Do YOU think marijuana use is wrong?

[Rand_Al_Thor]

You’re going to wish you hadn’t said that…I could go on and on…

I’ll name people who YOU may be aware of…William Shakespeare, John Lennon, Steven King, Bob Marley, George Washington, John F Kennedy, Conan O’Brien, Matthew McConaughey, Sonny Bono, Eminem, Jennifer Aniston, Brad Pitt, Jim Carrey, Harrison Ford, Johnny Depp, Newt Gingrich, Pablo Picasso, Willie Nelson, Keanu Reeves, Ted Turner, Thomas Jefferson, etc.

Are they not intelligent enough?

Pax tecum!

Successful and famous does not necessarily = intelligent. Take Jennifer Aniston for example. She does not have the intelligence to open up a science book and actually believe scientific fact when it says that human life begins at conception. Thomas Jefferson grew hemp, but there is little evidence that he actually smoked it. Same thing goes for George Washington. A pipe was found near Shakespeare’s home…that is all the evidence I’ve been able to find.

LSD, heroin, and cocaine all come from natural sources, too. Would you argue that those are all OK to use?

In Christ,
Rand

 

[tcay584]

The list of actors/artists you have provided are mostly a bunch of people I would never consider a role model.

I agree. But don’t you think Wille’s rendition of “Always on my Mind” was great? I’ll give him his musical talent, that’s for sure. Sadly enough, when I sing…cats howl .

 

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Ok, it was in argument to show that not everything “legal,” is good…I don’t know specifics, but I do know Nevada is the only state where prostitution is legal…so if not Clark County, other counties…

Pax tecum!

As I understand it, they have a few brothels that are allowed to be run on privately owned land there. But in the city of Las Vegas, prostitution is a big problem that the police are constantly working on.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[Hippie4Peace]

I smoked marijuana in high school and thought the same as you did then.

Now, I can’t remember my junior year of high school. None of it.

Sorry, I’m not for killing brain cells anymore. I grew up.

Actually, Marijuana doesn’t kill brain cells. Drinking alcohol does, however.

I suggest reading this…

drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

 

[Catholig]

Pax tecum!

Successful and famous does not necessarily = intelligent. Take Jennifer Aniston for example. She does not have the intelligence to open up a science book and actually believe scientific fact when it says that human life begins at conception. Thomas Jefferson grew hemp, but there is little evidence that he actually smoked it. Same thing goes for George Washington. A pipe was found near Shakespeare’s home…that is all the evidence I’ve been able to find.

LSD, heroin, and cocaine all come from natural sources, too. Would you argue that those are all OK to use?

In Christ,
Rand

I do support the growing of hemp though You know for rope, etc. Also the pot smokers’ll think its a great idea till they realize that it is low on THC or whatever - and that it is affecting their own crops…

Catholig

 

[Catholig]

Actually, Marijuana doesn’t kill brain cells. Drinking alcohol does, however.

I suggest reading this…

drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

Hippie4Peace,

when are you going to answer my objections or respond to my comments.

Catholig

 

[lsusportsfan]

I will take a stab at this. For the record I come from a Legal background that has much interation with Law enforcement, offenders etc in this

Is smoking Weed a sin? Well I suppose on some level it could be because it is against the law. Now violating unjust laws is not a sin but one would have to make one heck of a case that this meetrs those requirements Also one must understand that this illegal activity also causes deaths. IE LAW Enforcement etc that often are caught in the crossfire of all this . So that is not good. To be honest for the average user it is a venial at best and to be honest IMHO is less serious than some other venial sins.

Now lets us say its legal. Well, I guess it would depend on the useage just like other substances. I don’t buy all the people who tell the ultimate hoor sotries as to weed but on the other hand the Mariijuana advocates propaganda is pretty biased too. If it can be shown that weed is not a gateway drug(I think this is not clear yet and both sides in this are not clear on the facts) then the sinfulness might go up. Of course other things as why you are using it etc come in.

I

 

[Rach620]

Actually, Marijuana doesn’t kill brain cells. Drinking alcohol does, however.

I suggest reading this…

drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

OK, marijuana use might not technically kill brain cells. But that doesn’t mean that the larger problem still isn’t there.

Pot smokers are typically in some sort of altered state / stupor. The ‘pothead’ stereotype does have *some *origin in reality, you can’t deny that.

