Do you think priests should be allowed to marry?

[BSHoop96]

Well if your theory holds water please explain then how come all the sex scandals seem primarily coming from celebate priests, and why I never hear about married ministers commiting sex crimes? The evidence would seem to be pointing to its better for a priest/minister to be married.

If you haven’t heard about married ministers commiting sex crimes then we aren’t on the same planet.

 

[GailMac]

Here’s the question I’d like to answer the question posed by sublime prince:

"Well if your theory holds water please explain then how come all the sex scandals seem primarily coming from celebate priests, and why I never hear about married ministers commiting sex crimes? "

I’ll give you one main reason ---- because little Suzzie Q. being jumped by some boy on the way home from school doesn’t draw much press. Neither does the kid who got “turned” at camp. Nor does the press vilify the Rabbi who had a little too much fun of the wrong kind with the children in his Hebrew class. It is a fact that most sexual abuse happens **in homes between relatives **and it is hardly ever spoken of by polite society, much less make it into the newspapers. Catch a priest at it and wham! headline news!

Fact is wherever children are, there is a danger of a predator gaining access, be that school, internet, camps, streets, anywhere. Sexual predators seek their prey where they can be found. The fact that some where found in the priesthood I have no doubt about that. The poor handling of them I think can be attributed to liberalization of practices. If it were a hundred years ago, or even fifty, they’d be caught once and never seen again sent to some obscure monastery for a life of penance and prayer.

Does marriage of other ministers other than Catholic priests have anything to do with the abuse? Ummmmm wasn’t most of it committed by homosexuals or of a homosexual nature? I don’t think they tend to marry. (unless they live an California! LOL)

Peace,

Gail

 

[PaulDupre]

Well if your theory holds water please explain then how come all the sex scandals seem primarily coming from celebate priests, and why I never hear about married ministers commiting sex crimes?

If you never heard about married ministers committing sex crimes, you must have been living in a cave.

Try this site.

Here’s an interesting quote from the Christian Science Monitor:

By Mark Clayton | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.

These are findings from national surveys by Christian Ministry Resources (CMR), a tax and legal-advice publisher serving more than 75,000 congregations and 1,000 denominational agencies nationwide.

Paul

 

[veritashunter]

i don’t understand what you mean… i hope u don’t think i am dissenting… i am only questioning… something i do not understand… What i don’t understand is how the Church can expect a certain kind of man to remain celibate and in the priesthood… when he does not want to remain so, yet also does not want to leave his Church… The certain man i am referring to is: one who is not a virgin, one who is in love with someone and wants to spend his life with her and the woman is devoted to the Church as much as he is… if the priest just wanted to marry some flake that blew into town one day… that would be different… Anyway… as stated b4, i just feel for priests who have been celibate for a long time… and are fighting (constantly) their physical desires… I never knew how strong my sexuality was until i tried to subdue it… through being celibate for years and years!!! It has a ^%#@) mind of its own… :banghead: uch: :hypno: Even so, It probably IS the case that few priests fit this description… so i am in no way advocating that all priests should be married…

true… but i doesn’t the Eastern O Church reject the pope?? Should a preist have to give up his belief in the papacy because he wants to get married?? I don’t know… like i said i am just tyringto understand… The Bible says it is better to marry than to burn… There are priests who get around this problem by having mistresses… and that, in a sense, is causing (as it were) people to sin… him and his woman… True, they should stay faithful to the teachings of Christ… and i am not trying to make excuses… but, well, all i am saying is that no one who has ever tried to be celibate for a long time can say they don’t understand how difficult it can be sometimes… Anyway…

don’t really agree with this last thing… I think it should be changed to neither… it should be a Him Him mentality…

*Dear Distracted:

1. What don’t you understand?
2. The Byzantine Catholic Rite is in union with the Pope (as are many other churches of the East). There are 23 Catholic particular churches in union with Rome…Rome is only one of the 23 particular churches composing the Catholic Church.

You should already know this (assuming you have researched the subject that you are discussing and debating).

1. You seem to be confused…you stated that you didn’t know how difficult it was to subdue your sexual urges. We are all called to a chaste life if we are not married…so is this to infer that you somehow believe that we, as lay people, are not to follow this rule as strictly as those ordained or that we are somehow less copable for our transgressions.

I am well aware of how difficult the task of chastity is as does every faithful Christian. Roman priests are no more pressured toward the sin of unchastity than any other single unmarried (and faithful) Christian. It seems as though your commentary expects that it is reasonable to “lower the bar” in relation to what is required of us all.

1. Nothing is “causing” anyone to sin other than one’s own personal choice. When God spoke to Adam in the garden Adam’s first response was to blame Eve and then he blamed God for creating her. Yet, it was his own abuse of free will that led him to sin.

In the Melkite Catholic Church we abstain from meat on Wednesdays and Fridays. Yet, many compain that it is too much of a burden. In the Roman Church the day of abstinence is only Friday and still…people whine about the one day that they must abstain rather than celebrate the 6 days that they can feast.

1. It is said that we are saved as a group (the Church, the “WE”) yet condemned one by one (the “ME”). *

Yours in Christ,

Veritashunter*

 

[distracted]

*Dear Distracted:

1. What don’t you understand? * i already explained wht i don’t understand…

1. The Byzantine Catholic Rite is in union with the Pope (as are many other churches of the East). There are 23 Catholic particular churches in union with Rome…Rome is only one of the 23 particular churches composing the Catholic Church.

 

[jmcrae]

It is my understanding that only the Roman rite believes in the infallibility of the papacy.

Okay, I think you are confused between Eastern Orthodox (who are not in union with Rome and don’t believe in infallibility of the Papacy) and the 23 Eastern Rites who are in communion with Rome, and do believe everything that we in the Latin (Roman) Rite believe.

In the Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church (that is, our guys from the East) they have married men becoming priests. These married priests are in full communion with the Pope, and they believe everything that we believe about the Pope - ie: they are us - they are the ones of us from the East.

Not to be confused with the Eastern Orthodox, who are in schism from us, and don’t believe the same things that we believe about the Pope.

Does that help to clear it up?

 

[distracted]

there is a special need in them that only God can fill.

I understand that… and never lost sight of it while speaking on the subject here… I guess there is one thing i left out though… well, i didn’t leave it out but probably did not explain very well… I believe most priests can and do keep their vows… but there are a few (hopefully rare) who never went into the priesthood for the right reasons… and when a person is young, the decisions they make can be based on… this or that… They don’t have the wisdom older people have… I know, i was young once… :whacky: :banghead: Anyway, i know of some priests who just stay in the priesthood and keep a woman… because, as stated, they never went into the p-hood for the right reasons… Then there are those who did go into it for the right reasons but then… fell away… I am not saying we should allow those kind of priests to just leave and get married because they probably wouldn’t be such great husbands (God knows…).
Actually, now that i think about it, that is exactly the point i am trying to make: God knows… and only God knows… I don’t understand how a man in Rome, thousands of miles away from this country and many others… without knowing the particular priest and his particular circumstances… and being a virgin himself, can make a decision for that person that will affect both his life & the life of the one he is (legitimately) in love with… Yes, i know the pope is infallible in his “official” decisions… but… well, as stated before, a celibate p-hood is NOT doctrine… If it was, i would not be discussing this issue…
Anyway, i really don’t know what else to say.

And thanks… your comments WERE helpful…

.

Thats what we have to figure out, what he wants from us. Hope that helped.

I thought i had said what i had to say, but then this caught my eye…

This is what we are all called to do - figure out (as it were) what God wants from us. It is not easy… at least not for me… & i believe it is not easy for anyone, really, because God is… *God *and we are not. but anyway, what if a priest seemed to get a calling from God to be married?? I don’t think that is beyond the realm of possibility… (that it really is God…).
Again, i feel it is “putting God in a box” to say Flat out… No, never, priests can NOT be married… From what i have heard, JP II and this new pope have not granted any dispensations for marriage…
I am sorry, but i do NOT agree w/ that decision (though i agree w/ everything else… as far as i can say). I realize i don’t know what they know… & that i have to accept their decisions regardless… but I have yet to hear anything on these forums or anywhere else that has given me much pause to change my mind… I just don’t agree… (and again, i am talking about a case by case thing)…

 

[distracted]

Okay, I think you are confused between Eastern Orthodox (who are not in union with Rome and don’t believe in infallibility of the Papacy) and the 23 Eastern Rites who are in communion with Rome, and do believe everything that we in the Latin (Roman) Rite believe. Not to be confused with the Eastern Orthodox, who are in schism from us, and don’t believe the same things that we believe about the Pope.

Does that help to clear it up?

it helps a lot!! Now i have some “homework” to do…

thanks…

 

[distracted]

Well if your theory holds water please explain then how come all the sex scandals seem primarily coming from celebate priests, and why I never hear about married ministers commiting sex crimes? The evidence would seem to be pointing to its better for a priest/minister to be married.

actually (hope i am not repeating what another Poster said)… pedophelia and some other sex crimes occure MORE with married men…

 

[distracted]

I find evidence saying they can’t extremely flimsy. All other denominations allow marriage.

Catholicism is not just another denomination. It is hte Church Jesus Christ established on Earth… all other Christian (and so-called Christian) churches broke away either from the True Church (as in Martin Luther) or they broke from Martin Luther and/ or from some other break-away (apostate) person/group.

 

[distracted]

I Some may even leave the church because they want to become a pries but are married. So they become a minister in another denomination.

If that person really understood the Catholic faith (…Jesus), he would NOT do such a thing… If he claims to know the Faith and does something like that… well… people can claim all kinds of things…

 

[distracted]

I really think being chaste all your life leaves too much temptation in your life. I think it leads open the possibility for sexual abuse and sex scandals that may not occur if the priest had a wife he could go home to allieviate some of those desires.

actually, despite my disagreement with the pope not granting dispensations for priests (some or all??) to be married… I do NOT agree with what you are saying.

I have been celibate for a long time… Though it has been a great struggle at times (to be perfectly chaste in mind/body)… i can see (have learned through experience) that being celibate has caused me to have a better attitude about sex… how God intended / intends it to be… (which explains why i have been celibate so long… meaning, i can’t find someone who really believes the way i do… Of course, i can’t say i have been “looking” very hard… maybe deep inside, i just want to be alone. )… Anyway.
what i am saying is that virtually everyone should practice celibacy… and even for a very long time… My only problem is, as stated in previous posts… those “rare” (?) occassions when a priest is 1) not a virgin 2) wants to marry 3) God seems to be calling him to marriage (hard to prove?)… and maybe a few other “criteria” that i can’t recall off the top of my head… Well, in those situations, i feel the pope should not be so rigid and seemingly lacking in compassion. If a priest cannot remain faithful to Jesus except / unless he stays in the priest-hood, something is wrong… and if we were never tested… well, our lives would be too easy… which brings up another point… but i will have to start antoher post for that…

 

[distracted]

Please read previous posts in order to understand the context in which i say the following:

There are priests who not only go INTO the priesthood for wrong reasons but (and/or) STAY in the priesthood for the wrong reasons… Ok, so they are still priests… but if they also refuse to give up intimacy w/ a woman… (want to stay AND have a woman)… i don’t think they should be allowed to stay in the priesthood… Do bishops just overlook this kind of thing (assuming they know about it??). I am not so sure they should necessarily be allowed to be married either… No… wait, What am i syaing?? I know they should NOT be… because they obviously don’t understand / want to adhere to the teachings of Christ on the matter of sexual purity…

So what do you people here think about a priest who just wants a comfortable life (nice car, nice home, etc.) as a priest (but whose heart is far from his “vocation”)?

 

[cyberwolf001]

What I do not get is if you want to be a married Priest why not switch to a Rite that allows for married Priests?

