Do you think Free Masonry is dangerous to the church?

[Marilena]

I do. I have been doing alot of reading on this subject lately. They want to infiltrate our church and change it. Do you also think Liberalism is dangerous the the Catholic faith? If you’ve read books on the Free Mason threat to the church, what book have you read about it? If you think Liberalism is dangerous to our faith, please
post why. I know I do not like the idea of anything being changed.
Iam not for married priests, female cardinals or priests, female
altar servers, hand clapping in church, holding hands during prayer.
ext. I think the traditions of the church should be kept in place.
To many things have changed from the old times. Do you think the
Catholic Church should preserve the old traditions? Not change with
the times?

 

[Marilena]

Here is a link:

Oath against Modernism:

Pope Saint Pius X issued this mandatory oath on September 1, 1910. It was mandated to be sworn to by all clergy, pastors, confessors, preachers, religious superiors, and professors in philosophical-theological seminaries.

dailycatholic.org/oathvmod.htm

HUMANUM GENUS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON FREEMASONRY

vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18840420_humanum-genus_en.html

PASCENDI DOMINICI GREGIS

ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS X
ON THE DOCTRINES
OF THE MODERNISTS

vatican.va/holy_father/pius_x/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-x_enc_19070908_pascendi-dominici-gregis_en.html

 

[Anim8]

Marilena:

I do. I have been doing alot of reading on this subject lately. They want to infiltrate our church and change it. Do you also think Liberalism is dangerous the the Catholic faith? If you’ve read books on the Free Mason threat to the church, what book have you read about it? If you think Liberalism is dangerous to our faith, please
post why.

I don’t know much about free masons, just that they are a secret sociaty bent on the destruction of the Catholic Church, and that there is a masons loge near my house (about a mile away).

Are masons a threat? Well based on what little I know about them I would say yes. Most definitly.

Are liberals a threat? Well they seem to be for just about everything the Catholic Church teaches against (abortion, homosexual relations ect.) and they are trying to force us with laws to accept these types of things. So I would say yes, they too are a threat.

Marilena:

I know I do not like the idea of anything being changed.
Iam not for married priests, female cardinals or priests,

Agreed.

Marilena:

female
altar servers, hand clapping in church, holding hands during prayer.

Well I don’t see anything wrong with these so long as they don’t distract people from the mass.

Marilena:

I think the traditions of the church should be kept in place.
To many things have changed from the old times. Do you think the
Catholic Church should preserve the old traditions? Not change with
the times?

It depends on what you mean by change. If you mean singing slightly more upbeat songs and little things like that (so long as they are legitamate) I don’t really see any problems. But not any major changes no.

 

[Marilena]

Anim8:

"I don’t know much about free masons, just that they are a secret sociaty bent on the destruction of the Catholic Church, and that there is a masons loge near my house (about a mile away).

Are masons a threat? Well based on what little I know about them I would say yes. Most definitly.

Are liberals a threat? Well they seem to be for just about everything the Catholic Church teaches against (abortion, homosexual relations ect.) and they are trying to force us with laws to accept these types of things. So I would say yes, they too are a threat. "

Agreed!!
.

 

[rwoehmke]

Historically the Free Masons were very anti-Catholic. What set Pius X off was the fact that when Italy was formed into a nation they were involved also in taking the Papal States away from the Papacy. In the U.S. today, I think they probably give no more than a passing thought to the Catholic Church. They do however have certain rites and practices which Catholics would consider almost pagan in nature so to be a Free Mason a Catholic would be practicing another faith. Ergo we do not join. The YMCA was once much more of a religous organization, but has become more like a health club with few if any of the old religous trappings. Liberals also used to be those who were for no interference by government in business matters, then the democracy of enlightened France received the label. Those liberals believed that God and Morality based on God had no place in peoples lives. Today it seems we have come half circle and liberals are those who want to change everything. Along with the term conservative It has become a meaningless label, one or the other of which is applied to those who are goring your particular Ox.

 

[buffalo]

Yes.

**Freemasons

** The Catholic Church and Freemasonry have been at odds for centuries. Eight popes have condemned it, as well as have the majority of Christian denominations. Christianity and Freemasonry hold contrary beliefs. Catholics are forbidden to join the Lodge in the strongest of terms. The Church’s position is expressed in its “Declaration on Masonic Associations.” It states in part: "Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged, since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church, and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion."

