they will tell their partner, but that it will go no further.

I would NEVER assume that it will go no further. If you tell someone something in confidence, and they tell someone else, even their spouse, there is little guarantee that it will not go further.

 

[Bookcat]

Here is another explanation of secrets by a Dominican Moral Theologian of high repute: Fr. Benedict Ashley OP

“Secrets are either natural (when they are about matters people ordinarily expect to be kept private), or promised (when the receiver of the information has promised not to reveal what is told), or professional (when the receiver is a confessor, counselor, lawyer, etc whose office binds them to maintain confidentiality)”

“It is wrong to explore, manifest, or use secret information. A secret can be manifested (a) with at least reasonably presumed consent of the person involved; or (b) to someone who already knows; or (c) in order to prevent grave harm to the common good, or to the one who committed it, or to oneself.”

(and of course he states that confessional secrets are absolute).

“Living the Truth in Love”, Alba House 1996 Pg 414 (he gets more in to professional secrets in the book…which is a one worthy of ones library)

 

[Debora123]

The “perhaps” in front of the statement meant nothing???

I know you said “perhaps”… I know you said it’s “your opinion”…

So it goes back to one of my first comments on your post… It’s best not to publicly state a negative opinion regarding something you know nothing about… ie- the marriage of people who share secrets.

 

[thewanderer]

Yes there can be valid reasons --like urgent public good etc… **I do not see sharing with ones spouse as being a valid reason **and I do not think one will find such suggested in any work of moral theology. The same kinds of “objectively valid reasons” that would apply in my telling Bob a secret – would be needful for my telling my wife.

I just want to clarify that I do not see that as a valid reason either, that is the action in question that we are talking about, it is not the reason for the action.

 

[shipwrkd]

I know you said “perhaps”… I know you said it’s “your opinion”…

So it goes back to one of my first comments on your post… It’s best not to publicly state a negative opinion regarding something you know nothing about… ie- the marriage of people who share secrets.

One very, very last time. This was the original post.

I’m just asking out of curiosity. I have never had this issue come up in real life and I don’t foresee it being an issue.** I just wondered what the thoughts on it were** because it seems like an interesting question.

I gave my thoughts. If you go through ANY thread in CAF, you’ll find people giving opinions on things they know nothing about, I think that’s why they call it a forum. Again, one very, very last time. IF I’VE OFFENDED YOU…I’M SORRY. Please, give it a rest.

 

[Bookcat]

I just want to clarify that I do not see that as a valid reason either, that is the action in question that we are talking about, it is not the reason for the action.

Ok. Sure - just like there can be valid reasons to reveal a secret to someone who is not your spouse there could be potentially a reason to reveal a secret to ones spouse.

For the reasons where one can potentially morally do so see: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10479091&postcount=474

 

[BlueEyedLady]

There have been a lot of posts on the morality of secret sharing with spouses, and many of the links posted have been interesting reads.

But I don’t think that the gap between the two sides lies in the issue of whether or not secrets, professional, natural, whatever should morally be kept. I think that the issue lies with some people, myself included, thinking that telling a spouse doesn’t count, and that in a marriage it really couldn’t be immoral to tell your spouse something. And of course, the other side thinks that telling your spouse does count as breaking a confidence, and that there are circumstances (someone else has confided in you, you have discovered a “natural secret”, etc) where it would actually be immoral to tell your spouse.

That last part is where my hangup is. I don’t think that I’m morally obligated to share everything with him (everything important and pertinent to our lives certainly), but I don’t think that there is anything that would actively be immoral for me to share with him, and that concept is what I can’t get my mind around.

 

[thewanderer]

Ok. Sure - just like there can be valid reasons to reveal a secret to someone who is not your spouse there could be potentially a reason to reveal a secret to ones spouse.

For the reasons where one can potentially morally do so see: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10479091&postcount=474

I understand that it is your opinion that those are the only circumstances in which it is moral to do so. However, since there is no official Church position on what the circumstances necessary to make such a situation moral, I am not obliged to agree with you here. I am not, nor could I ever be, one to agree with something just because it is an opinion espoused by another, even by a very holy person, if it contradicts what my own reason and carefully formed coscience leads me to see as true. To do so would be to reject the gift of reason that God has given me and would, essentially, be a rejection of both this great gift and the responsiblity that comes along with it, so I am going to have to continue to disagree with you here, and, as I indicated earlier, I have every moral right to do so and even to act on my opinions of this matter, as the Church teaches that we are to use our reason and our carefully formed consciences to determine our actions in quiestions where there is no official Church teacing. The only reason I replied again to your post was to correct your misrepresentation of my opinion on this matter.

 

[PatriceA]

Am I right in thinking by your ID that your husband has an “interesting” job and travels a lot but can’t or would rather not tell you of all the stuff that goes on in his life…and that he would be pretty good at popping skwerlz?

