Do You Think Scripture Supports Saints Who say Very Few Get to Heaven?

[distracted]

Many saints and the children of Fatima claim that very few people are saved from Hell… (One says only about 5 souls out of 33,000 ). One saint said one reason was that most people do not renounce the world…

Jesus did say that to be perfect, we have to give all our possessions to the poor and follow him…
And we have to be perfect. Another scripture says we have to “be perfect as our Father in Heaven is perfect”.
It surprises me that there isn’t much (explicit) in the Bible about being in the Presence of Christ (the Blessed Sacrament). I believe it is @ the Blessed Sacrament (& at Mass) that we get our souls purified and perfected…

I am just wondering, for one thing: Are Catholics required to believe what the saints tell us about their visions of Hell? It does seem - to me - that Scripture is more supportive of what they say than not supportive…

I would like your comments, testimony, etc. to help me clarify all this… Thank you.

 

[Penitus]

Which saint mentioned only 5 people out of 33,000 go to Heaven, and that the rest go to Hell?

 

[distracted]

Which saint mentioned only 5 people out of 33,000 go to Heaven, and that the rest go to Hell?

I read this thing by St. Leonard of Port Maurice who tells of an archdeacon who died and then appeared to his bishop in spirit and told him that 33,000 others also died at the same time. He said that he and Bernard (?) went directly to Heaven, 3 went to Purgatory and the rest fell into Hell…
I think you can find the whole homily through a search engine if you type in St. Leonard/Port Maurice… or you can go to Spirituality Forum here, Response #5 (Post) of Most People Go to Hell

He says (or quotes someone who says that) the reason is that people don’t renounce the world… too much vanity, impurity, corruption… etc… and that too few people fully repent and make a good confession…
Also, there are, apparently, levels of Hell (heard this elsewhere). Everyone doesn’t get the same punishment as, say, Stalin or Hitler…

 

[Verbum]

Hi distracted,

Jesus said that it was very difficult to get to heaven, but he did not put a number on it. Let’s not do it either.

But when you think about it, does it really make sense that God should create humanity and send his Son to save it, when he only intends for a very small minority to be saved? I find the New Testament as a whole very positive and optimistic.

I believe that it was St. Francis de Sales, Doctor of the Church, who actually believed relatively few people are damned. But it could be one of us, so… let’s keep on our toes!!

Verbum

 

[Fidelis]

Jesus taught that few would be saved:

"Someone asked him, “Lord, will only a few people be saved?” He answered them, "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I tell you, will attempt to enter but will not be strong enough. (Lk 13:23-24)

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many. How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.” (Mt 7:13-14)

“You will be hated by all because of my name, but **whoever endures to the end **will be saved.” (Matt 10:22)

St. Paul adds:

“Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor [the effeminate] nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1Cor 6:9-10). This would seem to narrow it way down, especially in our day and age.

It is significant that:

1. Only eight souls were saved during The Flood - Gen 7:21-23;
   1 Pe 3:20; 2 Pe 2:5
2. Only three souls escaped the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah - Gen 19:24-30
3. Out of all those who left Egypt for the Promised Land, only two men out of all those were able to enter the land of Canaan - Num 14:26-32; cf. 1:45-46

 

[distracted]

But when you think about it, does it really make sense that God should create humanity and send his Son to save it, when he only intends for a very small minority to be saved? I find the New Testament as a whole very positive and optimistic.

Again, you are doing what many people do - putting the blame on God for people not making it to Heaven. God gives everyone an equal chance to get to Heaven… Maybe those who really try are given a harder time (it seems…) but everyone gets an equal chance… If a person doesn’t make it, its his/her fault.

I believe that it was St. Francis de Sales, Doctor of the Church, who actually believed relatively few people are damned. But it could be one of us, so… let’s keep on our toes!!

Verbum

I would very much like to read his works (assuming he wrote much)… because i have been reading lately about a lot of saints who say that very few will be saved… like 5 out of 33, 000… In my research, i found 39 saints who agree + the children @ Fatima…
And after all the evil i’ve seen… I usually don’t doubt such a thing…
When we say that God won’t condemn someone because we don’t condemn him/her, we are putting God on our level… and making assumptions about what He knows about a person… and their sins. People you admire do not show you their bad side… So we don’t see it. God knows the depths of our depraved hearts and minds…
Anyway, i have to go… but I am thankful you referred me to St. Francis deSales,someone i’ve always liked… (what little i know of him).