Despite the Church’s clear rejection of Freemasonry, Catholics are falsely told that they can join the Lodge without compromising their faith. The evidence shows that Freemasonry is itself a religion, although Masons will deny that this is so. The “New Catholic Encyclopedia” states that “Freemasonry displays all the elements of religion, and as such it becomes a rival to the religion of the Gospel. It includes temples and altars, prayers, a moral code, worship, vestments, feast days, the promise of reward and punishment in the afterlife, a hierarchy, and initiative and burial rites” (vol. 6, page 137).

more…

 

[Orionthehunter]

Marilena:

I do. I have been doing alot of reading on this subject lately. They want to infiltrate our church and change it. Do you also think Liberalism is dangerous the the Catholic faith? If you’ve read books on the Free Mason threat to the church, what book have you read about it? If you think Liberalism is dangerous to our faith, please
post why. I know I do not like the idea of anything being changed.
Iam not for married priests, female cardinals or priests, female
altar servers, hand clapping in church, holding hands during prayer.
ext. I think the traditions of the church should be kept in place.
To many things have changed from the old times. Do you think the
Catholic Church should preserve the old traditions? Not change with
the times?

Christ promised that the Gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church. The free masons are just a gnat. This being said, I think Buffalo’s post on Free Masons is right on. I’ve been to a Free Mason funeral and I felt like I was at a pagan service. They are a definite threat to individual souls.

 

[Dan-Man916]

this topic frustrates me.
I’ve read a lot of the books about how dangerous freemasonry is.

I have a good friend, who came into the Church as a Byzantine Catholic about 5 years ago. Before that, he was a 32nd degree freemason.

I talked to him about these symbols of being blindfolded and the symbolism of being enlightened through the secrets and all of that.

He laughed at me because he said that the books really misconstrued a lot of those things, and that the freemasons were just a bunch of old men who got together for meetings toget awway from their wives, and while there was plenty of symbolism, he didn’t know anyone who took any of it seriously.

He left the lodge before he joined the Church, and he is a pretty devout Byzantine Catholic, so i have no reason to doubt his faith. In fact, he is quite zealous in his faith to the point where he has considered Orthodoxy. He is quite traditional.

So i really don’t know what to believe of all of this. someone who was there, and left because it had nothing to give him spiritually or otherwise, or all of the books. They seem so conspiratorial, and conspiracy sells nowadays.

 

[Marilena]

Anim8:

“Are liberals a threat? Well they seem to be for just about everything the Catholic Church teaches against (abortion, homosexual relations ect.) and they are trying to force us with laws to accept these types of things. So I would say yes, they too are a threat.”

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS
TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION
TO UNIONS
BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.htm

 

[Thal59]

Concerning the actual question:

“Do you think Free Masonry is dangerous to the church?” I would have to say no. It may have different philosophies, and it may at times seem to be set against the church, as a number of Protestant churches are, but I would not consider them to be a danger.

In simpler terms, Freemasons are on the decline and they have never been a unified entity. Beliefs and practices vary from lodge to lodge. I would be more apt to say that Free Masonry is dangerous to itself; or at least to its members.

Carl Switzer, who was the child actor who played Alfalfa on the Little Rascals, was from a Masonic family. Their particular view of the world was that they were not beholden to any external source regarding what to believe, or who to be subject to. They did not accept organized government as they did not feel any such instituion had the right to tell them what to do. They did not accept organized educational institutions as they believed no one had the right to determine what they should think, or what their children should think. They did not accept organized religion; they could believe whatever they wished to believe.

Then end result was that their sons Carl and Harold, both Little Rascals, did not have a very good idea as to what was right or wrong. Carl could be very mean-spirited at times, and I have read how some of the Rascals, such as Darla, were afraid of him.

This led to two unhappy events in their lives. Carl was shot to death by his business partner when he was 31. Harold, several years after that when he was about 42, got into a fight with a man and killed him. Harold then fled to a secluded shack in the woods that he knew of and he killed himself.

This is the glorious result of fallen man living life with the utter certainty that he knows what is best for him in all avenues of life. One murdered, and the other a murder-suicide.

Thal59

 

[mosher]

In the United States, Canada and England it is not a threat to the Church. Freemasonry has not creed that is directly anti-Catholic in fact it is un-masonic to judge a person based on their religion. However, Lodges in other countries such as South America and in Continental Europe they have been used in the past and I assume also presently as places of strong anti-Catholic sentiment. We had a thread on this a while back and I reiterate my point - most anti-masonic books are absurd especially by so called “former-masons.” Generally the problem with freemasonry is much more esoteric and deeply philosophical than what most people think.

