Do you tell Time by an argument? Why judge an argument by using a clock?

[patg]

dcdurel:

That is why you need to study what the Church teaches. Biblical scholars and theologians seldom have a good understanding of what the Church teaches. And Church teachings come from God, through the apostles. Biblical scholars pick up their ideas from other men and their own reasoning.

That is why I have studied the current, primary church documents on biblical interpretaion and have faith that my understanding is correct.

I said that Jesus did not have to suffer and die, and that just be becoming man He could have redeemed all of us. This is true, because God can do anything. But, he freely chose to suffer and die for our salvation. It was not required.

Again, that is not the salvation history taught by the church.

 

[patg]

javelin:

I am in the middle of a book entitled “The Rapture Trap” by Dr. Thigpen. In several chapters early in the book, he gives a wonderful explanation of the basic tenents of Christianity, from a Catholic perspective, that addresses why Jesus needed to come to Earth as a man, what He did while He was here, and what the purpose of His passion really was. He goes on to describe the purpose of our current age and what must still come to pass (Why does Jesus need to come back anyways?). I found it very well laid-out and engaging.

I believe he answers very clearly some of the problems you seem to be expressing regarding the Christian Gospel.

While it may certainly be nothing new to you, it is only a few chapters and worth the read.

Peace,
javelin

Thanks, I’m always ready to explore additional perpectives.

 

[Kay_Cee]

patg:

Maybe - we don’t know for sure. But then it doesn’t really matter as it is a fact that our understanding of God has developed and changed greatly.

Yes, our understanding of God changes. But if God Himself changes, everything is up for grabs. What’s sinful today might not be sinful tomorrow. What’s sinful tomorrow might not be sinful today. It does really matter if God changes or not!

It is a teaching of the Church that God does not change.

Hey, he left people in charge and boy do they make mistakes.

Agreed, but beside the point. God knew there would be both tares and wheat.

Maybe He’s not - there’s no way to know for sure.

There’s no way to know for sure that God is not a liar?

If the ancient people had it so "right’ we would all be Jewish! And yes, our understanding of truth, just as our understanding of God has developed and changed greatly

The Church is the fulfillment of Judaism. Jesus came to fulfill the law, not to abolish it. Of course our understand of truth develops. It’s called The Development of Doctrine. Truth, however, does not change.

I can come to a lot better conclusions than you - conclusions that don’t pretend the church is destroyed by allowing for non-historical interpretations of the bible or misplaced concepts of inerrancy. I can read the church documents on the bible and understand the church’s recognition that there is much in the bible that is not factual history and that inerrancy applies to matters of faith, morals, and salvation.

Well, now I’m just plain confused. Didn’t you say above that the more you study “the less impressed I am with the traditional history/inerrancy crowd”?

I don’t pretend the Church is destroyed. I agree that inerrancy applies to matters of faith, morals, and salvation.

The four points I made are intended as outcomes of your statement that you are “less impressed” with the inerrancy crowd.

I’m unsure now which side of the argument you agree with. Do you think the Church is destroyed but despite that you understand “the church’s recognition that there is much in the bible that is not factual history and that inerrancy applies to matters of faith, morals, and salvation”?

 

[Kay_Cee]

patg:

It occurred to me, after posting the above, that maybe you and I are talking past each other.

Let me ask you this. Beliefs are always based on something. On what do you base your beliefs, and by what authority do you know this basis is true?