Do you think God will chastise America for Abortion in the near future?

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I was reading up on St. Faustina and I came across her prophecy that god would chastise Warsaw, Poland, back then the Abortion Capital of the world, for the killing of the innocent. She spent her life atoning for the sins of her country and a year after her death in 1938, Poland was invaded.

This got me wondering, surely America has been guilty of many of the same crimes. Will we also suffer God’s discipline? If so how so? Share your thoughts.
 
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God might be chastising America (plus, the rest of the world) for abortion right now…
 
That’s a good point. But it only brings me more questions. America’s acceptance of abortion is far greater now than Poland’s in the 1930s.

Was the invasion of Poland simply the natural consequence of sin or divine punishment? If the latter would we have an even Greater punishment? It’s scary stuff to ponder over.
 
Julius said:
Was the invasion of Poland simply the natural consequence of sin or divine punishment? If the latter would we have an even Greater punishment? It’s scary stuff to ponder over.
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If you understand the history of that area, it’s easy to see that the invasion of Poland was not necessarily Divine Punishment.
 
A lot of the “chastisement” for abortion (and contraception as well) may be that those people, who want to have more children, who welcome them, and who view increasing numbers of themselves as a good thing, who recognize that children are the only hope for the future, will eventually take over by sheer numbers. The few will be ruled by the many.
 
Julius said:
I was reading up on St. Faustina and I came across her prophecy that god would chastise Warsaw, Poland, back then the Abortion Capital of the world, for the killing of the innocent. She spent her life atoning for the sins of her country and a year after her death in 1938, Poland was invaded.

This got me wondering, surely America has been guilty of many of the same crimes. Will we also suffer God’s discipline? If so how so? Share your thoughts.
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God’s active will and God’s identifiable action in the world are shrouded in mystery. Since punishment is a “result of” some offense, it is really impossible to say “look, there is God chastising us”.
On the other hand, we know with certitude that evil carries consequences for humanity. The evil of abortion will not stand in God’s favor. In imagining God’s response to the evil of abortion, a verse comes to mind.
“What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to Me from the ground.
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What does that tell us? God hears the voice of the slaughtered unborn and holds them face to face. And it also tells us that the perpetrators of wickedness are not in the same company, and will endure the consequences of evil.

The USA and the rest of the developed world doesn’t need divine signs of God’s wrath to know with certitude:
any nation that slaughters it’s own unborn innocents will collapse of it’s own dead weight. A quick review of human history ought to provide evidence of the consequences of mass murder.
 
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goout said:
any nation that slaughters it’s own unborn innocents will collapse of it’s own dead weight.
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I’ve long believed that this is THE foundational crack in American political and social life why we Won’t. Ever. See. Peace.
 
Truthfully that and look at how selfish and hyper competitive our society is. I’ve travelled around some and tbh…is all this stuff making us better people?

I remember a church hymn, “The gifts we have are given to share”. I don’t see us sharing much. We can do much better in many areas tbh.
 
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Julius said:
Will we also suffer God’s discipline? If so how so? Share your thoughts.
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I think we are already suffering from making abortion legal and available. The promiscuity of young people, the brokenness of the family unit, absent fathers, lots of divorce, lots of people living together not married, the amount of people infected with sexually transmitted diseases and the new diseases that are now out there from promiscuity. Broken hearts, broken families, the financial cost to the nation. Who can measure these things? Who can imagine at this point, what life would look like if only 2 people, married to each other, were intimate? That the majority of children had both parents working together as a team under one roof, how would that play out in a nation? We are reaping what we have sown.

Here’s another angle. Back in the Old Testament, we have Moses and Pharaoh in this epic battle of wills. All kinds of things occurred, but the final stroke was the death of the first born. The Israelites slaughtered an unblemished lamb, marked the doorposts of their homes, and death passed them over. Passover. For Egyptians though, their first born died. Soon, the Red Sea parted, and they crossed on dry ground to the other side, and Pharaoh’s army was drowned in the sea.

Why bring this up? Many pieces of the Old Testament point forward in time to when Christ would come. When Christ walked the earth, he fulfilled over 600 prophecies that pointed to the coming Christ. (That would be a fun discussion) The death of the first born of Egypt, Moses parting the Red Sea, the escape of the Israelites and destruction of their enemy, is a foretelling of when Christ comes a second time. Think about that. At the end of time Christ comes and separates the ‘sheep from the goats’, the ‘wheat from the weeds’ as he spoke in the New Testament. Here’s the big question. What happens if the death of the first born of Egypt is happening today as we witness the death of babies in abortion? Is that why the death of the first born of Egypt was written down to point ahead, to this time of promiscuity and abortion? We are seeing the ‘first born’ of those who do not follow God’s law on marriage and sexuality ending in abortion. This has to happen before Christ comes in glory, to gather his own to himself. When all is revealed at the end of time, we’ll see it all clearly.
 
No. I don’t believe in the modern world God “chastises” nations.

People exercise free will.
 
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
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goout:
any nation that slaughters it’s own unborn innocents will collapse of it’s own dead weight.
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I’ve long believed that this is THE foundational crack in American political and social life why we Won’t. Ever. See. Peace.
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I couldn’t agree more heartily.

If you will stop and think about it for a moment, there was a time when Democrats and Republicans weren’t really all that different. Both supported middle-class American values and morals. The Democrats were the party of the working man, the “little guy”, and the Republicans were the party that more favored big business and would-be “social elites”. Abortion was this thing that nobody really “liked”, but was sometimes resorted to in secret, by knowing the doctor in town who “did things like that”, very much hush-hush, and then the sexual revolution (and general cultural revolution) of the 1960s and 1970s brought it out into the open. Before that, abortion was something just not discussed, and it wasn’t a political issue. “Good” girls didn’t get themselves into those kinds of fixes — the rushed, youthful marriages and the girls who went to visit their relatives out-of-state (we had both in our extended family) — and “respectable” married women didn’t even breathe the idea of “I don’t want this baby”. People generally didn’t have clear ideas of what a developed human looked like at various states of gestation. Then Life magazine, God bless then, published those famous pictures of the fetus, with more awareness soon to follow.

Ever since Roe v Wade, the two parties have drifted further and further apart, and have become more absolutist, in their ideology in general, and with regard to abortion in particular. I deeply dislike having to vote Republican rammed down my throat — I actually agree more with the Democrats on non-cultural issues — but I do what I am forced to, for there even to be a ghost of a chance that some restrictions on abortion may eventually take place, through Supreme Court decisions and otherwise.
 
Actually, abortion is a world-wide problem today, but its not something new to humans. Its known that abortion has been around at least since 1500 BCE as its outlined in Egyptian writings. However, its thought to have been practiced as long ago as 3000 BCE. Let’s not forget the “pill”, approved as a contraceptive in 1960, but fully legalized for distribution in the U.S. in 1965. There are a number of people behind its development, but I believe its safe to say its development delighted Margaret Sanger.

Will God chastised the US specifically? Oh, I believe we can bank on not only that, but a world-wide chastisement for this atrocity. We continue to believe that various “disasters” we’ve read about in the Old Testament belonged to those people “back then”, but we’ve forgotten this is the same God, same rules apply. We’ve had the Blessed Virgin intercede on our behalf with Her Son, and He’s obliged Her time and time again. But Her warning at Fatima, and as “intermediary” between us and God, has informed us to heed the warnings. Recent apparitions and warnings have been forthcoming, warning us again that God is very near at the end of his benevolence. I suggest you research such warnings from Our Lady of Akita, possibly Medjugorje and other places. Suffice to say, God will exact punishment for not only this atrocity, but all atrocities.
 
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Julius said:
a year after her death in 1938, Poland was invaded.
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Others may well disagree, but, personally, I am appalled by what you suggest. Are you seriously suggesting that God used Adolf Hitler for the purpose of “chastising” Poland? Do you even know the first thing about the history of Poland? I assume that you do understand, for example, that Polish sovereignty had only been restored at the end of the First World War following 123 years when Poland was completely erased from the map of Europe. During this period, Poland came to be identified as being like Christ among the nations of Europe.

Three points:
  1. Why Poland? Of all the countries in the world that were doing bad things in 1939, why would God have singled out Poland for “chastisement”? You provide no evidence for the claim that Warsaw was “the abortion capital of the world”, and I find it hard to believe. In 1920, the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic became the first country in the world to legalise abortion. That was all abortions, under all circumstances, without restriction, on demand, and free of charge. Why did God not chastise Russia/the USSR? Now, over the course of the 20th century, Soviet abortion laws were tightened and relaxed according to prevailing circumstances, but in the early 1920s, Russia would have been a good candidate for chastisement (if one believes in such a thing).
(An additional point would be, why America? There are 14 countries with a higher per capita abortion rate than the USA. Russia has a per capita abortion rate that is 2.6 times higher than the rate in the USA.)
  1. Why Nazi Germany? If God was going to choose any country in the world to implement the chastisement of Poland, why choose Nazi Germany? A less apt choice is hard to imagine. By 1939, Germany was already well advanced in the implementation of eugenic policies through abortion and sterilisation, and the “euthanasia” (mass murder) programme got underway around the same time as the invasion of Poland. Needless to say, racial laws and the persecution of the Jews (among others) were already in place by 1939.
  2. Wider consequences. The most obvious consequence is that the German invasion of Poland led, within a matter of days, to the declaration of war by the UK and France, thus beginning the Second World War, a global conflict in which about 85 million people died. While Poland suffered the highest per capita losses, about 17% of the total population of Poland, accounting for about 7% of all deaths in the war, it certainly did not account for all, or even most, losses in the war. Why would God chastise Poland by killing 27 million Soviets and 20 million Chinese? It just doesn’t make sense. You also have to bear in mind that one of Germany’s principal aims in invading Poland was the systematic extermination of the Polish Jews, the largest Jewish population in the world. Unless the Jews were responsible for abortion in Poland, it would seem odd that God would chastise Poland by murdering 6 million Jews.
 
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mjc1 said:
Will God chastised the US specifically? Oh, I believe we can bank on not only that, but a world-wide chastisement for this atrocity.
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Word to the wise, we are not supposed to discuss unapproved apparitions (such as Medjugorje) on CAF. Akita is fine.

I have always thought that the United States is “uniquely guilty” where abortion is concerned, because unlike in many countries, the voters theoretically have it entirely in their hands to make it illegal, and to get it stopped as much as you could ever get anything stopped, where people are free agents and will find some way to break the law. That would be a lot of babies getting saved. It would be entirely within the power of the American people, to elect only pro-life executives (such as the president) and legislators, and to make that the “litmus test” for any nomination or election.

The “elephant in the room”, of course, is all of the Catholics who either remain “Catholic in name only”, or who leave the Church entirely. If all Catholics had remained faithful and doctrinally orthodox (and, to kick things up a notch, been more generous in their childbearing practices, but that’s another thread), they would have comprised a voting bloc that would be the ultimate “power broker” in American politics. If you look, for instance, to the 1940s and 1950s, if trends could have continued, we might have been there today. But then, out of the blue (at least from outward appearances), it was as though someone slammed the oven door just as a cake or soufflé was rising — everything cratered, and the ruins we are left with (spiritually speaking) are the Church and American society as we know it today.
 
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I think we are already being chastised by the actions of Donald Trump. He would not have been elected without the blind support of pro lifers. He has run probably the most corrupt administration, and he has failed to run anything like a response to the pandemic.

Much of the impetus behind his election was the single issue politics of abortion that bred distrust for anyone who disagreed. This started with disparaging science to the point where scientists were no longer trustworthy, Environmental issues were thrown into the mix, and we ended up with the mess of people who all think they know better than anyone else if they should wear a mask, if they should own a gun, if they should fill-in the blank.

The country is being chastised by Trump’s incompetence. God may or may not be the ultimate cause, but clearly the intransigence of anti-abortion and pro choice advocates alike have allowed someone incompetent into the white house, and we are feeling the effects of it.
 
Dovekin said:
. He would not have been elected without the blind support of pro lifers.
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What “blind support”? We knew exactly what kind of woman HRC was.

You could just as easily assert that the insane insistence of liberals to keep abortion legal set up a series of events that led to this moment.
 
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
You could just as easily assert that the insane insistence of liberals to keep abortion legal set up a series of events that led to this moment.
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That is exactly right. Not to suggest that there is some sort of “middle ground” on abortion, but the Democrats are pretty absolutist about it, in any stage of pregnancy. I deplored his lifestyle (and abandonment of the Catholic Church), but I will give Pete Buttigieg this much, at least he acknowledged that late-term abortion is a terrible thing. Tulsi Gabbard (whom I supported in the primaries) was similarly willing to concede that abortion rights are not an unalloyed good.
Dovekin said:
I think we are already being chastised by the actions of Donald Trump. He would not have been elected without the blind support of pro lifers. He has run probably the most corrupt administration, and he has failed to run anything like a response to the pandemic.

Much of the impetus behind his election was the single issue politics of abortion that bred distrust for anyone who disagreed. This started with disparaging science to the point where scientists were no longer trustworthy, Environmental issues were thrown into the mix, and we ended up with the mess of people who all think they know better than anyone else if they should wear a mask, if they should own a gun, if they should fill-in the blank .

The country is being chastised by Trump’s incompetence. God may or may not be the ultimate cause, but clearly the intransigence of anti-abortion and pro choice advocates alike have allowed someone incompetent into the white house, and we are feeling the effects of it.
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It’s not the best situation, and I can think of many people I’d rather see in the Oval Office than Donald Trump.

And I know you know this, but the Second Amendment declares the right to keep and bear arms not be infringed. In the 19th century, restrictions on the type of weapons one could legally own were designed to keep black people from owning firearms — make them so expensive that black people couldn’t afford them.

Source: video “No Guns For Negroes” produced by Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JFPO), Google it. This video is entirely supportive of the Second Amendment rights of African Americans, as am I.
 
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