Are you a squirrel killer??

 

[Bookcat]

I understand that it is your opinion that those are the only circumstances in which it is moral to do so. However, since there is no official Church position on what the circumstances necessary to make such a situation moral, I am not obliged to agree with you here. I am not, nor could I ever be, one to agree with something just because it is an opinion espoused by another, even by a very holy person, if it contradicts what my own reason and carefully formed coscience leads me to see as true. To do so would be to reject the gift of reason that God has given me and would, essentially, be a rejection of both this great gift and the responsiblity that comes along with it, so I am going to have to continue to disagree with you here, and, as I indicated earlier, I have every moral right to do so and even to act on my opinions of this matter, as the Church teaches that we are to use our reason and our carefully formed consciences to determine our actions in quiestions where there is no official Church teacing. The only reason I replied again to your post was to correct your misrepresentation of my opinion on this matter.

As you know the Magisterium does necessarily get into explaining all possible moral questions but leaves much to Orthodox Moral Theologians to reason and reflect about and discuss (though certainly the Magisterium has had various things to say on the subject over the centuries–I do not at the moment have the time nor the library to search out all that may have been said so I have relied on what I have presented).

What I have presented is I would say a good representation of Catholic Moral Teaching on the matter of secrets – as one can read in various perennial and even more recent sources of Catholic Moral Theology. Could more be added? Perhaps. But that is certainly a good start and a good summary.

I bid you a blessed eventide and let us pray for Pope Francis and Benedict XVI Pope Emeritus and for the joy of all the faithful this day!

 

[thewanderer]

There have been a lot of posts on the morality of secret sharing with spouses, and many of the links posted have been interesting reads.

But I don’t think that the gap between the two sides lies in the issue of whether or not secrets, professional, natural, whatever should morally be kept. I think that the issue lies with some people, myself included, thinking that telling a spouse doesn’t count, and that in a marriage it really couldn’t be immoral to tell your spouse something. And of course, the other side thinks that telling your spouse does count as breaking a confidence, and that there are circumstances (someone else has confided in you, you have discovered a “natural secret”, etc) where it would actually be immoral to tell your spouse.

That last part is where my hangup is. I don’t think that I’m morally obligated to share everything with him (everything important and pertinent to our lives certainly), but I don’t think that there is anything that would actively be immoral for me to share with him, and that concept is what I can’t get my mind around.

Well, I’m not actually sure if I line up neatly with either of those two positions, at least as presented.

For one, I know that I can’t say that it is never immoral to tell somthing to your spouse… breaking a just law from a legitimate authority is immoral, as is lying to someone or breaking your promise to them, so, at the very least it would be immoral to clearly tell someone you won’t tell anyone, not even your husband, and then to go on and so anyway, or to spread information protected legally by confidentiality laws. I kind of thought you agreed about these situations though, so perhaps you just weren’t thinking of them when you made the above division?

It seems to me like the real question here is about natural secrets, as Bookcat has called them. Is there such a thing as information which, simply because of what it is, should not be told to anybody without a good reason. I take it, BEL, that you believe this doesn’t exist, as you believe that there would always be the exception of ones spouse? I actually agree with Bookcat that such “natural secrets” do exist, but that the importance of the unity between husband and wife can sometimes be sufficient reason for at least some of the information to be shared, not because the spouse has a right to the information, but because the spouse has a right to understand what his/her spouse is thinking/feeling etc and a refusal to share oneself and ones thoughts/emotions can bring harmful disunity to a couples married relationship in which they are supposed to be united as one, not just physically, but emotionally and spiritually as well. However, especially the more I think about it and the more clearly I understand my position on it, I really don’t think that that justifies the telling of every and anything, and that gossip can exist between married couples. And that doesn’t change my opinion about spouses not keeping secrets from each other, not gossiping is not at all the same as keeping a secret from ones spouse, basically, its just not telling your spouse something that noone, even yourself, had any right to know in the first place.

Anyway, just adding in some more thoughts on the matter.

 

[thewanderer]

As you know the Magisterium does necessarily get into explaining all possible moral questions but leaves much to Orthodox Moral Theologians to reason and reflect about and discuss (though certainly the Magisterium has had various things to say on the subject over the centuries–I do not at the moment have the time nor the library to search out all that may have been said so I have relied on what I have presented).

What I have presented is I would say a good representation of Catholic Moral Teaching on the matter of secrets – as one can read in various perennial and even more recent sources of Catholic Moral Theology. Could more be added? Perhaps. But that is certainly a good start and a good summary.

I bid you a blessed eventide and let us pray for Pope Francis and Benedict XVI Pope Emeritus and for the joy of all the faithful this day!

