Do YOU think marijuana use is wrong?

[DanteAlighieri]

I don’t have the ratios. I suppose it depends on whether someone is drinking Two Buck Chuck or smoking Maui Wowie. Many smoke for relaxation, just like many drink wine for the same. The amount ingested defines the outcome. Relaxation does not imply intoxication.

Any biochemists here? I think any amount of alcohol kills brain cells, but marijuana does not. That’s what I have read, but I have no expertise in biochem, so maybe someone is better informed?

In any case, it’s hard to get around the idea that Yeshua endorsed the use of a mind altering recreational drug. He didn’t just have a drink, he rescued the party.

Alcohol is not, in and of itself, a mind-altering drug – when used responsibly. Marijuana is. On marijuana-addiction.net, one can find this (and many other) side effect:

Marijuana side effects also wreak havoc on the brain when the drug is used habitually. The natural chemical balance of the brain is disrupted affecting the pleasure centers and regulatory systems. The ability to learn, remember and adapt quickly to changes is impaired by marijuana use. Depression often occurs with marijuana usage, which feeds into the cycle of more drug use to treat the pain created by drug use. This cycle of addiction is very powerful and users soon find that they cannot stop using the drug even if they want to.

Moderate drinking has been shown to have positive effects on health. Although limited medical uses have been found for some chemicals found in marijuana, using the drug recreationally is inherently harmful.

Of course, the same could be said of the pack of Marlboro lights sitting at my elbow…

Peace,
Dante

 

[GreenJeans]

Alcohol is not, in and of itself, a mind-altering drug – when used responsibly. Marijuana is. On marijuana-addiction.net, one can find this (and many other) side effect:

Moderate drinking has been shown to have positive effects on health. Although limited medical uses have been found for some chemicals found in marijuana, using the drug recreationally is inherently harmful.

Of course, the same could be said of the pack of Marlboro lights sitting at my elbow…

Peace,
Dante

“Marijuana side effects also wreak havoc on the brain when the drug is used habitually.”

Do you think we could say, “Alcohol side effects also wreak havoc on the brain when the drug is used habitually.”

 

[DanteAlighieri]

“Marijuana side effects also wreak havoc on the brain when the drug is used habitually.”

Do you think we could say, “Alcohol side effects also wreak havoc on the brain when the drug is used habitually.”

Read the rest of the quote, as well as the article. It’s not just habitual use that is problematic. Casual use of alcohol, as I said before, has been shown to have its benefits. Not so for casual pot smoking.

Peace,
Dante

 

[Sheeniac]

Where does this fact come from? “High Times?”:coffeeread:

IIRC, tobacco is the true gateway drug. D.A.R.E. was based on this, or at least it used to be.

Personally, I think mj is just a bad choice, not a sin per se. I tried it once or twice in my youth, and found that it was not for me. I would place it at the level of crime as perhaps doing 70 in a 55.

 

[GreenJeans]

Read the rest of the quote, as well as the article. It’s not just habitual use that is problematic. Casual use of alcohol, as I said before, has been shown to have its benefits. Not so for casual pot smoking.

Peace,
Dante

The link is from an ad for Spencer Recovery Centers.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

The link is from an ad for Spencer Recovery Centers.

Does that make it any less reliable? It’s not as though that is the only source claiming that marijuana use is inherently harmful.

Peace,
Dante

 

[GreenJeans]

Does that make it any less reliable? It’s not as though that is the only source claiming that marijuana use is inherently harmful.

Peace,
Dante

Yes. It does make it less reliable.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

I think the gospels tell us that Yeshua whipped up a batch of pretty good wine for the party after they had gone through the first stock. It doesn’t sound like he had a problem with addictive substances that kill brain cells .

Not the same thing at all. Jesus also turned the water to wine as a prefigurement of his perfect sacrifice, not so people could sin (drink to and for drunkeness)

“We’ve long suspected that cannabis is linked to psychoses, but we have never before had scans to show how the mechanism works,” said Dr. Philip McGuire, a professor of psychiatry at King’s College, London.

In analyzing MRI scans of the study’s subjects, McGuire and his colleagues found that THC interfered with activity in the inferior frontal cortex, a region of the brain associated with paranoia.

“THC is switching off that regulator,” McGuire said, effectively unleashing the paranoia usually kept under control by the frontal cortex.

That is a far cry from moderate wine drinking

 

[Urf]

Next time we have a baby going through marijuana withdrawal, You come and watch and then tell me it isn’t wrong.
Kathy

Considering there is no such thing, you let me know and I’ll come watch.