 

[Marilena]

buffalo:

Yes.

Freemasons

The Catholic Church and Freemasonry have been at odds for centuries. Eight popes have condemned it, as well as have the majority of Christian denominations. Christianity and Freemasonry hold contrary beliefs. Catholics are forbidden to join the Lodge in the strongest of terms. The Church’s position is expressed in its “Declaration on Masonic Associations.” It states in part: "Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged, since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church, and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion."

Despite the Church’s clear rejection of Freemasonry, Catholics are falsely told that they can join the Lodge without compromising their faith. The evidence shows that Freemasonry is itself a religion, although Masons will deny that this is so. The “New Catholic Encyclopedia” states that “Freemasonry displays all the elements of religion, and as such it becomes a rival to the religion of the Gospel. It includes temples and altars, prayers, a moral code, worship, vestments, feast days, the promise of reward and punishment in the afterlife, a hierarchy, and initiative and burial rites” (vol. 6, page 137).

more…

 

[Dan-Man916]

mosher:

and I reiterate my point - most anti-masonic books are absurd especially by so called “former-masons.” Generally the problem with freemasonry is much more esoteric and deeply philosophical than what most people think.

that was pretty much the idea that I was given as well.

 

[Patrick2340]

I agree that Masonic lodges in the United States are little more than fraternal organizations. My father-in-law is a 32nd degree Mason and has always treated me with the greatest respect. He didn’t even wince when my wife converted to the Faith last year.

I don’t have much knowledge of Freemasonry in other countries, except to suggest reading “Blood Drenched Altars” by the Most Rev. Francis Kelly. This book details the cruely and oppression of the Masonic government in Mexico.

 

[Maureen_Fiore]

I have a boss who belongs to the Free Masons. He tells me that they are a group of people who do good things for people. I try not to talk too much to him about them because I feel they are anti-Catholic. He is a Methodist and whenever we have the slightest conversation regarding my faith (I am Catholic) his tone is very negative. So, based on this I too feel this organization is anti-Catholic.

 

[mosher]

Maureen Fiore:

I have a boss who belongs to the Free Masons. He tells me that they are a group of people who do good things for people. I try not to talk too much to him about them because I feel they are anti-Catholic. He is a Methodist and whenever we have the slightest conversation regarding my faith (I am Catholic) his tone is very negative. So, based on this I too feel this organization is anti-Catholic.

It is my stongly held belief that freemasonry is anti-catholic by accident and not by necessity. What I mean by this is that it is because there are theoretically no catholics who are members of freemasonry to correct erronious beliefs of masons who bring their bias against catholics from outside the lodge what you find is a group of men who are not catholic who do not understand catholicism that have the same biasis that exist among other jews and protestants. So, I think that it is not that they are anti-catholic because they are freemasons but rather they are anti-cathilic because they are nnot catholic and the wold have the same ideas if they were not masons. There is nothing intrinsic to freemasonry that is inherently anti-catholic. However, I will admitt that there are some things that are difficult in the thinking of freemasonry hecause of the influence of humanism. Also, there are some definate issues with the Scottish Rite but that was discussed in the previous thread on freemasonry.

 

[Rebecca_New]

Free Masonry is not a danger to the Church. The gates of hell shall not prevail. Of course Free Masonry is dangerous to it members-when someone has really been an emotional mess and I find out they are Free Masons I have to say, “oh, that explains it.”

 

[mosher]

Rebecca New:

Free Masonry is not a danger to the Church. The gates of hell shall not prevail. Of course Free Masonry is dangerous to it members-when someone has really been an emotional mess and I find out they are Free Masons I have to say, “oh, that explains it.”

I appreciate your tongue in cheek but the reality is that one of the central “teachings” of freemasonry is to subdue ones passions which we know by the spiritual masters and through theology is one of the necessary actions to achieve sainthood. Freemasonry does not cause or create weak-mindedness nor emotional deconstruction but is rather a tool of the practice of the natural virtues because of the common belief in God, the Supreme Being … etc.

Again, the problem is very esoteric and not on the surface but is rather a problem with some possible conclusions that can be taken by the imagery used in the degrees in the Blue Lodge and some diffculty in the philosophy of the Scottish Rite.