Yes, and we are free to disagree with said moral theologians when our reason and well-formed conscience tells us they are wrong, or even just missing something and so making over generalizations etc.

I do actually agree that it is a good start, but I believe it is incomplete as it leaves out at least one good valid reason for sharing natural secrets.

Thanks for the good wishes, it really is good news.

 

[shipwrkd]

Are you a squirrel killer??

I know nothing about such things…must be some other guy

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Well, I’m not actually sure if I line up neatly with either of those two positions, at least as presented.

For one, I know that I can’t say that it is never immoral to tell somthing to your spouse… breaking a just law from a legitimate authority is immoral, as is lying to someone or breaking your promise to them, so, at the very least it would be immoral to clearly tell someone you won’t tell anyone, not even your husband, and then to go on and so anyway Yes, I agree, it would be immoral for me to tell someone that I won’t tell anyone, not even him and do so anyway. But I think that it would be immoral for me to make that promise in the first place. , or to spread information protected legally by confidentiality laws. I think those laws are stupid and wrong, but I wouldn’t break them. I kind of thought you agreed about these situations though, so perhaps you just weren’t thinking of them when you made the above division? Yeah, when I made the above statement I wasn’t including legally protected stuff because I didn’t think of it at the time and I don’t really count that in what we’re talking about. That’s professional stuff, not the actual, personal things that I think should be sharable.

It seems to me like the real question here is about natural secrets, as Bookcat has called them. Is there such a thing as information which, simply because of what it is, should not be told to anybody without a good reason. I take it, BEL, that you believe this doesn’t exist, as you believe that there would always be the exception of ones spouse? I do believe that natural secrets exist, although I’ve never heard that phrase used before. But I don’t think that telling your spouse a natural secret “counts” as telling someone. I think that once married your spouse becomes and extension of you. I actually agree with Bookcat that such “natural secrets” do exist, but that the importance of the unity between husband and wife can sometimes be sufficient reason for at least some of the information to be shared, not because the spouse has a right to the information, but because the spouse has a right to understand what his/her spouse is thinking/feeling etc and a refusal to share oneself and ones thoughts/emotions can bring harmful disunity to a couples married relationship in which they are supposed to be united as one, not just physically, but emotionally and spiritually as well. However, especially the more I think about it and the more clearly I understand my position on it, I really don’t think that that justifies the telling of every and anything, and that gossip can exist between married couples. I still disagree on that one. And that doesn’t change my opinion about spouses not keeping secrets from each other, not gossiping is not at all the same as keeping a secret from ones spouse, basically, its just not telling your spouse something that noone, even yourself, had any right to know in the first place.

Anyway, just adding in some more thoughts on the matter.

 

[boymama]

Absolutely not. I assume if I am told a secret it is for no one else’s ears not even my husband.

Only once have I asked permission to share a secret with my husband, and that was because I thought he could be helpful.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

 

[SwizzleStick]

Ok, so I have a question and I really, really wish that a few of the regulars weren’t out for Lent right now, but anyway:

Do you tell your spouse things that other people (friends and relatives) in confidence? …

No. If it is shared in confidence, it stays that way. I have no right to betray that confidence, even to my spouse.

 

[cviolette]

No. If it is shared in confidence, it stays that way. I have no right to betray that confidence, even to my spouse.

I feel the same way.

 

[Bookcat]

As you know the Magisterium does not necessarily get into explaining all possible moral questions but leaves much to Orthodox Moral Theologians to reason and reflect about and discuss (though certainly the Magisterium has had various things to say on the subject over the centuries–I do not at the moment have the time nor the library to search out all that may have been said so I have relied on what I have presented).

What I have presented is I would say a good representation of Catholic Moral Teaching on the matter of secrets – as one can read in various perennial and even more recent sources of Catholic Moral Theology. Could more be added? Perhaps. But that is certainly a good start and a good summary.

I bid you a blessed eventide and let us pray for Pope Francis and Benedict XVI Pope Emeritus and for the joy of all the faithful this day!

Yes, and we are free to disagree with said moral theologians when our reason and well-formed conscience tells us they are wrong, or even just missing something and so making over generalizations etc.

I do actually agree that it is a good start, but I believe it is incomplete as it leaves out at least one good valid reason for sharing natural secrets.

Thanks for the good wishes, it really is good news.

Upon further reflection I wish to add:

I would note that yes such as noted can be said to be a good start and also note that the earlier links were from a Catholic Dictionary --and thus yes I agree one can get into the matter of secrets to much greater lengths --and that I imagine the author of the other source quoted could have gone into much more detail say in his courses on moral theology. Perhaps even on the subject at hand.

So I will concede that more can be said in terms of he matter of sharing of certain secrets between spouses (at least at times and under perhaps particular reasons – that perhaps various orthodox moral theologians could further discuss at length --elaborating more principles that would or could be applicable to such).