There you go married and a Priest with the Blessings of the Church done and done

 

[rinnie]

Distracted IMO a Priest that is a priest and has a women on the side is not a true Priest. Thats just how i feel. If they go through those vows and promise God in Holy Orders (they should keep those vows). Just how a husband who cheats on his wife is not a true husband. I know there are bad Priests, and i know God knows the good from the bad, he tells us himself how the devil will disguise himself in my clothes. I also believe there are good Priests who the devils gets too also. Just like a husband loves his wife and then a moment of weakness, screws it up. But alot of that is why we repent and do better. But there are alot of really good priests who im sure get accused falsely also. like everything else the good pays for the bad. But like Judas there are the good with the bad. And God knows all. I know God knows what priests are going to be good and bad also. Thats why hes God. But there is a reason for Holy Orders and that is it. You are married to the Priesthood, to God, and you vow to him only, personally i can see it no other way, I believe its that way because God wants it that way. Again why have Holy ORders than, Its the Roman Catholic religion, and you must remember to live the Roman Catholic Religion is very very hard. Its been that way for a very very long time. and i dont believe it will ever change. Because once you take away Holy Orders you changed the Roman Catholic Religion.

 

[distracted]

I know God knows what priests are going to be good and bad also.

this sounds too much like Presbyterianism… pre-destination. God only knows who is weak in such and such a way… He does not “know” who will DO this or that… He has given us free will… Sure, some are more psycholigcally weak and more inclined to do something than another person would be… but that does not mean the person WILL commit a sin… Maybe that is what you meant… but didn’t sound right…

But there is a reason for Holy Orders and that is it. You are married to the Priesthood, to God, and you vow to him only, personally i can see it no other way,

As if you cannot be married to God if you leave the priesthood and marry??? Well, then you weren’t married to Him in the first place… if you can ditch him that quickly…

Because once you take away Holy Orders you changed the Roman Catholic Religion.

i am not advocating that all priests should be married… far from it… I don’t think you have read all my posts…

 

[distracted]

I’m sorry but this is just so wrong. A sexual deviate is a sexual deviate whether he has someone at home or not.

that’s for sure. Ted bundy lived with some woman… I know that is not the best example of what you mean, but i just thought of it… can’t get more deviant than him… :hypno:

 

[distracted]

I’ll give you one main reason ---- because little Suzzie Q. being jumped by some boy on the way home from school doesn’t draw much press. Neither does the kid who got “turned” at camp. Nor does the press vilify the Rabbi who had a little too much fun of the wrong kind with the children in his Hebrew class. It is a fact that most sexual abuse happens **in homes between relatives **and it is hardly ever spoken of by polite society, much less make it into the newspapers.

***Catch a priest at it and wham! headline news! ***

You forgot to say WHY… (as if you needed to )…

The liberal media HATES the Catholic Church…

(Just thought i would say that since some people either don’t know that or don’t believe it… or live in a cave in the mountains of Montana )

 

[rinnie]

Im sorry distracted but again we disagree. just because God knows what we are going to do, before we do it, does not take away our free will. I dont see it that way. Just because he knows everything and if what you are saying is true and i am wrong why did he tell Peter that he would betray him 3 times. he by no means made Peter do that. he just knew. Just how he knew what Judas was going to do. Judas still had the choice, but God knew, so again we disagree, The way i understand it protestants believe that God made Peter betray Jesus, just like Judas had no choice. thats not how i do see it. But if protestants believe that Judas had the choice and made the wrong one on his own, and Jesus knew he would, then i stand to be corrected i do think like the protestants.

 

[rinnie]

Also I believe that if a Priest goes into the Priesthood for the wrong reasons, he will fail. Because if its not a calling from God and a total commitment then it wont work. Unlike marriage you can go into it for the right reason, but that does not mean the other person does, thats why most fail, total commitment is not there. But i know there are Priests who go up to the last day, and then change their minds, and thats okay, there is a reason. As far as a Priest leaving the PRiesthood, that is another thing totally. But again if a Priest does leave the Priesthood, and chooses marriage, do i believe that he is no longer a Priest, Yes i do. I believe he gave up that right when he broke that oath to God, the same way I believe that when a couple gets divorced they are also no longer married, they also broke that oath, Whats the difference its still an oath you take before God. Now I am not saying God wont forgive them. thats up to God, thats why we have confession, and we repent. but again a whole other subject.