 

[GreenJeans]

Not the same thing at all. Jesus also turned the water to wine as a prefigurement of his perfect sacrifice, not so people could sin (drink to and for drunkeness)

That is a far cry from moderate wine drinking

Well, did the folks at the party sit in awe of the prefigurement, or did they chug down the good stuff? How much did he need for prefigurement? Did he have to supply the whole party? Seems like he chose to do exactly that. No matter how you look at it, the story tells us Yeshua was the hero who brought in the new keg when they all ran dry. And alcohol is an addictive drug.

I don’t criticize him for what he did. It sounds like he saved the day.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

Yes. It does make it less reliable.

Please demonstrate how this is true, and feel free to cite your sources. Sweeping generalizations like the above are not evidence.

Peace,
Dante

 

[GreenJeans]

Please demonstrate how this is true, and feel free to cite your sources. Sweeping generalizations like the above are not evidence.

Peace,
Dante

No sources. I’ll stand on my recognition that a company whose market depends on a supply of addicts has an interest in hyping the perception of addiction and the effects of drugs. That’s how they make more money. There is a potential for a conflict of interests.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

Well, did the folks at the party sit in awe of the prefigurement, or did they chug down the good stuff? How much did he need for prefigurement? Did he have to supply the whole party? Seems like he chose to do exactly that. No matter how you look at it, the story tells us Yeshua was the hero who brought in the new keg when they all ran dry. And alcohol is an addictive drug.

I don’t criticize him for what he did. It sounds like he saved the day.

It does matter how you look at it for the purpose of the Gospels is to teach facts essential to following Him. He did not do it so men could get drunk. There is a difference between drunkeness and drinking. He brought abundance, yes, that’s not to say it was beer bonged down.

Again their is no direct parallel between THC and alcohol. Their impact on the brain is very different.

 

[GreenJeans]

It does matter how you look at it for the purpose of the Gospels is to teach facts essential to following Him. He did not do it so men could get drunk. There is a difference between drunkeness and drinking. He brought abundance, yes, that’s not to say it was beer bonged down.

Again their is no direct parallel between THC and alcohol. Their impact on the brain is very different.

OK. I see two lessons from the story. For the religious, there is the lesson of the prefigurement. For the rest of the readers it is a lesson that Yeshua supplied the booze, and implicitly endorsed mind altering drugs.

This second lesson depends on the gospels being an accurate rendition of the life of Yeshua. If they are merely allegorical stories designed to convey a religious message, then the second message is invalid.

I won’t dispute the impact of various compounds on the brain. BioChem isn’t my field. But I can observe that alcohol is an addictive substance that leads to the ruin of many. It’s a drug.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

OK. I see two lessons from the story. For the religious, there is the lesson of the prefigurement. For the rest of the readers it is a lesson that Yeshua supplied the booze, and implicitly endorsed mind altering drugs.

This second lesson depends on the gospels being an accurate rendition of the life of Yeshua. If they are merely allegorical stories designed to convey a religious message, then the second message is invalid.

I won’t dispute the impact of various compounds on the brain. BioChem isn’t my field. But I can observe that alcohol is an addictive substance that leads to the ruin of many. It’s a drug.

Nobody’s disputing that alchohol is a drug. Caffeine is a drug, too.
As I’ve said before – without a response from you – moderate consumption of alcohol has positive health effects. There is no reason to infer that the Son of God was endorsing debauchery by turning water into wine, and there is even less reason to make the leap that he was endorsing the use of "mind-altering"drugs – a category in which alcohol does not belong.

“Mind-altering” is an epithet normally applied to drugs which distort one’s perception of reality – hallucinogens, psychoactive drugs, euphoriants, etc. Alcohol, when used immoderately, can impair one’s judgement and reflexes, but does not alter one’s perception of reality. When used to excess, one runs a greater risk of alcohol poisoning than of distorted perception.

Again, whether or not alcohol can be defined as, strictly speaking, a “mind-altering drug” is moot: any side effects of alcohol use which could support such a classification do not manifest unless one is drinking immoderately, and this is not something Christ endorsed in the miracle at Cana.

Peace,
Dante

 

[GreenJeans]

Nobody’s disputing that alchohol is a drug. Caffeine is a drug, too.
As I’ve said before – without a response from you – moderate consumption of alcohol has positive health effects. There is no reason to infer that the Son of God was endorsing debauchery by turning water into wine, and there is even less reason to make the leap that he was endorsing the use of "mind-altering"drugs – a category in which alcohol does not belong.

“Mind-altering” is an epithet normally applied to drugs which distort one’s perception of reality – hallucinogens, psychoactive drugs, euphoriants, etc. Alcohol, when used immoderately, can impair one’s judgement and reflexes, but does not alter one’s perception of reality. When used to excess, one runs a greater risk of alcohol poisoning than of distorted perception.