 

[Hellisreal]

I dont think anyone can know numbers of persons damned for an eternity.
If the Church thought so, it would be in the CCC. Its not thankfully!
Sounds a bit like grab the nikes and drink the Kool Aid to me.

 

[Pete_1]

Jesus taught that few would be saved:

"Someone asked him, “Lord, will only a few people be saved?” He answered them, "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I tell you, will attempt to enter but will not be strong enough. (Lk 13:23-24)

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many. How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.” (Mt 7:13-14)

“You will be hated by all because of my name, but **whoever endures to the end **will be saved.” (Matt 10:22)

St. Paul adds:

“Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor [the effeminate] nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1Cor 6:9-10). This would seem to narrow it way down, especially in our day and age.

It is significant that:

1. Only eight souls were saved during The Flood - Gen 7:21-23;
   1 Pe 3:20; 2 Pe 2:5
2. Only three souls escaped the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah - Gen 19:24-30
3. Out of all those who left Egypt for the Promised Land, only two men out of all those were able to enter the land of Canaan - Num 14:26-32; cf. 1:45-46

Was not this under the old covenant of the law ‘which cannot bring salvation’. Christ died for our sins, we are under the New covenant.

 

[Fidelis]

Was not this under the old covenant of the law ‘which cannot bring salvation’. Christ died for our sins, we are under the New covenant.

If you are talking about the Old Testament examples I gave: the Old Testament provides us with *principles *as to how God acts in salvation history. The Old Testament forehadows the New and God’s character never changes, only the way he saves us. If you t hrow out the Old Testament, you are going the way of the ancient heretic Marcion.

If you all talking about **all **of the Scriptures I cited (including those by Jesus) as being “part of the old covenant” you may be slipping into the error of hyper-dispensationalism, where everything up to Calvary was part of a previous dispensation aimed at the Jews and not the Church. I’m hope you’re not going there. :nope:

 

[distracted]

Was not this under the old covenant of the law ‘which cannot bring salvation’. Christ died for our sins, we are under the New covenant.

What are you talking about? Everything (or virtually everything) Poster quotes is from the New Testament, Words of Christ Himself…

 

[distracted]

Hi distracted,

Jesus said that it was very difficult to get to heaven, but he did not put a number on it. Let’s not do it either.

Verbum

I didn’t “do it” - the saints quote someone who “did it” (put a number on it).

 

[distracted]

If you don’t believe in the Catholic saints, please go to this site www.SpiritLessons.com and read what a non-Catholic has to say about Hell. She claims she was taken there, in spirit, by Jesus Himself. I read this book by M. Baxter years ago but that was before i was as devout a Catholic as i am now. I plan to read it again, but when i read it several years ago, i found nothing in it that contradicteds what the Catholic Church teaches or what the Saints say concerning Hell (their visions thereof). I have re-read some of it today and still find nothing conflicting with Scripture or the teachings of Our Holy Church.

** I recommend everyone read this!**

It will horrify you…

 

[Mijoy2]

So Christ died on the Cross why?

 

[distracted]

So Christ died on the Cross why?

So that we wouldn’t have to die eternally. What he went through is what we deserve… and what Hell is like (being tormented by demons/Satan). He died so that we would go to Heaven and the way to get to Heaven is the way HE says to get there. If one reads Scripture, one will NOT find such ridiculous ideas as Once Saved Always Saved… It just isn’t there. You would be a total fool to try to find it…

If you were to find one scripture or two that seems to support such beliefs, you would find 100 that refute it…

Read Jesus’ words carefully. No way does he say Once Saved Always Saved (Matthew 18:23 is a good start… ).

 

[Hellisreal]

She claims JESUS took her to HELL?



Her personal revelations are certainly NOT binding on the faithful, nevermind that she is not a catholic, even if she Was, it is not binding on the faithful.

What do you mean by “believing in the saints”?

I can believe in the communion of saints, and discount plenty of things saints say.

Lets not get all mixed up here.

If you don’t believe in the Catholic saints, please go to this site www.SpiritLessons.com and read what a non-Catholic has to say about Hell.** She claims **she was taken there, in spirit, by Jesus Himself. I read this book by M. Baxter years ago but that was before i was as devout a Catholic as i am now. I plan to read it again, but when i read it several years ago, i found nothing in it that contradicteds what the Catholic Church teaches or what the Saints say concerning Hell (their visions thereof). I have re-read some of it today and still find nothing conflicting with Scripture or the teachings of Our Holy Church.