Again, are you going to respond to any of our specific comments, or continue to refer us to scientific ‘facts’ about marijuana use that have no bearing on whether drug use is morally licit from a Catholic standpoint? There are some important topics that have been brought up that you need to address.

 

[homewardbound]

Actually, Marijuana doesn’t kill brain cells. Drinking alcohol does, however.

I suggest reading this…

drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

I didn’t drink in high school. All I did was smoke pot…a lot. Yes, that site says it doesn’t harm the brain(though no conclusive tests for either side are really there). But marijuana is the only thing I did so please if you have any other ideas on what caused me to forget an entire year of my life please let me know.

 

[El_Nica]

Don’t get caught up in symantics. Lets just say smoking pot for it’s own sake is not Amoral, but don’t tell us that you are really some how getting closer to God. Jesus did not tell us to go to a private place role a joint and get high, (although that can be fun) and pray. Jesus did not go to quiet places to get high and pray. If you smoke pot great, live it up, but don’t make a big flufy, green calf out of it.

 

[tcay584]

What really comes to mind is the health aspect. Everyone knows 0 deaths have been directly linked to Marijuana…while millions die each year of tobacco and alcohol, which are obviously legal…such a shame.

While smoking pot has limited harm, it’s no secret pure THC does wonders to the body…it widens the blood vessels (unlike tobacco, which constricts them), helps those of glaucoma, it’s even been found it helps with memory, since it stimulates neurotransmitters…which is why many people often find themselves remembering things that happened a while ago, almost with a photographic description…and of course, it gives people a feeling of complete ecstasy, a super feeling which heightens the senses…

I wish more fellow Catholics realized the truth about God’s magical plant, and that it wasn’t so wrongly viewed upon by corporate America.

God bless you all.

Your thinking is skewed on the health effects due to the social stigma of smoking pot. There’s no good research on it. People will admit to smoking cigarettes or drinking, so the effects can be monitored. When asked “Do you smoke pot?”, most people will lie and say no ('cause the next day…you must pee in a cup if you say yes). That’s why the research lags as to the health effects. However, I must ask you…what difference is there in pot smoke and cigarette smoke? Both are plants, both are burned, both contain natural products which decompose upon heating and introduce carcinogenic or mutagenic substances into the body when inhaled. I agree with you about the TCH, but nicotine itself is also a vasodilator, and a relatively neat drug in and of itself. It’s all the other “stuff” that’s inhaled which causes the problems. Heck, pot doesn’t even have a filter (small good that does for ciggys too). If pot is grown in arsenic laden soil…you’ll be smoking arsenic (or eating it in brownies, etc.). How is that good? I’ve never felt the ecstacy you wax so poetically about. People react differently to the same drug. I think it’s dumb to do. I have enough of a time keeping my life in order to add that junk to the mix! I don’t care what you do…but don’t sit there and say “Oh…it’s not a drug”. That’s just categorically stupid.

 

[thechrismyster]

i have no problem with someone choosing to use marijuana for several reasons.

A.) This country, and many other nations are quickly becoming nanny states that enact laws to dictate behavior. which never works.

B.) The ‘war on drugs’ has been one of the BIGGEST boons to law enforcement in the country… thousands of jobs have been created and working men and women are now dependent on their jobs fightng ‘drugs’ to earn a living and feed their families… it would be political suicide for any lawmaker to oppose the DEA or other drug agencies. If pot one day went away… MANY good, decent American’s would be out of a job. so Pot generates revenue on two fronts… it provides jobs and on the back end get’s cash into the economy. Drug sellers aren’t famous for their 401K’s and retirement funds…

C.) The government is hypocritical in allowing me to be bombarded with ads for ambien and cialis and dozens of other prescription drugs that have been pushed through and decided upon with cash bribes, payoffs and junkets at the expense of the grandma down the street paying half her social security check for her blood pressure medicine because the price of these legal drugs are sky high. and drugs by prescription can be pretty nasty on your health… think Phen-fen…

D.) you can walk into a bar and have a bartender serve you drinks until you can’t stand and that is completely legal. a 60 year old aids patient or chrohns suffer can’t use a drug that provides relief because the ‘law’ says so.

E.) the argument “pot is illegal so it is immoral by law” became completely moot to anyone with a brain the second roe v wade went through. Once the courts pulled that puppet show, their opinion went south.

as Carlin said, we live in a nation where we declare war on EVERTHING… war on drugs, war on poverty, war on terrorism… it works, it generates revenue and personal income and guarantees a lot of jobs for many years.

The nanny government will not work. Britain is a test case. watch the backlash. It will provide endless years of entertainment for me.

 

[Catholig]

Don’t get caught up in symantics. Lets just say smoking pot for it’s own sake is not Amoral, but don’t tell us that you are really some how getting closer to God. Jesus did not tell us to go to a private place role a joint and get high, (although that can be fun) and pray. Jesus did not go to quiet places to get high and pray. If you smoke pot great, live it up, but don’t make a big flufy, green calf out of it.

I think that you meant “Not immoral”

As for the rest - I don’t think saying “live it up” is exactly right, but I agree that using drugs such as marijuana, LSD, etc do not bring people closer to god. A person might think that he “experienced” god, however he didn’t. It is the drug. These things are indeed contrary to true spirituality. I’d rather think being raised up off the ground while in adoration of the blessed sacrament, or offering mass when I hear “ecstasy” than some guy sitting in a corner doing drugs.

Catholig

 

[Hippie4Peace]

Pax tecum!

Successful and famous does not necessarily = intelligent. Take Jennifer Aniston for example. She does not have the intelligence to open up a science book and actually believe scientific fact when it says that human life begins at conception. Thomas Jefferson grew hemp, but there is little evidence that he actually smoked it. Same thing goes for George Washington. A pipe was found near Shakespeare’s home…that is all the evidence I’ve been able to find.

LSD, heroin, and cocaine all come from natural sources, too. Would you argue that those are all OK to use?

In Christ,
Rand

Well, IMO, success follows intelligence. Most people will say, oh, Eminem? He’s not intelligent. I disagree…His lyrics may be violent and abusive, but there’s a certain genious behind his songs…and obviously if you came from the steets, and are now able to live lavishly, you ought to be proud of yourself for the hard work and dedication…

Jennifer Aniston, Brad Pitt, etc…I added them because they also at one point, were typical people…and they made it big, I congratulate them for that…(now they could use some spiritual guidance ;p )

Shakespeare isn’t clearly linked with smoking marijuana…however, 24 pipes were found in or around his household…8 of them contained traces of cannabis, 2 of them traces of cocaine, you be the judge.

Thomas Jefferson’s Garden Journal… in it were 3 references to hemp. Two were “plant more” and the third was expressing regret that he wouldn’t be home for the hemp harvest. Make of it what you will.

President George Washington wrote a letter that contained an oblique reference to what may have been hashish. “The artificial preparation of hemp, from Silesia, is really a curiosity.” Washington made specific written references to Indian hemp, or cannabis indica, and hoped to "have disseminated the seed to others. " His August 7, 1765 diary entry, “began to separate the male from the female (hemp) plants,” describes a harvesting technique favored to enhance the potency of smoking cannabis, among other reasons…I mean, common.

There is a big difference with other “natural” drugs. Nothing else is all “natural.” Cocaine is obviously derived from the cocoa plant, but is put through an “assembly line” to get the exact outcome that people who buy cocaine get. Marijuana is the only drug that isn’t. (Laced marijuana is a different story) Nothing else is done to it. It’s simply the plant. That’s the difference. You can grow it, maintain it, pick it, and smoke it. Nothing else.

 

[Catholig]

Well, IMO, success follows intelligence. Most people will say, oh, Eminem? He’s not intelligent. I disagree…His lyrics may be violent and abusive, but there’s a certain genious behind his songs…and obviously if you came from the steets, and are now able to live lavishly, you ought to be proud of yourself for the hard work and dedication…

Jennifer Aniston, Brad Pitt, etc…I added them because they also at one point, were typical people…and they made it big, I congratulate them for that…(now they could use some spiritual guidance ;p )

Shakespeare isn’t clearly linked with smoking marijuana…however, 24 pipes were found in or around his household…8 of them contained traces of cannabis, 2 of them traces of cocaine, you be the judge.

Thomas Jefferson’s Garden Journal… in it were 3 references to hemp. Two were “plant more” and the third was expressing regret that he wouldn’t be home for the hemp harvest. Make of it what you will.