Again, whether or not alcohol can be defined as, strictly speaking, a “mind-altering drug” is moot: any side effects of alcohol use which could support such a classification do not manifest unless one is drinking immoderately, and this is not something Christ endorsed in the miracle at Cana.

Peace,
Dante

Response from me: I agree moderate doses of alcohol have been shown to be beneficial. So what?

Nobody said Yeshua was endorsing debauchery. I said he endorsed a mind altering drug.

Alcohol alters the function and perception of the mind. Watch a drunk. Label it as you choose.

One does not have to choose between altered perception or poisoning. Both are readily available from alcohol.

It’s simple. If the gospels are accurate Yeshua endorsed use of a mind altering drug by providing it after they had sloshed through the initial batch… He was just like the guy who drives up wth a new keg after the frat party runs dry. Good for him. He saved the
party when it needed help.

 

[Celtic_FC]

No it’s not wrong. That is my opinion. I don’t do it. It’s bad for you, but not wrong.

 

[guanophore]

Nobody’s disputing that alchohol is a drug.

“Mind-altering” is an epithet normally applied to drugs which distort one’s perception of reality – hallucinogens, psychoactive drugs, euphoriants, etc. Alcohol, when used immoderately, can impair one’s judgement and reflexes, but does not alter one’s perception of reality. When used to excess, one runs a greater risk of alcohol poisoning than of distorted perception.

Again, whether or not alcohol can be defined as, strictly speaking, a “mind-altering drug” is moot: any side effects of alcohol use which could support such a classification do not manifest unless one is drinking immoderately, and this is not something Christ endorsed in the miracle at Cana.

Peace,

Dante

Dante, you are clearly uneducated in this matter. Alcohol is most certainly a mind altering drug. It defnitely alters a persons perception of reality.You are right, that these problems manifest in those that drink immoderately. You can see this clearly in the scriptures. I agree with you, though, that Jesus never advocated the use of alchol immoderately.

 

[guanophore]

I think that Jesus wants to be the one to alter your mind, Hippie. I think He wants you to have your ecstasy in HIm alone. Setting aside the instruction that we should obey the law, and that it is wrong because it is illegal, let me suggest some other principles that may apply:

1 Cor 6:15, 6:19-20
15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? …Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

One principle is the health effects. Yes you have cited some accurate benefits. On the other hand, it is deadly to the lungs, much more so than tobacco, especially since it is most often inhaled without a filter. It also interferes with memory and motivation. If you were sitting with Jesus at a campfire, would you offer Him some? What is lacking from you connection with Him that you need the chemical to get a sense of His presence ?

Paul is teaching the principle of expediency, where a certain action may not be a problem for one christian, but might be fatal to another.

"Only take care lest this liberty of yours somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if any one sees you, a man of knowledge, at table in an idol’s temple, might he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? 11 And so by your knowledge this weak man is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. 12 Thus, sinning against your brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food is a cause of my brother’s falling, I will never eat meat, lest I cause my brother to fall. 1 Cor 8:9-9:1

You have a responsibility to others of the faith. Paul is talking in this passage about meat offered to idols, but the principle is the same. If you feel free to do something that might cause your brother to lose faith, then you have a duty to protect your brother’s conscience.

“All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. 24 Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. 1 Cor 10:23-25

If you did live in Holland, or the US had different laws, that still does not mean that you are engaged in an action that builds, as you rightly pointed out about immoral laws.

31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do (smoke weed) do all for the Glory of God. 32 Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God, 33 just as I try to please all men in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved. 1 Cor 10:31-33

Does your action glorify God ? It sounds like you believe it does. Will it glorify God in front of others? Will you do something in private that you would not do in the fellowship of believers? If not, why not? Would you recommend a new convert follow your example?

These principles are ethical principles applied to situations, also called situation ethics. When we encounter a situation that seems good to us, but detrimental to others, then we can use these principles to examine ourselves.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

Dante, you are clearly uneducated in this matter. Alcohol is most certainly a mind altering drug. It defnitely alters a persons perception of reality.You are right, that these problems manifest in those that drink immoderately. You can see this clearly in the scriptures. I agree with you, though, that Jesus never advocated the use of alchol immoderately.

I think you overstate your point by saying I’m “uneducated in this matter”, considering you agree with everything I said but the general point.

Alcohol does not distort one’s perception of reality; it impairs one’s ability to make judgements about reality, and reduces one’s inhibitions – again, when used immoderately. “Mind-altering” is an adjective best used to describe drugs that distort what one perceives – i.e., cause hallucinations, cause paranoia, create euphoria, etc. As I said above, when one drinks enough to begin hallucinating, one is at a higher risk of alcohol poisoning than anything else.

This appears to be a semantic argument, and is getting off topic.

Peace,
Dante