 

[havemercy]

Freemasonry looks fun from the outside and the very surface, but it is evil and ugly on the inside.

Dan-Man916:

I have a good friend, who came into the Church as a Byzantine Catholic about 5 years ago.

GOOD.

 

[Anonimous]

I do not want to take either of the two extremes that have been suggested thus far…

1. That Freemasons are merely a bunch of buddies doing charity work and enjoying a cold beer to get away from the wife
2. That Freemasons are the devil incarnate

Therefore, having said that. I would also like to avoid the “gray area” approach that is often taken by people who “really don’t know much bout dis stuff” (my phrase)

I have read much about the history of Freemasonry. They were founded to destroy the Church almost from the outset. Going back to the Early Church Fathers we see the condemnation of many of the writings that Freemasons later picked up and propagated through their doctrines and their rituals. Therefore, YES Freemasonry is a religion, and NO Catholics should have be part of it…
<<< ALTHOUGH THEY WILL DENY THAT THEY ARE A RELIGION>>> (most “lower degree” Masons don’t even know the HISTORY OF FREEMASONRY…so in that regard they are like blind sheep wandering further and further astray)

HOWEVER, there is another REALITY… Namely, that unbeknownst to them… MANY Catholics have joined this “fraternal organization” WITHOUT full-knowledge that they were going against the LONG-STANDING teaching of the Church… Therefore, according to the Church’s teaching on GRAVE SIN… this DOES NOT APPLY to Catholics today who joined Freemasonry. For example, it would be a MORTAL SIN for ME to join because I KNOW THE HISTORY OF THE CHURCH’S TEACHING ON THIS TOPIC and I KNOW THE HISTORY OF FREEMASONRY’S ANTI-CATHOLIC STANCE… but like I said before, MOST “Catholic Freemasons” don’t know that they are GOING AGAINST CHURCH TEACHING so they cannot be said to have “FULL-KNOWLEDGE” and therefore FULL-CONSENT OF THE WILL" (if they did this would be another issue).

If fact, I have only seen posts regarding 32nd DEGREE Freemasons (a couple people mentioned their father’s, husbands, or relatives and friends, etc)… HOWEVER, many of the “lower degrees” are NOT aware of the SATANIC WORSHIP that goes on at the HIGHEST LEVELS… especially ANYTHING ABOVE 33rd DEGREE… (33rd degree is the Highest Degree…but there are many other officers and roles that make up a VIRTUAL “MAGESTERIUM”)

When ANYONE becomes a 33rd DEGREE, he must swear an oath to LUCIFER. He is then given a book written by ALBERT PIKE (who was a vehement racist in the KKK). The book is called “MORALS AND DOGMA”… in it there is express ANTI-CATHOLIC and ANTI-PAPAL doctrines hence the giveaway “dogma”… Anytime you hear the word “DOGMA” you know it is a reference to the “Autocratic” dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church… which Freemasonry has TRIED to destroy…Alber PIKE calls Lucifer “The Son of the Morning!”…“He who bears the LIGHT”…much of this “ESOTERIC” belief is coming from THE ENLIGHTENMENT… beware of the “Englightenment” which vowed to Place REASON and KNOWLEDGE in the place of GOD, and to overthrow ALL PAPAL AUTHORITY THROUGOUT THE WORLD…

NAPOLEON and his FOUR BROTHERS were ALL FREEMASONS… Napoleon once told a Cardinal in the Church that he would in fact DESTROY THE CHURCH… The Cardinal replied: “For centuries men have tried to accomplish that FROM WITHIN THE CHURCH… How is it that you, Napoleon Bonaparte, believe that you can destroy the Church from WITHOUT?”

Obviously this was a rhetorical question!!! So going back to what someone mentioned earlier… You are correct! The gates of Hell will NOT prevail…

I’m sure this is a VERY UNCOMFORTABLE topic for many of you who MAY HAVE FAMILY or FRIENDS who are FREEMASONS, and some of you may be masons yourselves…

But please do MUCH MUCH MUCH research before you make a definitive conclusion that this ANCIENT and ANTI-CATHOLIC religion is NOT A THREAT TO CATHOLICS???

When the Freemasons protested the Church in 1917 (the year of FATIMA)…they MARCHED ON ST.PETER’S SQUARE with signs that read: “DOWN WITH THE POPE” and they had posters of THE DEVIL STEPPING ON ST. MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL…