Do you think it's wrong to separate illegal border crossers adult's and children?

[guanophore]

Much of the problem is due to a structure that we have put in place.

There have been immigration problems for decades. While I am sorry about the current grievous conditions, I think it is high time that more citizens became concerned and involved in solving the immigration problems. Until we all join together to fix the broken system, it will just stay broken, no matter who is in Washington.

If it means building separate family detention housing until we are satisfied with their claims, then that’s what we have to do.

There are many taxpayers who are not interested in doing this. They prefer a swift deportation to save resources. This kind of “satisfaction” can take months, especially when there are no documents and no way to verify the identity of the persons involved. Granting asylum can also take months to work through the system. During that time, there are expenses of food, shelter, clothing, education and medical care. Where does the $ come from to provide these things? I don’t see Christians stepping up to fund facilities and provisions, either. There is a strong criticism of the government, but where is the support from those who criticize?

If we truly believe it is a moral obligation to care for the stranger in our midst, where are the facilities we built and the services we volunteered to help them?

Of course it would help if we put more resources into the judgement and investigations so that could go faster. But the administration has made no move to do that. They just want that big beautiful wall.

Clearly this is not a problem we can expect this administration to solve (other than building a wall). They do not have the same values that Catholics do about immigrants. Our president does not want people here from “S***thole” countries like Mexico and South America. He wants immigrants from Norway. (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[mrsdizzyd]

mrsdizzyd:

If you separate them for no other reason than they have presented themselves at a border crossing or to any official requesting asylum (which is their right under US law), then yes it is wrong.

Actually, that’s not what’s happening. People are sneaking over the border with their children, and after they are pinched they are requesting asylum.

US law allows you to present yourself to any US official and request asylum up to 1 year after crossing the border (whether or not you have crossed legally).

If this is unacceptable, the solution is to change the law rather than unjustly and irreparably harm children.

 

[guanophore]

potential of harming innocent families.

They are not entirely innocent, since they have broken the law by entering illegally.

Young children ARE entirely innocent.

Ahh, but now you have moved the bar! If the young children were brought into the country illegally by their “families”, then they are bearing the consequences of the adults who chose to break the law. I agree, the young children are entirely innocent, but, because the adults involved them in illegal activity, they are paying the price for their “family” members choosing to break the law.

 

[blackforest]

So there actually are federally designed comprehensive screening tools, (easy to pull up on any search engine), that are routinely used to screen for human trafficking. None of them require the indefinite, long-term separation of potential victims from their parents, guardians, or companions.

 

[Inisfallen]

The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

 

[Inisfallen]

Ahh, but now you have moved the bar!

I’m not moving the bar. That IS the bar.

The lives and well-being of children should be held as sacred, no matter what the sins of their parents.

 

[guanophore]

The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The it would seem that not sending the children to jail with the parents would be right?

If you detain the families together, they all suffer for the choice of the parent.

If you detain them separately, they all suffer for the choice of the parent.

Then there is the factor that the parents may not have committed any moral wrong (iniquity), just a civil disobedience by crossing the border illegally. That would mean that none of them are suffering for any iniquity!

I’m not moving the bar. That IS the bar.

The lives and well-being of children should be held as sacred, no matter what the sins of their parents.

Yes, you moved the bar. The statement was made about “families” and now you are separating the children from their “family”.

No one has taken the lives or well being of the children. They have been placed in care until the cases are resolved. They are not on death row, and they have their basic needs met.

 

[Inisfallen]

No one has taken the lives or well being of the children.

Of course their well-being is negatively affected. The terror felt by a child separated from his/her parents, a child who cannot comprehend what’s happening, who fears that he or she may never see his or her parents again, is beyond the understanding of an adult.

They are not on death row, and they have their basic needs met.

Talk about a low bar.

 

[benjamin1973]

This is arguably the most ignorant thread I’ve ever seen.

These are not US citizens. Unless they’ve committed a serious crime, like murder, you send them packing, kids and all. Why are these people in jail anyway? For the crime of trying to get into America as easily as all our recent ancestors did?

Hey, if we don’t want them, fine. Send them back. But surely the bond between mother and child is supported by God, and I can’t imagine that there’s anything but damnation for someone who thinks America’s immigration problem is more important than a relationship established by the Lord.

I’m sorry, my language is too strong. This issue really upsets me; how can such obvious evil be hummed and hawed about as if there’s anything even to think about? You don’t. . . do. . . that. Period.

Disgusting!

 

[BlueMaxx]

Long on emotion, short on the law and common sense…

 

[Augustinian]

Why are these people in jail anyway? For the crime of trying to get into America as easily as all our recent ancestors did?

Hey, if we don’t want them, fine. Send them back.

Unfortunately, its not that easy. The current procedure is adjudicate the cases of people claiming Asylum Status before deportation. And that takes time, Benjamin.

Releasing them into the public pending a hearing is problematic, as the vast majority don’t show for their deportation hearing.

And the Flores decision of 1997, prohibits the government from incarcerating the families together during the adjudication process.