President George Washington wrote a letter that contained an oblique reference to what may have been hashish. “The artificial preparation of hemp, from Silesia, is really a curiosity.” Washington made specific written references to Indian hemp, or cannabis indica, and hoped to "have disseminated the seed to others. " His August 7, 1765 diary entry, “began to separate the male from the female (hemp) plants,” describes a harvesting technique favored to enhance the potency of smoking cannabis, among other reasons…I mean, common.

There is a big difference with other “natural” drugs. Nothing else is all “natural.” Cocaine is obviously derived from the cocoa plant, but is put through an “assembly line” to get the exact outcome that people who buy cocaine get. Marijuana is the only drug that isn’t. (Laced marijuana is a different story) Nothing else is done to it. It’s simply the plant. That’s the difference. You can grow it, maintain it, pick it, and smoke it. Nothing else.

Okay Hippie4peace,

I’m just going to assume that you found your analogy concerning prostitution to be wrong, but aren’t admitting it. And you also were incapable of refuting or responding to my other points.

Catholig

 

[Rach620]

i have no problem with someone choosing to use marijuana for several reasons.

A.) This country, and many other nations are quickly becoming nanny states that enact laws to dictate behavior. which never works.

B.) The ‘war on drugs’ has been one of the BIGGEST boons to law enforcement in the country… thousands of jobs have been created and working men and women are now dependent on their jobs fightng ‘drugs’ to earn a living and feed their families… it would be political suicide for any lawmaker to oppose the DEA or other drug agencies.

C.) The government is hypocritical in allowing me to be bombarded with ads for ambien and cialis and dozens of other prescription drugs that have been pushed through and decided upon with cash bribes, payoffs and junkets at the expense of the grandma down the street paying half her social security check for her blood pressure medicine because the price of these legal drugs are sky high. and drugs by prescription can be pretty nasty on your health… think Phen-fen…

D.) you can walk into a bar and have a bartender serve you drinks until you can’t stand and that is completely legal. a 60 year old aids patient or chrohns suffer can’t use a drug that provides relief because the ‘law’ says so.

E.) the argument “pot is illegal so it is immoral by law” became completely moot to anyone with a brain the second roe v wade went through. Once the courts pulled that puppet show, their opinion went south.

as Carlin said, we live in a nation where we declare war on EVERTHING… war on drugs, war on poverty, war on terrorism… it works, it generates revenue and personal income and guarantees a lot of jobs for many years.

The nanny government will not work. Britain is a test case. watch the backlash. It will provide endless years of entertainment for me.

Many of your points are valid ones, but they fail to address the morality of an individual person’s use of marijuana and only focus on whether the drug should be legal.

Perhaps marijuana should not be as vigorously pursued by law enforcement, but I’m surely grateful that the DEA is working to eliminate other dangerous drugs (cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, meth). Their use poses a threat to the common good; as such, they should be illegal.

I would definitely say that there is a much stronger argument, which I posted earlier, for an individual not using mind-altering substances, than there is for keeping marijuana illegal. That said, I don’t think legalizing the drug should really be on the top of anyone’s agenda.

 

[tcay584]

There is a big difference with other “natural” drugs. Nothing else is all “natural.” Cocaine is obviously derived from the cocoa plant, but is put through an “assembly line” to get the exact outcome that people who buy cocaine get. Marijuana is the only drug that isn’t. (Laced marijuana is a different story) Nothing else is done to it. It’s simply the plant. That’s the difference. You can grow it, maintain it, pick it, and smoke it. Nothing else.

Not really. While cocaine is “processed”, there’s nothing else done to it. Nothing added (until it’s cut, and then it’s just usually acetaminophen, talc, and maybe caffeine, or other **** if you have an indiscriminate dealer). Come to think og it, I recall joints being laced with all sorts of horrors (LSD, PCP, etc). Just like extracting coffee out of the beans. You wouldn’t pick a coffee bean and chew on it, would you? The “assembly line” is kind of like the assembly line used to make wine, wouldn’t you say? Your argument falls flat.

 

[Catholig]

i have no problem with someone choosing to use marijuana for several reasons.

A.) This country, and many other nations are quickly becoming nanny states that enact laws to dictate behavior. which never works.