** I recommend everyone read this!**

It will horrify you…

 

[Mijoy2]

So that we wouldn’t have to die eternally. What he went through is what we deserve… and what Hell is like (being tormented by demons/Satan). He died so that we would go to Heaven and the way to get to Heaven is the way HE says to get there. If one reads Scripture, one will NOT find such ridiculous ideas as Once Saved Always Saved… It just isn’t there. You would be a total fool to try to find it…

If you were to find one scripture or two that seems to support such beliefs, you would find 100 that refute it…

Read Jesus’ words carefully. No way does he say Once Saved Always Saved (Matthew 18:23 is a good start… ).

My comment was not support of OSAS, I don’t buy that theology. My comment was in reference to the idea that if 5 in 33,000 make it to Heaven (or anything in that ballpark), then it would appear His effort was in vain. Which, of course, is contrary to idea of God.

Faith, is supposed to not goe against reason. It is unreasonable to think God is loving, yet created a spieces in which the vast majority suffer throughout eternity.

A theology such as the vast majority are damned, is a theology that directs one to the more acceptable and reaosnable belief of non-belief (or atheism).

If I were to be given a choice, my loved ones have a miniscule chance of getting to Heaven, or a chance of non-existance, I’d chose non-existance. I would be a bad parent otherwise.

Somethin’ wrong with this picture!

 

[Hellisreal]

I read over this link and was not terrifyed in the least. Mildly surprised anyone would find it credible, but not terrifyed in the least.

 

[distracted]

if 5 in 33,000 make it to Heaven (or anything in that ballpark), then it would appear His effort was in vain. Which, of course, is contrary to idea of God.

You say it means His efforts were in vain… So, with all due respect, who are you? I don’t know you but i know one thing about you - you are not God. Nuf said…

Faith, is supposed to not goe against reason. It is unreasonable to think God is loving, yet created a spieces in which the vast majority suffer throughout eternity.

this is your thought/feeling. Again, who are you? You are not God. Therefore, i will not listen to you (alone)… In fact, i don’t listen to anyone… I don’t necessarily believe or disbelieve any of the stuff written here about Hell… but i more believe what is said at that aforementioned site than i don’t because of SCRIPTURE.

A theology such as the vast majority are damned, is a theology that directs one to the more acceptable and reaosnable belief of non-belief (or atheism).

That is their (your) choice.

If I were to be given a choice, my loved ones have a miniscule chance of getting to Heaven, or a chance of non-existance, I’d chose non-existance. I would be a bad parent otherwise.

Again, that’s your opinion/thought/feeling…

And you are??

One other thing i know about you is that you are not a Perfect Parent… and God loves your children more than you do…

Somethin’ wrong with this picture!

Yes, something is wrong - but exactly what??

Only God knows… which is my point. Why take a chance that these people are telling the truth?

Evil does not enter Heaven. Period. (Revelation 21:27)
Pray you make good choices.

 

[curtishouse29]

Even if the number of 5 out of every 33,000 get into Heaven is correct, it is because of free will. It’s not like God is standing at the door of Heaven and saying only the first 5 can get into Heaven and all the rest must go to Hell. Just like it has been since the beginning of creation, it is all about freewill. We all make our own choice whether to follow God or our sinful nature. If we turn from God (or never follow Him in the first place) all blame rests squarely on our shoulders and nobody elses. God bless.

Curtis

 

[trustinyou]

Again, you are doing what many people do - putting the blame on God for people not making it to Heaven. God gives everyone an equal chance to get to Heaven… Maybe those who really try are given a harder time (it seems…) but everyone gets an equal chance… If a person doesn’t make it, its his/her fault.

I would very much like to read his works (assuming he wrote much)… because i have been reading lately about a lot of saints who say that very few will be saved… like 5 out of 33, 000… In my research, i found 39 saints who agree + the children @ Fatima…
And after all the evil i’ve seen… I usually don’t doubt such a thing…
When we say that God won’t condemn someone because we don’t condemn him/her, we are putting God on our level… and making assumptions about what He knows about a person… and their sins. People you admire do not show you their bad side… So we don’t see it. God knows the depths of our depraved hearts and minds…
Anyway, i have to go… but I am thankful you referred me to St. Francis deSales,someone i’ve always liked… (what little i know of him).

DIDNT JESUS SAY HE HAD MANY ROOMS,AND WOULD COME BACK AND GET YOU (US)…ALSO, REPENT AND BELIEVE IN THE GOSPEL?