 

[benjamin1973]

The Pharisees undoubtedly had law books which they could cite, or the mob who was stoning a woman of ill repute precedent upon which to hang their consciences in doing their evil.

I care little for that. The OP doesn’t ask whether I think it’s legal or illegal according to US statute to separate children from their parents. It asks whether I think it’s wrong.

I think it’s so very wrong that it constitutes a violation of basic Christian goodness and decency, and I think anyone who sees it otherwise needs to stop talking and start feeling. . . and maybe reserve a couple hours to re-read the New Testament and ask what the Lord would want us to do.

 

[guanophore]

Of course their well-being is negatively affected. The terror felt by a child separated from his/her parents, a child who cannot comprehend what’s happening, who fears that he or she may never see his or her parents again, is beyond the understanding of an adult.

Actually, it is not difficult at all for persons who have been terrified as children to understand this kind of emotional trauma.

The adults that brought the children across the border are those that put the children into this position, not those that are trying to protect the borders. I am not supporting the terrorizing of children, of course not, but the responsibility for what they are suffering belongs to those who put them in this position.

Talk about a low bar.

You set that bar by asserting that detention is compromising the “life and well being” of the children. In fact, they have food, shelter, clothing, education and medical care. Yes, it is emotionally upsetting to be separated from one’s family.

If your solution is to keep the families together, then how would you like that to be funded? Are you willing to do some fundraising so that new family friendly facilities can be built? Are you willing to advocate with your legislators for these changes to be made? Are you willing to receive an immigrant family into your home and sponsor them, so that they won’t have to be separated?

Are you willing to pay for attorneys to work with the asylum claims and make them move faster, to shorten detention time?

 

[benjamin1973]

Are you willing to do some fundraising so that new family friendly facilities can be built? Are you willing to advocate with your legislators for these changes to be made? Are you willing to receive an immigrant family into your home and sponsor them, so that they won’t have to be separated?

Are you willing to pay for attorneys to work with the asylum claims and make them move faster, to shorten detention time?

No of course we can’t do that. Then where will we get the money for Trump’s parade? How will we fund the tax breaks for billionaires, a.k.a. the people who matter?

I can’t understand how conservative Christianity turned into such a ridiculous farce. It really is quite upsetting how little people care about the example of the Lord.

 

[Augustinian]

I care little for that. The OP doesn’t ask whether I think it’s legal or illegal according to US statute to separate children from their parents. It asks whether I think it’s wrong.

I’m just saying that it is at least equally wrong to release Illegal Aliens into the American public. Even if they are law abiding, they may take jobs that American men and women need for their family’s survival. And many aren’t law abiding.

Not only that, what does this say to those waiting patiently in their homelands to LEGALLY come to America?

 

[CTBcin]

Because of the extremely complicated immigration process. It’s not as simple as “get in line and wait your turn.”

Anecdotally, a good friend of mine from Latin America who is legally in the country on a visa tried to get a visa for their mother to visit for a week or two, and this was rejected. It’s an extremely difficult process.

 

[benjamin1973]

"He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. And he said: ‘Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me’. . . unless, of course, it’s a brown person with dreams of starting a new life in America.

I don’t think I’ve read this version of the Bible. Are you so comfortable with justifying a legal position in this way, when it clearly contradicts the view of the Lord? It really is beyond comprehension that any good Catholic person would advocate any position but that of maximal compassion and mercy for children.

 

[guanophore]

I can’t understand how conservative Christianity turned into such a ridiculous farce. It really is quite upsetting how little people care about the example of the Lord.

It happened when it became polarized from “progressive” politics.

But Trump does not represent “conservative Christianity”. Neither was he elected due to his manifest fruit of the Holy Spirit. He has never had any use for minorities or poor people, so it should be no surprise now!

He was elected, in part, on a platform of greed. He did assert that he was going to be “greedy for America”, but he was speaking about his America only, not the less than 1% or even 10%.

But it is not fair to blame all this on Trump and his anti- “minority” attitudes. The immigration situation has been broken for much longer than that. It has remained broken for decades when Democrats were in the White House and had control of Congress. Trumps actions have drawn it to a head, and brought it into public focus. This is not a bad thing, as maybe more people of faith can get involved in solving it. The Church cannot expect the government to do what the Church is called to do.

 

[Inisfallen]

If your solution is to keep the families together, then how would you like that to be funded?

The same way any government action is funded - through taxation, fees, etc.

Are you willing to do some fundraising so that new family friendly facilities can be built?

I already am.

Are you willing to advocate with your legislators for these changes to be made?

I already am.

Are you willing to receive an immigrant family into your home and sponsor them, so that they won’t have to be separated?

I already have.

Are you willing to pay for attorneys to work with the asylum claims and make them move faster, to shorten detention time?

Yes. I’m already donating my money and my time and my technical skills to an organization that does just that.

And my wife is one of those lawyers.

 

[benjamin1973]

If you weren’t here, I might abandon this thread, and possibly these forums, completely. God bless!