B.) The ‘war on drugs’ has been one of the BIGGEST boons to law enforcement in the country… thousands of jobs have been created and working men and women are now dependent on their jobs fightng ‘drugs’ to earn a living and feed their families… it would be political suicide for any lawmaker to oppose the DEA or other drug agencies. If pot one day went away… MANY good, decent American’s would be out of a job. so Pot generates revenue on two fronts… it provides jobs and on the back end get’s cash into the economy. Drug sellers aren’t famous for their 401K’s and retirement funds…

C.) The government is hypocritical in allowing me to be bombarded with ads for ambien and cialis and dozens of other prescription drugs that have been pushed through and decided upon with cash bribes, payoffs and junkets at the expense of the grandma down the street paying half her social security check for her blood pressure medicine because the price of these legal drugs are sky high. and drugs by prescription can be pretty nasty on your health… think Phen-fen…

D.) you can walk into a bar and have a bartender serve you drinks until you can’t stand and that is completely legal. a 60 year old aids patient or chrohns suffer can’t use a drug that provides relief because the ‘law’ says so.

E.) the argument “pot is illegal so it is immoral by law” became completely moot to anyone with a brain the second roe v wade went through. Once the courts pulled that puppet show, their opinion went south.

as Carlin said, we live in a nation where we declare war on EVERTHING… war on drugs, war on poverty, war on terrorism… it works, it generates revenue and personal income and guarantees a lot of jobs for many years.

The nanny government will not work. Britain is a test case. watch the backlash. It will provide endless years of entertainment for me.

It is immoral to disobey the civil authority so long as the civil authority isn’t advocating immorality (because then you’d be doing something immoral either way, which is impossible )

I’ll use marijuana as an “amoral” example (I don’t quite agree that it is, because I don’t believe god intends for us to use drugs that affect the mind in preverse ways, and which indeed can mislead). If it is amoral, and the gov’t declares it illegal, then it is immoral to violate the civil authority (which God respects - there’s a passage but I don’t remember it right now). If the gov’t were to say that it is legal, then it wouldn’t be immoral (again, however, I stress that I don’t think pot is really “amoral”).

Catholig

 

[Rach620]

Well, IMO, success follows intelligence. Most people will say, oh, Eminem? He’s not intelligent. I disagree…His lyrics may be violent and abusive, but there’s a certain genious behind his songs…and obviously if you came from the steets, and are now able to live lavishly, you ought to be proud of yourself for the hard work and dedication…

Jennifer Aniston, Brad Pitt, etc…I added them because they also at one point, were typical people…and they made it big, I congratulate them for that…(now they could use some spiritual guidance ;p )

Again, however ‘successful’ these people might seem in the eyes of society, they are utter failures in the eyes of a Catholic. Material success doesn’t make you a good person; virtue does. None of them have been successful at cultivating virtue–and that could perhaps be due, at least in a small part, to their drug use, which must be indicative of their pride and self-centeredness.

Morality is not a popularity contest. Keep regaling us with stories of historical figures who planted/cultivated/wrote about/smoked pot if you will, but it’s not going to change what I think about the morality of its usage. I have presented an objective argument here, where is yours?

There is a big difference with other “natural” drugs. Nothing else is all “natural.” Cocaine is obviously derived from the cocoa plant, but is put through an “assembly line” to get the exact outcome that people who buy cocaine get. Marijuana is the only drug that isn’t. (Laced marijuana is a different story) Nothing else is done to it. It’s simply the plant. That’s the difference. You can grow it, maintain it, pick it, and smoke it. Nothing else.

Since when is it natural to smoke a plant and inhale the smoke? Since when is mind alteration natural?

If it’s so gosh-darn ‘natural’ to do such a thing, why don’t people regularly smoke dandelions or oak leaves–they’re much more widely available. I’ll tell you why–because smoking those plants doesn’t give you the high/buzz/whatever that pot does.

 

[Rach620]

I’ll use marijuana as an “amoral” example (I don’t quite agree that it is, because I don’t believe god intends for us to use drugs that affect the mind in preverse ways, and which indeed can mislead). If it is amoral, and the gov’t declares it illegal, then it is immoral to violate the civil authority (which God respects - there’s a passage but I don’t remember it right now). If the gov’t were to say that it is legal, then it wouldn’t be immoral (again, however, I stress that I don’t think pot is really “amoral”).

Good point. This is really the debate we should be having here. Is the person who smokes pot performing an immoral or amoral action? Hippie4Peace claims it’s amoral, and I’m not so sure. But alas, the merits of my earlier argument as to the immorality of drug use have yet to be explored.